Matthew 22:37-40 and applying it today?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Saltybrine

Junior Member
Jun 23, 2012
5
5
3
#1
Jesus said unto him,Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I'm wondering why so many in today's churches find something wrong with this. The teaching is basic and yet so very needed to be put into practice in our christian walks in our everyday lives. I'm a sinner oh yes and I repent striving to live right everyday. It's a choice that we choose to obey God's commandments. We don't need to continue living in sin. It's a struggle to Love and to forgive, and yet we as christians are called to Love and forgive not just our enemies, but each other and ourselves. Repentance for the forgiveness of sins is to preached and we live it out everyday. So how's your walk going?
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#2
Jesus said unto him,Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I'm wondering why so many in today's churches find something wrong with this. The teaching is basic and yet so very needed to be put into practice in our christian walks in our everyday lives. I'm a sinner oh yes and I repent striving to live right everyday. It's a choice that we choose to obey God's commandments. We don't need to continue living in sin. It's a struggle to Love and to forgive, and yet we as christians are called to Love and forgive not just our enemies, but each other and ourselves. Repentance for the forgiveness of sins is to preached and we live it out everyday. So how's your walk going?
JESUS said - On these Two Commandments hand ALL the Law and the Prophets.

Thank you for the daily reminder of Who comes FIRST = God and who is Second = Neighbor and who is third = me
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,098
3,683
113
#3
Jesus said unto him,Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I'm wondering why so many in today's churches find something wrong with this. The teaching is basic and yet so very needed to be put into practice in our christian walks in our everyday lives. I'm a sinner oh yes and I repent striving to live right everyday. It's a choice that we choose to obey God's commandments. We don't need to continue living in sin. It's a struggle to Love and to forgive, and yet we as christians are called to Love and forgive not just our enemies, but each other and ourselves. Repentance for the forgiveness of sins is to preached and we live it out everyday. So how's your walk going?
Loving thy neighbor sometimes means telling them the truth in meekness and gentleness.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#4
Loving thy neighbor sometimes means telling them the truth in meekness and gentleness.
Most of the time - YES

Sometimes we need to tell it like it is, when necessary.

From that time on Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and that He must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him. “Far be it from You, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to You!”
But Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me. For you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.” Matt 16: 21-23

Many false christs, false prophets and false teachers out there and even on these forums.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,242
3,582
113
#5
Jesus said unto him,Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I'm wondering why so many in today's churches find something wrong with this. The teaching is basic and yet so very needed to be put into practice in our christian walks in our everyday lives. I'm a sinner oh yes and I repent striving to live right everyday. It's a choice that we choose to obey God's commandments. We don't need to continue living in sin. It's a struggle to Love and to forgive, and yet we as christians are called to Love and forgive not just our enemies, but each other and ourselves. Repentance for the forgiveness of sins is to preached and we live it out everyday. So how's your walk going?
What churches are you talking about that find something wrong with it? Most churches I know of stress the importance of love. The only problem I'm aware of is modern churches that teach love to the exclusion of other important doctrines.

Anyway, it's a great verse and I thank you for reminding me of it.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,098
3,683
113
#6
What churches are you talking about that find something wrong with it? Most churches I know of stress the importance of love. The only problem I'm aware of is modern churches that teach love to the exclusion of other important doctrines.

Anyway, it's a great verse and I thank you for reminding me of it.
Most churches today stay away from adultery, fornication, alcohol, cursing, etc...

I heard a preacher state that if he took over a mega church, the first two sermons would be on the gospel, the next two would be on adultery, and the next two would be on drinking and partying. The following Sunday he would only have a small group that he could begin pouring in to.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
778
113
#7
Love God with your whole heart and soul and your neighbor is a fulfillment of all of God's commandments.

At the last supper, Jesus asked his disciples/apostles, and I paraphrase, 'How can you say you love me if you don't obey my commandments.

Jesus also repudiates 'Sola Fideles', 'faith alone'. He stated, and I paraphrase, Many people will call unto Me, Lord, Lord and will not be saved, but only those that do the will of the Father in heaven.

In the parable of the Good Samaratin, Jesus tells the lawyer that, again I paraphrase, if you love God with your whole heart and your neighbor as your self, you shall have eternal life.

Loving God and neighbor requires 'doing things'. It's not just a matter of 'faith alone'. In scripture, the only time that 'faith alone' is mentioned is in the letter of James in which he clearly stated we are not saved by faith alone.

In the Gospel of Matthew, the 'Judgement of Nations' we will be judged by how we showed our love for God through love of neighbor. Strangely, in the Judgement of Nations discourse, nothing is mentioned about 'faith alone' as being redemptive. Instead, we'll be judged, heaven or hell, on how we showed our love of God and neighbor.

Faith is an important part of salvation, but no where does Scripture mention 'faith alone'. And, no matter how anyone twists it, that's the truth of Scripture, Old and New Testament.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,752
1,577
113
#8
It is helpful for us to compare between the old commandment and the new. The reference to a “new” commandment by implication implies that there was an “old” commandment. So what is the “old” commandment?

The “old” commandment is found in Matthew, chapter 22:34-36, “Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: ‘Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?’”

Now, you’ll note that. Indeed, a lawyer, under the law could only ask Him a question about the law. He couldn’t ask Him about the new commandment; he was unaware of the new commandment. So the context of this question and the answer, both have to do with the law. What is the greatest commandment?

Matthew 22:37-40 “Jesus replied: ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.’” (Inserted-Matthew 22:37-40)

His answer, summarized the teachings of the Law and the Prophets and in this, His answer is solidly to be found in the Law. This is the very thing that is to be replaced. But today most people think if you keep the 10 commandments and if you love your neighbor as yourself then you have done everything that God could have required. Now if you look at these two commandments you will immediately observe that they are foundationally different. Why? Because the standard is different.

In the first case the “new” commandment has this as the standard: “…as I have loved you, so you should love one another.” The “old” commandment has this: “With all of your capacity to love so you should love God and so you should love one another.” Well you will notice that the standard of the “old” commandment is, of course, appropriate for the Law because the Law can only require you to do as much as it is possible for you to do. Objectively and theoretically it is possible to keep the Law because it does not require any more than all that you are capable of doing. It doesn’t say, “All that you feel like doing,” nor does it say, “All that you want to do.” It says, “All that you are capable of doing.” So when the Law says, “Love the Lord your God with all of your heart...” all of your heart means all of the capacity that lies within you to do. All, in fact, means all. It doesn’t say, “All that you want to do, all that you feel like doing, all that on certain occasions you may be inclined to do.” No, it requires all. So in that sense, the Law and the standard of the Law is not haphazard but it does point out that it is all that is humanly possible. Furthermore, the Law was designed to keep the Jews alive. God could not ask a man to give up his own life under the Law. There was no promise of a new life in the Law. To ask a man to give up his life would be to make the Law unrighteous. A man cannot give up his own life and simultaneously keep his life.

The standard is appropriate for the Law because if the Law asks of anyone more than all then by the existence of the Law you’ve been made lawless. In other words: if it is all plus 10% then the Law makes you lawless because it has exceeded your capacity to respond. But the Law begins and ends with what you can do. And it has a lesser standard for loving your neighbor. Its objective standard regarding loving God is all that you are capable of doing. Its lesser standard in regards to loving your neighbor is, “…as you love yourself.” The presumption is that you love yourself pretty thoroughly. Now what if you didn’t love yourself? The Law simply requires you to love your neighbor in the same fashion, to the same extent.

What is the standard of the new and how is that different? The standard of the new is: “…as I have loved you.”Who is the “I” that is the measurement of this standard? The “I”, of course, is Christ, the one speaking. He is also the Living God. So the standard is: as Jesus has loved us so we are to love one another. Now what if you don’t love yourself? Well that is an irrelevant standard. He didn’t say, “as you love your neighbor, so you should love one another…” or “as I have occasionally loved you so you must love each other.” “As I have loved you” means “I, as God, have loved you perfectly; therefore I require you to love as God loves.” This is a fascinating standard because it’s the same standard for God as it is for man. The standard of love is the same for God as it is for man. That standard of the new commandment makes God and man equal on the matter of love. That’s an incredible observation. On the matter of love, God and man are equal.

Now don’t take my observation for that. Look at this: this is from Matthew5:48, Jesus is speaking. Now this verse of Scripture is very troubling. Matthew 5:48 says, “Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” What we’ve done is we’ve read that verse out of its context and we have inferred meanings to it that it does not mean. For example we’ve inferred that it means “be perfect in power” and so people come up with thoughts like, “if you’re not healed it’s your fault; you don’t have enough faith, you do not exercise enough power.” So if things go badly it’s your fault. God has given you all power, God has given you all faith, and so on, and if you do these things less than perfectly then it is your fault. Well that’s garbage because God would not require us to be perfect in power, whatever power we have is His power given to us, and no one is made "all powerful". Therefore we could only operate in whatever measures of power He has given us. This Scripture is not about being perfect in power; it’s about being perfect in love.

Note the context: jump back to verse 43 “‘You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies…” (so the context is love) “..and pray for those who persecute you…” Now why should you do that and how is this different? You must do that so that you can be sons of your Father in heaven, "..that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.” It means that just as natural children resemble their natural parents and the nature of natural children is like the nature of their natural parents, so the nature of the children of God is like the God Who is perfect in love. So it’s not surprising to us that the same standard would apply to God as would apply to us… in the matter of love. So that you will be as sons of your Father in heaven.

And then He gives us some examples of how he loves His enemies and does good for those who persecute Him. “He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous…”. Then He contrasts and He says, “If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even the pagans do that?” In short, to be like your Father in heaven it means that you do not simply love your enemies as you love yourselves or you love your neighbor as yourself; it is that you would love your enemy by preferring them over your own life and in that sense, and within that context it says, “Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

The “old” commandment, under the Law, basically required you to love the extent of your capacity to love… love God as much as you are able and to love your neighbor as you are inclined to love yourself. That’s the “old” commandment. The “new” commandment says, “…as I have loved you.” And it establishes Christ as the standard for love. Christ being the Living God, the standard is the same for God as the standard is for man. Now the reason why the standard is the same is because, according to 2 Peter 1:4, the intent of God is that we be made to be partakers of the divine nature…"

“Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.” and "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of His nature..."

The divine nature, the nature of God, is to love and to love perfectly; to love by preferring the life of another over your own life, to give up your life to God so that God would live through you. Now what’s left unanswered for us is: why? And furthermore, how does this prepare us to overcome the evil one?

Revelation 12:11 “They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.”) In this respect we are meant to be exactly as God—perfect in love—the same standard that applies to God applies to us and this is the measure that displays the reality that we are partakers of the divine nature.

By this it is abundantly clear that the “new” commandment is not simply the “old” commandment rehashed. It has the elements of a totally different standard, the same standard for God and man.
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
#9
It is helpful for us to compare between the old commandment and the new. The reference to a “new” commandment by implication implies that there was an “old” commandment. So what is the “old” commandment?

The “old” commandment is found in Matthew, chapter 22:34-36, “Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: ‘Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?’”

Now, you’ll note that. Indeed, a lawyer, under the law could only ask Him a question about the law. He couldn’t ask Him about the new commandment; he was unaware of the new commandment. So the context of this question and the answer, both have to do with the law. What is the greatest commandment?

Matthew 22:37-40 “Jesus replied: ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.’” (Inserted-Matthew 22:37-40)

His answer, summarized the teachings of the Law and the Prophets and in this, His answer is solidly to be found in the Law. This is the very thing that is to be replaced. But today most people think if you keep the 10 commandments and if you love your neighbor as yourself then you have done everything that God could have required. Now if you look at these two commandments you will immediately observe that they are foundationally different. Why? Because the standard is different.

In the first case the “new” commandment has this as the standard: “…as I have loved you, so you should love one another.” The “old” commandment has this: “With all of your capacity to love so you should love God and so you should love one another.” Well you will notice that the standard of the “old” commandment is, of course, appropriate for the Law because the Law can only require you to do as much as it is possible for you to do. Objectively and theoretically it is possible to keep the Law because it does not require any more than all that you are capable of doing. It doesn’t say, “All that you feel like doing,” nor does it say, “All that you want to do.” It says, “All that you are capable of doing.” So when the Law says, “Love the Lord your God with all of your heart...” all of your heart means all of the capacity that lies within you to do. All, in fact, means all. It doesn’t say, “All that you want to do, all that you feel like doing, all that on certain occasions you may be inclined to do.” No, it requires all. So in that sense, the Law and the standard of the Law is not haphazard but it does point out that it is all that is humanly possible. Furthermore, the Law was designed to keep the Jews alive. God could not ask a man to give up his own life under the Law. There was no promise of a new life in the Law. To ask a man to give up his life would be to make the Law unrighteous. A man cannot give up his own life and simultaneously keep his life.

The standard is appropriate for the Law because if the Law asks of anyone more than all then by the existence of the Law you’ve been made lawless. In other words: if it is all plus 10% then the Law makes you lawless because it has exceeded your capacity to respond. But the Law begins and ends with what you can do. And it has a lesser standard for loving your neighbor. Its objective standard regarding loving God is all that you are capable of doing. Its lesser standard in regards to loving your neighbor is, “…as you love yourself.” The presumption is that you love yourself pretty thoroughly. Now what if you didn’t love yourself? The Law simply requires you to love your neighbor in the same fashion, to the same extent.

What is the standard of the new and how is that different? The standard of the new is: “…as I have loved you.”Who is the “I” that is the measurement of this standard? The “I”, of course, is Christ, the one speaking. He is also the Living God. So the standard is: as Jesus has loved us so we are to love one another. Now what if you don’t love yourself? Well that is an irrelevant standard. He didn’t say, “as you love your neighbor, so you should love one another…” or “as I have occasionally loved you so you must love each other.” “As I have loved you” means “I, as God, have loved you perfectly; therefore I require you to love as God loves.” This is a fascinating standard because it’s the same standard for God as it is for man. The standard of love is the same for God as it is for man. That standard of the new commandment makes God and man equal on the matter of love. That’s an incredible observation. On the matter of love, God and man are equal.

Now don’t take my observation for that. Look at this: this is from Matthew5:48, Jesus is speaking. Now this verse of Scripture is very troubling. Matthew 5:48 says, “Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” What we’ve done is we’ve read that verse out of its context and we have inferred meanings to it that it does not mean. For example we’ve inferred that it means “be perfect in power” and so people come up with thoughts like, “if you’re not healed it’s your fault; you don’t have enough faith, you do not exercise enough power.” So if things go badly it’s your fault. God has given you all power, God has given you all faith, and so on, and if you do these things less than perfectly then it is your fault. Well that’s garbage because God would not require us to be perfect in power, whatever power we have is His power given to us, and no one is made "all powerful". Therefore we could only operate in whatever measures of power He has given us. This Scripture is not about being perfect in power; it’s about being perfect in love.

Note the context: jump back to verse 43 “‘You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies…” (so the context is love) “..and pray for those who persecute you…” Now why should you do that and how is this different? You must do that so that you can be sons of your Father in heaven, "..that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.” It means that just as natural children resemble their natural parents and the nature of natural children is like the nature of their natural parents, so the nature of the children of God is like the God Who is perfect in love. So it’s not surprising to us that the same standard would apply to God as would apply to us… in the matter of love. So that you will be as sons of your Father in heaven.

And then He gives us some examples of how he loves His enemies and does good for those who persecute Him. “He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous…”. Then He contrasts and He says, “If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even the pagans do that?” In short, to be like your Father in heaven it means that you do not simply love your enemies as you love yourselves or you love your neighbor as yourself; it is that you would love your enemy by preferring them over your own life and in that sense, and within that context it says, “Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

The “old” commandment, under the Law, basically required you to love the extent of your capacity to love… love God as much as you are able and to love your neighbor as you are inclined to love yourself. That’s the “old” commandment. The “new” commandment says, “…as I have loved you.” And it establishes Christ as the standard for love. Christ being the Living God, the standard is the same for God as the standard is for man. Now the reason why the standard is the same is because, according to 2 Peter 1:4, the intent of God is that we be made to be partakers of the divine nature…"

“Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.” and "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of His nature..."

The divine nature, the nature of God, is to love and to love perfectly; to love by preferring the life of another over your own life, to give up your life to God so that God would live through you. Now what’s left unanswered for us is: why? And furthermore, how does this prepare us to overcome the evil one?

Revelation 12:11 “They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.”) In this respect we are meant to be exactly as God—perfect in love—the same standard that applies to God applies to us and this is the measure that displays the reality that we are partakers of the divine nature.

By this it is abundantly clear that the “new” commandment is not simply the “old” commandment rehashed. It has the elements of a totally different standard, the same standard for God and man.
I always thought shall love god with,,,was a future tense prophecy.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
2,082
1,329
113
#10
Well...@Aaron56 I read about half of that (might read the rest later) but I'm impressed. This is actually a "modifier" that I appear to have missed regarding the greatest commandment. Pretty confident it's in Deuteronomy but you added the modifier in way that makes sense to me.

Modifier as in "Jesus modified this"...like with "you have heard it said thou shalt not commit adultery but I say..." This commandment is taken a step further as it continues on.

I've also gotten "hung up on" the "but what if I don't really love me very much?" and yet still it usually enters into the equation that what you receive you pour out (Christ to me)...so I guess it's "preceptually" (line upon line) in play in my walk already but you made it a little clearer on how it was modified with Jesus' words in a different way that has been helpful.



When I say to pour out what love I receive I don't mean mere modeling from scripture and MY take on what form my love should take...but more of his love being worked out in me and I just love people where I am at any given moment and not complicate it overmuch with conjecture.

Thanks for helping me unlock things a bit more ha.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
2,082
1,329
113
#11
By this it is abundantly clear that the “new” commandment is not simply the “old” commandment rehashed. It has the elements of a totally different standard, the same standard for God and man.
I'm not sure why I can't mention you in a comment but see my post above...

I'm not sure I completely agree about the confines of the law being "self-effort" alone as all that is requisite and I don't want to get this thread off-topic but certainly because of the Word being made flesh and having his example and with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, things are clearer and we are accountable to this clearer standard.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,668
6,857
113
#12
I'm a sinner oh yes and I repent striving to live right everyday
FYI: If you can claim to be a blood bought, born again follower of Jesus, you are NOT a "sinner." A sinner is one STILL living in sin without the salvation the precious blood of Jesus provides for all who call on His Name.

(just saying)
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,752
1,577
113
#13
I'm not sure why I can't mention you in a comment but see my post above...

I'm not sure I completely agree about the confines of the law being "self-effort" alone as all that is requisite and I don't want to get this thread off-topic but certainly because of the Word being made flesh and having his example and with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, things are clearer and we are accountable to this clearer standard.
I’ve written about this too. To summarize: the Law was given because of transgressions, because of the weakness of man. It would have never been given had the people at Sinai agreed to go into the presence of God. Instead, they sent Moses.

Furthermore, God’s original intent was to create a nation of priests and kings, holy kings: the whole nation as the administrators of His plan. Under the Law, only 1/12th of the people became the administrators. As members of Christ’s body, to hold ourselves to the requirement of the Law puts Christ back under the Law. Actually, He will not go there, so, we will be left to fulfill the requirements on our own strength.

Our standard, for those in Christ, is Christ. Our guide is the Spirit of God.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#14
Love God with your whole heart and soul and your neighbor is a fulfillment of all of God's commandments.

At the last supper, Jesus asked his disciples/apostles, and I paraphrase, 'How can you say you love me if you don't obey my commandments.

Jesus also repudiates 'Sola Fideles', 'faith alone'. He stated, and I paraphrase, Many people will call unto Me, Lord, Lord and will not be saved, but only those that do the will of the Father in heaven.

In the parable of the Good Samaratin, Jesus tells the lawyer that, again I paraphrase, if you love God with your whole heart and your neighbor as your self, you shall have eternal life.

Loving God and neighbor requires 'doing things'. It's not just a matter of 'faith alone'. In scripture, the only time that 'faith alone' is mentioned is in the letter of James in which he clearly stated we are not saved by faith alone.

In the Gospel of Matthew, the 'Judgement of Nations' we will be judged by how we showed our love for God through love of neighbor. Strangely, in the Judgement of Nations discourse, nothing is mentioned about 'faith alone' as being redemptive. Instead, we'll be judged, heaven or hell, on how we showed our love of God and neighbor.

Faith is an important part of salvation, but no where does Scripture mention 'faith alone'. And, no matter how anyone twists it, that's the truth of Scripture, Old and New Testament.
You said "Instead, we'll be judged, heaven or hell, on how we showed our love of God and neighbor."

This is salvation by works which is not the Way to God.

You show your love to God by faith in Him and His word - the works follow that faith - you have it in reverse.

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,772
624
113
#15
Jesus said unto him,Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I'm wondering why so many in today's churches find something wrong with this. The teaching is basic and yet so very needed to be put into practice in our christian walks in our everyday lives. I'm a sinner oh yes and I repent striving to live right everyday. It's a choice that we choose to obey God's commandments. We don't need to continue living in sin. It's a struggle to Love and to forgive, and yet we as christians are called to Love and forgive not just our enemies, but each other and ourselves. Repentance for the forgiveness of sins is to preached and we live it out everyday. So how's your walk going?
Gonna go a different route. I love my wife with all my heart yet some ways I do not. I try to do everything that makes her happy as Christ does for me. Yet I do not love Him with all my heart. I know the words speak them yet.. what does my life show. Do I know what makes Him happy? Its not just OBEY OR ELSE lol. Not like that at all. Do we ever take the time to know Him? What are you thinking about.. what do you want to do.. silly yet He cares.. talks more then we do. I really am thinking like this now. Didn't want to just brush over.. praise GOD amen thank you kind of thing.

Do we take the time to really think what love the lord your God with all your heart with our your soul and mind means.
 

Justified

Active member
Jul 13, 2021
194
74
28
#16
FYI: If you can claim to be a blood bought, born again follower of Jesus, you are NOT a "sinner." A sinner is one STILL living in sin without the salvation the precious blood of Jesus provides for all who call on His Name.

(just saying)
Read Rom 7:1-25 and note the change in the tense used by Paul.

Paul has been describing a past experience {Rom 7:7-13} in his life using the imperfect and aorist tenses. In relating his personal experience {Rom_7:14-25} Paul consistently uses the present tense to describe an experience he had since he was born again ~ namely, the conflict between the two natures and the impossibility of finding deliverance from the power of indwelling sin through his own strength.

So did Paul consider himself a sinner, I think so. Although a saved one.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,022
4,441
113
#17
At the last supper, Jesus asked his disciples/apostles, and I paraphrase, 'How can you say you love me if you don't obey my commandments.
Any Bible verses for the above?
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#18
It is helpful for us to compare between the old commandment and the new. The reference to a “new” commandment by implication implies that there was an “old” commandment. So what is the “old” commandment?

The “old” commandment is found in Matthew, chapter 22:34-36, “Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: ‘Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?’”

Now, you’ll note that. Indeed, a lawyer, under the law could only ask Him a question about the law. He couldn’t ask Him about the new commandment; he was unaware of the new commandment. So the context of this question and the answer, both have to do with the law. What is the greatest commandment?

Matthew 22:37-40 “Jesus replied: ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.’” (Inserted-Matthew 22:37-40)

His answer, summarized the teachings of the Law and the Prophets and in this, His answer is solidly to be found in the Law. This is the very thing that is to be replaced. But today most people think if you keep the 10 commandments and if you love your neighbor as yourself then you have done everything that God could have required. Now if you look at these two commandments you will immediately observe that they are foundationally different. Why? Because the standard is different.

In the first case the “new” commandment has this as the standard: “…as I have loved you, so you should love one another.” The “old” commandment has this: “With all of your capacity to love so you should love God and so you should love one another.” Well you will notice that the standard of the “old” commandment is, of course, appropriate for the Law because the Law can only require you to do as much as it is possible for you to do. Objectively and theoretically it is possible to keep the Law because it does not require any more than all that you are capable of doing. It doesn’t say, “All that you feel like doing,” nor does it say, “All that you want to do.” It says, “All that you are capable of doing.” So when the Law says, “Love the Lord your God with all of your heart...” all of your heart means all of the capacity that lies within you to do. All, in fact, means all. It doesn’t say, “All that you want to do, all that you feel like doing, all that on certain occasions you may be inclined to do.” No, it requires all. So in that sense, the Law and the standard of the Law is not haphazard but it does point out that it is all that is humanly possible. Furthermore, the Law was designed to keep the Jews alive. God could not ask a man to give up his own life under the Law. There was no promise of a new life in the Law. To ask a man to give up his life would be to make the Law unrighteous. A man cannot give up his own life and simultaneously keep his life.

The standard is appropriate for the Law because if the Law asks of anyone more than all then by the existence of the Law you’ve been made lawless. In other words: if it is all plus 10% then the Law makes you lawless because it has exceeded your capacity to respond. But the Law begins and ends with what you can do. And it has a lesser standard for loving your neighbor. Its objective standard regarding loving God is all that you are capable of doing. Its lesser standard in regards to loving your neighbor is, “…as you love yourself.” The presumption is that you love yourself pretty thoroughly. Now what if you didn’t love yourself? The Law simply requires you to love your neighbor in the same fashion, to the same extent.

What is the standard of the new and how is that different? The standard of the new is: “…as I have loved you.”Who is the “I” that is the measurement of this standard? The “I”, of course, is Christ, the one speaking. He is also the Living God. So the standard is: as Jesus has loved us so we are to love one another. Now what if you don’t love yourself? Well that is an irrelevant standard. He didn’t say, “as you love your neighbor, so you should love one another…” or “as I have occasionally loved you so you must love each other.” “As I have loved you” means “I, as God, have loved you perfectly; therefore I require you to love as God loves.” This is a fascinating standard because it’s the same standard for God as it is for man. The standard of love is the same for God as it is for man. That standard of the new commandment makes God and man equal on the matter of love. That’s an incredible observation. On the matter of love, God and man are equal.

Now don’t take my observation for that. Look at this: this is from Matthew5:48, Jesus is speaking. Now this verse of Scripture is very troubling. Matthew 5:48 says, “Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” What we’ve done is we’ve read that verse out of its context and we have inferred meanings to it that it does not mean. For example we’ve inferred that it means “be perfect in power” and so people come up with thoughts like, “if you’re not healed it’s your fault; you don’t have enough faith, you do not exercise enough power.” So if things go badly it’s your fault. God has given you all power, God has given you all faith, and so on, and if you do these things less than perfectly then it is your fault. Well that’s garbage because God would not require us to be perfect in power, whatever power we have is His power given to us, and no one is made "all powerful". Therefore we could only operate in whatever measures of power He has given us. This Scripture is not about being perfect in power; it’s about being perfect in love.

Note the context: jump back to verse 43 “‘You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies…” (so the context is love) “..and pray for those who persecute you…” Now why should you do that and how is this different? You must do that so that you can be sons of your Father in heaven, "..that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.” It means that just as natural children resemble their natural parents and the nature of natural children is like the nature of their natural parents, so the nature of the children of God is like the God Who is perfect in love. So it’s not surprising to us that the same standard would apply to God as would apply to us… in the matter of love. So that you will be as sons of your Father in heaven.

And then He gives us some examples of how he loves His enemies and does good for those who persecute Him. “He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous…”. Then He contrasts and He says, “If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even the pagans do that?” In short, to be like your Father in heaven it means that you do not simply love your enemies as you love yourselves or you love your neighbor as yourself; it is that you would love your enemy by preferring them over your own life and in that sense, and within that context it says, “Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

The “old” commandment, under the Law, basically required you to love the extent of your capacity to love… love God as much as you are able and to love your neighbor as you are inclined to love yourself. That’s the “old” commandment. The “new” commandment says, “…as I have loved you.” And it establishes Christ as the standard for love. Christ being the Living God, the standard is the same for God as the standard is for man. Now the reason why the standard is the same is because, according to 2 Peter 1:4, the intent of God is that we be made to be partakers of the divine nature…"

“Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.” and "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of His nature..."

The divine nature, the nature of God, is to love and to love perfectly; to love by preferring the life of another over your own life, to give up your life to God so that God would live through you. Now what’s left unanswered for us is: why? And furthermore, how does this prepare us to overcome the evil one?

Revelation 12:11 “They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.”) In this respect we are meant to be exactly as God—perfect in love—the same standard that applies to God applies to us and this is the measure that displays the reality that we are partakers of the divine nature.

By this it is abundantly clear that the “new” commandment is not simply the “old” commandment rehashed. It has the elements of a totally different standard, the same standard for God and man.
this is really good teaching and it is teaching and not just 'posting of an opinion'

I appreciate the time and effort you took to do it and place it in here for us to acknowledge the fact that what is now required is not what was once required

I just wish folks who are all hung up on law law law, would comprehend
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#19
Faith is an important part of salvation, but no where does Scripture mention 'faith alone'. And, no matter how anyone twists it, that's the truth of Scripture, Old and New Testament.

actually that is not so

we are saved by faith in Christ and not through anything else

8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9not by works, so that no one can boast.
10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.
Ephesians 2

see that? saved through faith and not from anything we do...IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD

so, if not through faith alone, then through what then? what are you adding?

be careful that you are not in fact doing the twisting. I can only read what scripture states and it adds nothing to faith for salvation

so scripture actually does state we are saved through faith alone

be careful not to make the error of claiming this leads people to sin, because then you are doubting the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives