Man's part in Jesus' death on a cross

[brightfame52]

The Christian is a God-made man, not a self-made man.

He is made alive by God, he is born again by God, he is a new creature created in Christ all because of God, all because of the grace of God. A man is saved, not because he was a doer, but because he is a receiver, however, the reception of grace through faith does not make salvation happen. Grace is what makes salvation happen, not works. Salvation happens because of a gift, not works. Salvation happens because of the One giving it, not because of the one receiving it. Receiving is not a work, it is a blessing. Salvation is by what God does, not by anything a man does. All the religions of the world teach that either getting saved, and/or remaining saved, is conditioned on works, on what you do. They say, ‘God is ready to save you after you have done this, or that.’ Religion always “emphasizes meritorious works as part of their salvation (teachings)”.

By Grace Alone (27) | godsonlygospel

 

[brightfame52]

God graciously teaching us to obey His law is what God does.

Again you are consumed with your works and obedience and you say very little of Christ obedience which made many righteous Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[brightfame52]

God graciously teaching us to obey His law is what God does.

God graciously teaches the elect that Jesus obeyed the Law of God in their place and stead and made them righteous. Rom 5:19

The word righteous in the original dikaios

righteous, observing divine laws

1. in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping the commands of God
   1. of those who seem to themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves in their virtues, whether real or imagined
   2. innocent, faultless, guiltless
   3. used of him whose way of thinking, feeling, and acting is wholly conformed to the will of God, and who therefore needs no rectification in the heart or life

All the elect Christ obeyed for are now approved of God, acceptable to God

 

[Soyeong]

God graciously teaches the elect that Jesus obeyed the Law of God in their place and stead and made them righteous. Rom 5:19

In Titus 2:11-13, the content of our gift of salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so doing those works in obedience to the Law of God has nothing to do with earning our salvation as the result, but rather God graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of those works is part of the content of His gift of salvation. This means that if Jesus obeyed the Law of God in our place instead of graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of it, then he would have been removing the content of our gift of salvation from us, so thankfully he did not do that.

The word righteous in the original dikaios

righteous, observing divine laws

1. in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping the commands of God
   1. of those who seem to themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves in their virtues, whether real or imagined
   2. innocent, faultless, guiltless
   3. used of him whose way of thinking, feeling, and acting is wholly conformed to the will of God, and who therefore needs no rectification in the heart or life

All the elect Christ obeyed for are now approved of God, acceptable to God

To have a character trait means to be a doer of works that embody that trait, so to be courageous means that they are a doer of courageous works and to be righteous means to be a doer of righteous works in obedience to the Law of God (1 John 3:4-7). If God were not a doer of righteous works, then God would not be righteous. The Law of God was never given as a way of becoming righteous even as the result of perfect obedience, but rather it was given to describe the life of someone who is righteous as it descries the life of Christ. Christ embodied the righteousness of God by living in obedience to the Law of God, so that is what we get to experience becoming a doer of by being given the gift of the righteousness of God. The righteous are those on whose heart is the Law of God (Isaiah 51:7).

 

[brightfame52]

In Titus 2:11-13, the content of our gift of salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so doing those works in obedience to the Law of God has nothing to do with earning our salvation as the result, but rather God graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of those works is part of the content of His gift of salvation. This means that if Jesus obeyed the Law of God in our place instead of graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of it, then he would have been removing the content of our gift of salvation from us, so thankfully he did not do that.

You still consumed with the works of men

 

[Inquisitor]

In Titus 2:11-13, it doesn't say that we need to become saved first and then we will do those works after we are saved, but rather it describes the content of our gift of salvation as being trained by grace to do those works. In Proverbs 4:2, it defines sound doctrine as not forsaking the Law of Moses. Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Law of Moses that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so Jesus graciously teaching us to be doers of it is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being doers of it. If would be contradictory for someone to think that they need a Jesus to be their Savior while also thinking that they have no obligation to obey the Law of Moses.

Hello Soyeong.

In the letter to the Romans Paul is describing why the Jews are no longer under the law.

How do I know this is true?

Romans 7:1
Or do you not know, brethren for I am speaking to those who know the law...

The Gentiles in Rome knew nothing about the law or the history of Israel for that matter.

The Gentiles in Rome in the first century were never under the law.

Romans 7:1
Or do you not know, brethren for I am speaking to those who know the law...

The Gentiles in Rome were not circumcised and did not observe a sabbath day.

The Gentiles in Rome were not raised in a country that observed the law of Moses.

Romans 7:1
Or do you not know, brethren for I am speaking to those who know the law...

In Rome there were no food laws and no sacrifices or offerings.

The Roman Gentiles were under Roman law not Jewish law.

Then we read on in chapter seven.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that
we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Paul is not telling the Roman Gentiles that they have been released from the law.

Soyeong, do you understand that Paul is directly addressing the Jews in Romans?

 

[Inquisitor]

This is works salvation

It's worse than that brightflame it is defined as works of the law.

Galatians 2:16
Nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith
in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith
in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

 

[Inquisitor]

God graciously teaching us to obey His law is what God does.

Not for a Gentile, Soyeong.

You need to find in the scripture where God announces that Gentile nations are UNDER the law.

Remember, a Gentile must be circumcised and living in Israel to even celebrate the Passover.

The law was never given to the Egyptians or to the Romans and there is no record of that.

 

[Inquisitor]

The Bible is about works no matter how you disguise it.

The subject of the entire scripture is the revelation of the Christ.

The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is what this is all about.

There are three distinct type of works that one can perform.

1) Good works are those works that stem from a heart under grace.

2) There are good works performed by anyone without Jesus and these are dead works.

3) Finally, there are works of the law which are works described in the law and the prophets.

 

[Soyeong]

You still consumed with the works of men

The works that God has commanded are the works of God. The works of man would be the works that man does independently of what God has commanded.

 

[brightfame52]

The works that God has commanded are the works of God. The works of man would be the works that man does independently of what God has commanded.

You still consumed with the works of men

 

[Soyeong]

Hello Soyeong.

In the letter to the Romans Paul is describing why the Jews are no longer under the law.

How do I know this is true?

Romans 7:1
Or do you not know, brethren for I am speaking to those who know the law...

The Gentiles in Rome knew nothing about the law or the history of Israel for that matter.

The Gentiles in Rome in the first century were never under the law.

Romans 7:1
Or do you not know, brethren for I am speaking to those who know the law...

The Gentiles in Rome were not circumcised and did not observe a sabbath day.

The Gentiles in Rome were not raised in a country that observed the law of Moses.

Romans 7:1
Or do you not know, brethren for I am speaking to those who know the law...

In Rome there were no food laws and no sacrifices or offerings.

The Roman Gentiles were under Roman law not Jewish law.

Then we read on in chapter seven.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that
we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Paul is not telling the Roman Gentiles that they have been released from the law.

Soyeong, do you understand that Paul is directly addressing the Jews in Romans?

In Romans 7:22-23, Paul said that he delighted in obeying the Law of God in contrast with the law of sin, which held him captive. It would be absurd to interpret Romans 7:6 as referring to the Law of God as if Paul delighted in being held captive to sin, but rather it is the law of sin that he described as holding him captive.

It's worse than that brightflame it is defined as works of the law.

Galatians 2:16
Nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith
in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith
in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

I have not taken the either position that we are required to obey the Law of God or works of the law in order to earn our justification as the result.

Not for a Gentile, Soyeong.

You need to find in the scripture where God announces that Gentile nations are UNDER the law.

Remember, a Gentile must be circumcised and living in Israel to even celebrate the Passover.

The law was never given to the Egyptians or to the Romans and there is no record of that.

Why did the people of Nineveh need to repent if they were not under the Law of God? The Law of God was given to Israel in order to equip them to be a light and a blessing to the Gentiles by turning them from their wickedness and by teaching them to obey it in accordance with the promise and with spreading the Gospel. There would be no point in spreading the Gospel as a light to Gentiles if Gentiles did not need to repent from their sins.

The subject of the entire scripture is the revelation of the Christ.

The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is what this is all about.

There are three distinct type of works that one can perform.

1) Good works are those works that stem from a heart under grace.

2) There are good works performed by anyone without Jesus and these are dead works.

3) Finally, there are works of the law which are works described in the law and the prophets.

In Matthew 4:!5-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of God was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedient to it is a central part of the Gospel message. Jesus also set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Law of God and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6). in Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus spent his ministry teaching by word and by example and in what he accomplished through the cross is by repenting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of God (Acts 21:20) while the way to reject everything that he is would be by returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us form.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith and these are the works that stem from a heart under grace. Dead works are the ones that lead to death in disobedience to the Law of God. Paul contrasted the Law of God with works of the law, so those are not the Law of God.

 

[Soyeong]

You still consumed with the works of men

You are still incorrect. You can accuse me of that all you want, but it doesn't make my position any less true.

 

[Dino246]

You are still incorrect. You can accuse me of that all you want, but it doesn't make my position any less true.

But your position isn't true, so there is no "less true" to be.

 

[brightfame52]

You are still incorrect. You can accuse me of that all you want, but it doesn't make my position any less true.

Its not an accusation, its a fact you post openly for everyone to see, its not cloaked. Your main conversation is about the works and obedience if men, very little about the works and obedience of Christ and its accomplishment.

 

[Standard]

The title itself proves the point: 'We played no part in Jesus' sacrifice on the cross' is so obviously false, that it gets lost in all the imaginative ideological bromides, that would say we played no part in Jesus' death on a cross.

And since it's physically false, then the ideology is false, that says man plays no part in our own salvation by Jesus' death on the cross. If no man played part in Jesus' work of sacrifice for sins, means that no man can play part in Jesus' work of salvation from sins. Then, if any man played part in the work of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, then every man must also play part in the work of Jesus' salvation from sins.

I.e. did Jesus do all the work of sacrificing Himself for sins, by Himself alone? Or, did any man play a part in His crucifixion on the cross?

The answer is of course obvious, when all the theological airs are brought down to solid ground of an old rugged cross .

Act 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Wicked hands of sinful men played their own part in the work of Jesus, the Lamb of God, being sacrificed for sins on earth.

Luk 24:7
Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

Why must the Son of man be crucified by sinful men on earth? For sins of man? Yes. And also because of sins of men. For if men had not sinned, then the Son of man need not be crucified for sins. And also if men had not sinned against Him at the cross, then He had not been crucified at all.

Sinful men was the cause and means of Jesus' work of sacrifice by crucifixion. Does no cause and means of a work, play part in the work? It does, else work is no more work. And sacrifice is no more sacrifice.

But did only those sinful men play part in Jesus' crucifixion? No, also we, as well as all men that have sinned against Christ, have played our part in the work of crucifying Jesus' body on a tree. Did He die for their sins only? No, also for ours. Did He die because of their sins against Him, yes, also because of ours.

And not only by cause and means, but also by law of God, all men are judged guilty of having part in the shedding the blood of Jesus Christ in sacrifice for sins:

Deu 19:9
If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day, to love the LORD thy God, and to walk ever in his ways;…That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee.

Rom 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

By law, all the land is guilty of the innocent blood shed thereon. But Jesus was not only a born Son of Mary in Judea, but was the Son of man on earth. Therefore, all the earth, and sinful nations and people of the earth, are judged guilty of shedding in the innocent blood of the Lamb of God on earth.

By Scripture and by law of God, any man that says he played no part in the crucifixion work of Jesus' sacrifice for sins, is saying he has not sinned against Christ on earth, and that He had no part nor guilt in shedding His innocent blood unto death.

Since all men that have sinned played our part in crucifying the Son of man, then all men that sinned must have part in the salvation of the Son of God:

Acts{3:19}
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Cor {7:10}
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

We that played our part in nailing Jesus to a tree, must also repent of our own sins against Him at the cross. He must come to die for our sins by our sinful hands, we by reason and cause must repent of killing Him by our sins and trespasses.

Isa 1:18
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

No man can be saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, without first repenting of our own sinful work in His sacrifice for sins on the cross.

Luk 3:8
Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Amen! Our role is a simple one in our salvation: belief in the Son. God calls on us to follow His ways, we try but we fall short of the glory. That was/is our role is Jesus' sacrifice, hence He came and paid the full wage of sin, which is death so we won't have to.... Thank You Lord!