Matthew 24:34 (Fig Tree Generation)

IsaiahA · Mar 7, 2023

cv5 said:

As far as I know, all regenerated persons of historic pre-mils, a-mils and post-mils views look for the second coming and it is a blessed hope, but we don't know if it is imminent or not. The second coming may be later today or it may be 1000 years from now.

I'll say I do not know more than Jesus did when he said, "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man...Therefore you also must be ready; for the Son of man is coming at an hour you do not expect." (Matt 24:36-39, 44 RSV)

Not only the unsaved will not be expecting Jesus' return, the believers, the "you" Jesus was speaking to were warned to always be ready because He'll come unexpectedly.

I spent years indoctrinated with the 1917 Scofield and then the 1967 Scofield, until I finally realized those annotations were man's idea 'read into' the scriptures, which actually refuted the footnotes. I also began to see the imminent, pre-trib views were an escapism.

cv5 · Mar 7, 2023

IsaiahA said:

Bro....us pre-mills/pre-tribbers have the entire scenario resolved down to every single last verse. No loose ends, no abstruse passages that just don't fit. No speculations. Nope. Just calm assurance and settled faith.

Really, the sublime veracity of pre-mill/pre-trib is breathtaking and utterly compelling.

Everyone else may be confused and speculating. We aren't. We are just.....waiting....

cv5 · Mar 7, 2023

TheDivineWatermark said:

Good questions. = )

I'm going to try to make this post very brief (so I hope it won't end up too "choppy" lol).

First off, I think Scripture informs us that there is a distinction between:

--"a fig tree PLANTED IN his vineyard"... ( Lk13:6 - https://www.blueletterbible.org/sea...planted+in+his+vineyard&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1 )... though certainly closely associated...

... where "vineyard" refers to "Israel" (per Isa5:7 - "For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel..." - https://biblehub.com/isaiah/5-7.htm )...

... so the "fig tree" is [something] "PLANTED IN" Israel, but is not exactly Israel itself (but certainly something associated in some way).

Secondly, the TIMING (and SEQUENCE) issues...

Where Luke 21:32 states, "Truly I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass away UNTIL ALL SHALL HAVE TAKEN PLACE," this "ALL" must necessarily INCLUDE the items already having been spoken about in v.24 (some very "OF-LENGTHY-DURATION" items!).
So with regard to the phrase "this generation," its force is MORAL (not speaking of a particular length of an individual person's life-span, or what have you)...those opposing Christ will exist on the earth UNTIL Christ's Second Coming to the earth.

The one written in Matthew 24:34 (your verse in OP), "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" refers specifically to all the "tauta [THESE things]" having just been spoken of in THIS text... which from verse 4 onward is speaking of the future Tribulation period [7 yrs] (FOLLOWING "our Rapture") which time-period will LEAD UP TO Christ's Second Coming to the earth (the "SEALS" equivalent to "the beginning of birth PANGS" here spoken of, as well as spoken of in Mk13:5-8 and Lk21:8-11 [SAME]);

Lk21:25-36 also fits within that future time-period (and we see again the reference to "fig tree" mentioned in this section).

Whereas, Lk21:12-24a is covering the events surrounding the 70ad events (in its saying, "BUT BEFORE ALL THESE [BEFORE ALL THESE beginning of birth pangs (spoken of from vv.8-11; parallel Matt24:4-8 and Mk13:5-8)]--the 70ad events in vv.12-24a must come "BEFORE ALL THESE [BoBPs]"--and I do not say "immediately before," because, again, the "BoBPs" take place in the future 7-yr Trib period, EQUIVALENT the "SEALS" of Rev6, which themselves are a PART OF what "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" per Rev1:1 [/1:19c/4:1], i.e. the 7-yr period leading up to His RETURN to the earth Rev19)...

[this pertains to the SEQUENCE ISSUES of the Olivet Discourse... some things said to take place "BEFORE ALL" these beginning of birth pangs (i.e. the 70ad events); and other things are what take place FOLLOWING the beginning of birth pangs... so in Matthew 24, the "BoBPs" (aka the SEALS--IN the future "7 yr period) are in vv.4-8, and what follows on from there are the "[till] all THESE things [be fulfilled]" (including the "fig tree" reference and the "know [that summer is] nigh" reference, v.32, then the following verse states, "LIKEWISE, when ye SHALL SEE all THESE things, know that IT is NIGH, even at the doors" (the "IT" being His promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom age commencing upon HIS RETURN to the earth, per vv.29-31... having just been spoken about]

... so where I see the reference in Matt24:34 being primarily with regard to TIMING issues (when SEE all THESE things), I am not 100% saying the "fig tree" thing [tho not identified as "Israel" in particular, but something that had been "PLANTED IN" his vineyard/Israel] is not going to be involved also, it very well could be (and I tend to think perhaps SO), but it would only pertain to the time-period WHEREIN this is being referenced (that is, in Matt24:34 [mentioned AFTER the "BoBPs/SEALS]; in Mk13:28 [mentioned AFTER the "BoBPs/SEALS]; in Lk21:29 [mentioned AFTER the "BoBPs/SEALS"], which are yet "future" [i.e. FOLLOWING "our Rapture"]--and possibly referencing it as commensurate with those "BoBPs" / that time-period [/the Trib period of 7-yrs]... if that makes sense. LOL)

[ugh... I was gonna TRY to be brief!]

That is a more nuanced view...very interesting. I took the "biggest bucket" approach lol.

cv5 · Mar 7, 2023

IsaiahA said:

There are those of us who know better.....

Technological Signs relating to Christ’s Coming are being fulfilled. - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 7, 2023

cv5 said:

I hope that "smiley" is showing the actual word "EAGERLY-WAITING [G553]" !!! (

)... [Phil3:20, 1Cor1:7, Rom8:23,25, Gal5:5]

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 7, 2023

^ AND this word:

"For indeed in this house we groan, longing G1971 to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven," 2Cor5:2 (also used here within a passage also touching on "our Rapture" Subject... though a bit less obviously)

--"For in this we groan, earnestly desiring [G1971] to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:"

["to be "clothed-upon" speaks of getting our "glorified bodies" APART from having to DIE first... this occurs for the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto"... at "our Rapture" point in time (the "DEAD IN Christ" have to be "resurrected" first... for that, and we'll all be "caught up TOGETHER" at that point)]

cv5 · Mar 7, 2023

TheDivineWatermark said:

G553 - apekdechomai - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)

The KJV translates Strong's G553 in the following manner: wait for (5x), look for (2x).
Outline of Biblical Usage

assiduously and patiently waiting for

Rom 8:19
For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.

Rom 8:23
Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

Rom 8:25
But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

1Co 1:7
so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,

Gal 5:5
For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Phl 3:20
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

Heb 9:28
so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 7, 2023

@cv5 , I've not watched that video for a long while (in your Post #40), but from what I remember, they explain the matter fairly well in that vid...

... that is, the SEQUENCE ISSUES in the Olivet Discourse... (which issue I only touched on briefly in this thread)...

... resulting in the fact that there are TWO DISTINCT "SEE-then-FLEE" episodes being spoken of:

--ONE being in the 70ad events (per Lk21:23,20);

--the OTHER being in the years immediately preceding and LEADING UP TO Christ's Second Coming to the earth in Rev19
(i.e. in the future "Trib" years [commonly-so-called]), per Matt24:15,21[Dan12:11[,1]... but see also v.13 where Daniel is told he will "rest [in death] and STAND IN THY LOT [be 'resurrected--'to stand again' (on the earth)]' at the END OF THE DAYS [at the END of the 'days' referenced in that text--which did NOT occur in the events surrounding 70ad... meaning the 'resurrection' of OT saints, which will take place at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth ("IN the LAST Day"--not speaking of "a singular 24-hr day" kind of day, btw... but rather FOR THE MK AGE)]

[ONE takes place "BEFORE ALL" the BoBPs; the OTHER takes place AFTER the BOBPs (and not "immediately after")]

IsaiahA · Mar 7, 2023

cv5 said:

I believe Charles Haddon Spurgeon had it right in his comments on Matthew 24:36 -

"There is a manifest change in our Lord’s words here, which clearly indicates that they refer to his last great coming to judgment: “But of that day and hour knoweth no man .” Some would be prophets have wrested this verse from its evident meaning by saying, “Though we do not know the day and the hour of Christ’s coming, we may know the year, the month, and even the week.” If this method of “renting the words of Jesus is not blasphemous, it is certainly foolish, and betrays disloyalty to the King.

He added that, not only does no man know of that day and hour, but it is hidden from angelic beings also: “No, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. ” We need not therefore be troubled by idle prophecies of hair-brained fanatics, even if they claim to interpret the Scriptures; for what the angels do not know has not been revealed to them. Even Christ, in his human nature, so voluntarily limited his own capacities that he knew not the time of his Second Advent ( Mark 13:32). It is enough for us to know that he will surely come; our great concern should be to be ready for his appearing whenever he shall return. 37-39. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."
https://godrules.net/library/spurgeon/45spurgeon27.htm

cv5 · Mar 7, 2023

TheDivineWatermark said:

@cv5 , I've not watched that video for a long while (in your Post #40), but from what I remember, they explain the matter fairly well in that vid...

... that is, the SEQUENCE ISSUES in the Olivet Discourse... (which issue I only touched on briefly in this thread)...

... resulting in the fact that there are TWO DISTINCT "SEE-then-FLEE" episodes being spoken of:

--ONE being in the 70ad events (per Lk21:23,20);

--the OTHER being in the years immediately preceding and LEADING UP TO Christ's Second Coming to the earth in Rev19
(i.e. in the future "Trib" years [commonly-so-called]), per Matt24:15,21[Dan12:11[,1]... but see also v.13 where Daniel is told he will "rest [in death] and STAND IN THY LOT [be 'resurrected--'to stand again' (on the earth)]' at the END OF THE DAYS [at the END of the 'days' referenced in that text--which did NOT occur in the events surrounding 70ad... meaning the 'resurrection' of OT saints, which will take place at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth ("IN the LAST Day"--not speaking of "a singular 24-hr day" kind of day, btw... but rather FOR THE MK AGE)]

[ONE takes place "BEFORE ALL" the BoBPs; the OTHER takes place AFTER the BOBPs (and not "immediately after")]

It is just a brief introductory message......but with the graphics it is easy to understand. Short, sweet and to the point. Hopefully it will serve as a starting point for deeper prophetic studies for those confounded by those passages.

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 7, 2023

^ "and THEY knew not UNTIL the flood came..." refers to the ones who were taken away in the Flood Judgment (not referring to Noah, who knew and "prepared an ark" and was further told [after having prepared the ark] "[For] yet seven days"--exactly how many, see... Gen7:4 - https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/gen/7/4/s_7004 )

[same with the matter under present discussion, where Jesus, AFTER His ascension and some 60+ years LATER, disclosed FURTHER INFORMATION in the "Revelation" on THIS very Subject (Matt24:36's)]

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 7, 2023

cv5 said:

Totally agree.

I do hope many will view the video, as I do think it likely will aid VISUALLY, in what is being expressed.

Joelightening · Mar 7, 2023

cv5 said:

The thing is......Israel IS now an independent nation. And there is every reason to believe that the "captivity of the nation" of 606BC has ended since 1948.

http://watchmanbiblestudy.com/BibleStudies/HIStoryOurFuture/Ezekiels430Days.html

2520 (360 day) years from both 606BC (1948 nation) and 586BC (1967 Jerusalem). Not a coincidence, not by a longshot.
The precise day for setting the start of prophetic clock is known for the 1967 retaking of Jerusalem.

Start of the 70 year judgement:
Eze 24:1
Again in the ninth year, in the tenth month, in the tenth day of the month, the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Eze 24:2
Son of man, write thee the name of the day, even of this same day: the king of Babylon set himself against Jerusalem this same day.
2Ki 25:1
And it came to pass in the ninth year of his reign, in the tenth month, in the tenth day of the month, that Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came, he, and all his host, against Jerusalem, and pitched against it; and they built forts against it round about.
Jer 52:4
And it came to pass in the ninth year of his reign, in the tenth month, in the tenth day of the month, that Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon came, he and all his army, against Jerusalem, and pitched against it, and built forts against it round about.

End of the 70 year judgement. Prophetic clock STARTS TICKING HERE to 1967.
Hag 2:15
And now, I pray you, consider from this day and upward, from before a stone was laid upon a stone in the temple of the LORD:
Hag 2:18
Consider now from this day and upward, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month, even from the day that the foundation of the LORD'S temple was laid, consider it.

Reading Matthew 24:3 the question asked was what is the sign of his return, the end of the age, and the destruction of the Temple.

Nothing there about when Israel would be a nation again. They would ask him that question later.

cv5 · Mar 7, 2023

Joelightening said:

Somebody mentioned a possible figtree/Israel connection in Matt 24. My post was in reference to that scenario.

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 7, 2023

Joelightening said:

Bear in mind that their Question to Jesus in Matt24:3 was BASED ON what He had ALREADY spoken to them about in Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50 ("the end [singular] of the age [singular]"... when the angels will "REAP"--speaking of "still-living" persons in this context)... and what FOLLOWS "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" is "the age [singular] to come" that He had just spoken to them about prior to the Matt13 passage (that is, in Matt12:32), which the disciples understood correctly to mean (what we NOW CALL) "the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age" which will COMMENCE upon Christ's Second Coming to the earth at Rev19 (what Lk12:36-3,38,40-42 [and parallel] speak of as "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" [i.e. as an ALREADY-WED "Bridegroom" at that point], THEN "the MEAL [G347--also in Matt8:11 and parallel--speaking of the MK age also]"--reflective of what we see also in the Rev19:7 and then 19:9 context [same way])

IsaiahA · Mar 7, 2023

There have been many failed predictions of the end of the world made all down through history. Wikipedia has quite a list of them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 7, 2023

^ and in Daniel 12 (speaking of that same "future" time-period we commonly call the "Trib") it states, "and knowledge shall be INCREASED" (not speaking of random general knowledge) and that "the WISE" WILL "understand" (v.10)--"the WISE [of Israel, per context]" of that future time-frame... (which time-period is FOLLOWING "our Rapture," by the way

)

[I believe the phrase "the WISE *will* understand" speaks also to the TIMING ISSUES spoken of IN THAT CONTEXT, per vv.6-7,1 and others therein (Dan12:11/Mt24:15... etc)--they will be especially equipped to "UNDERSTAND" those specifically-stated TIMING ISSUES there stated...]

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 7, 2023

... via the Word of God

cv5 · Mar 7, 2023

IsaiahA said:

Predictions? No predictions being made around here. All we are doing is observing signs of the times.
Lots of signs going down. Yep. Fast and furious.

Pilgrimshope · Mar 9, 2023

Joelightening said:

Yes

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
( after explaining all the signs of his second coming at the end of the world )

Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: so likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:29-33‬ ‭

However In Old Testament prophecy israel is likened many times to rotten figs that fell from the tree and aren’t any good

Matthew 24:34 (Fig Tree Generation)

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