Making an Image

[toyspy]

No one has been under the curse of the Law since Jesus said "It is finished".
Jesus said "All things are new in me".
blessings

Noted. Thank you for the reply.
Does this mean it is not applicable anymore?

 

[toyspy]

This part, in my opinion. Something you see a lot are church buildings full of statues and idols. All over the place you see "Our lady" of this or that. Many of these idols supposedly have miraculous powers and people come from all over the world to worship them and get a miracle. They actually walk to them on their knees. As for paintings, sculptures and photos I think it just depends on what a person does with them.

Thank you for the reply.
Noted. Yeah, that makes sense. Like when it is being worshipped.
Is this like an interpretation of certain verses in Scriptures?

 

[toyspy]

When a post begins with "my opinion" , you have a huge red flag showing it can't be truth.
No one in Christ has an "opinion" that matters, His Own are "hidden in Him" as the truth of scripture states. His thoughts, actions and deeds become the believers thoughts, actions, and deeds as we become conformed to the image of the Son.
Please be forewarned, an unbeliever masquerading as a believer on a Christian forum will be oblivious of this.

This gentleman focused on the ministry of John G. Lake, who not only had a testimony of thousands of healings, but could teach the Creator's healing to others.
Welcome to the forum Toyspy,

Thank you for the warm welcome. I'm happy to have a spiritual family here.
Oh. Thanks for the warning. As it is written, 1 Corinthians 16:13 - Watch, stand fast in the faith, be brave, be strong." 1 John 4:1 - "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." 1 Peter 5:8 - "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour."

 

[toyspy]

I suppose all can be used as idols. If you put anything above God that’s your idol (job, money, animate item, etc).
None of these in themselves are wrong, it’s just how you view them….

Yes, that is true. Idolatry doesn't just involve physical things, but anything that we put above God.

 

[toyspy]

Only to idols and I-dolatry.

Alright. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[toyspy]

Physical images are OT shadows/types of NT reality, which is mental images, ie, the carnal mind, that war against the voice of the holy spirit in our hearts. So when Paul wrote to bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, this is what he was referring to

For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 2 Corinthians 10:4-5​

​

So IMO, focusing on knowledge of scripture (mind) without listening to what the spirit is witnessing about scripture (heart) is worshipping an image that has become graven in our minds. That is why we continually need to be humble and listen so that we can put mental images to death and not let them rule our lives

And be not conformed to this age, but be transformed in the renewal of your mind, in the trying of yourselves, in what is the good and well-pleasing and perfect will of God. For I say by the grace being given to me, to every one being among you, to not be high-minded above what you must think; but to think to be of a sound mind; to each as God portioned a measure of belief. For just as in one body we have many members, but all members do not have the same action; Romans 12:3-4​

​

The OT high places where graven images were worshipped were shadows/types of being high minded, which essentially means thoughts that are exalted above the lowly spirit of God, the still small voice that witnesses to the truth,

Hmmm... This is something to think about. I will do my best to process this thought. Thank you very much for this explanation.

 

[toyspy]

it’s a commandment to a people who had lived four hundred years in ancient Egypt , one of the most idolatrous places and times ever . Thier pharoahs were claiming to be and were worshipped as gods by the Egyptian people. And at that time they were the “ world “ power as far as the nations of people on earth .

they made idols and worshipped them and through them the idols they made of things like animals and animal human hybrid looking creatures like sphinx . What I’m saying is they made heaven images of pharoahs and animals and even mythical fantasized creatures , and the purpose of making the idols was worship of these false diety pharoahs . And men claiming to be God. Holding the dominion on earth in corruption and rebellion against the true and only God the creator and Lord of all things.

when he redeemed and delivered them from slavery in Egypt he was dealing with a people he hadnt spoken to in four hundred years since Jacob went into Egypt with his seventy , the original tribe of Israel who is Jacob the man. But for four hundred years they lived in an idolatrous nation and learned these idolatrous ways building images and worshipping idols they created with thier own hands as tbier god.

If you look closely this was Israel’s problematic disposition and really was a focal point of Moses law given to the children of Israel from Sinai and at horeb and also throughout thoer time in the desert of sin.

Infact before Moses even descended from the mountain with the tablets of the commandments this is what they did

he delivers them and then speaks the commandment to them from Sinai

“I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:2-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i think the key is to look at that as a whole commandment not different ones . What I mean is I see it as him saying “ I Am your God, thou shall not have any god besides me , don’t make graven images of other things and bow down to worship them as gods and give them my glory I Am your God. “


And so then in my opinion having a photograph made of someone , oainting a picture of something or a child playing with a toy horse . Would in no way be recognized as violating any commandment. But the commandment is given to an idolatrous people and is about worship of idols and false gods represented by animals and figures that they worshipped like this before Moses came back down with the tablets of the covenant law

“And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him. And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭32:1, 4‬ ‭

thier intent was to have a god to worship so then they made an idol of a calf and began to worship it as thoer god . This was thier way in Egypt and what they onew but alreqdy they had broken Gods covenant the very first commandment .

I would say if we are worshipping a figure or person or anything at all even technology wise , today an idol can be a iPad or a video game or money ect then we would be included in tbat commandment . But just my opinion

Thank you for the explanation. It is sensible. Yes, in that timeline's context, they did try to creat idols for them to worship, then the story of the commandment and that specific scripture came about as a result of what they did.

 

[Aaron56]

Yes, that is true. Idolatry doesn't just involve physical things, but anything that we put above God.

Or beside God.

An idol's rank matters little when it is an idol. I see this a lot in the U.S.: "God, family, country!" Etc. If God is all and provides all then the mention of additional things with God is idolatry.

 

[toyspy]

I've wondered if the same at some point. After all, children pretend and girls are given baby dolls. Boys enjoy playing with images of animals like when I was 4 my parents bought me a new pair each week for the Noah's Ark at the end. That was awesome! It was the theme of a ministry later on.
Then there were army men and GI Joe action figures. I saved a collectable Peg Leg the pirate for perhaps when the Lord blesses me with a boy of my own some day.

Some would consider photographs sinful in violation of Exodus 20:4 too. I've visited a certain denomination that had no wall hanging or photographs and thought it odd. This seemed to be their belief.
If that's the case , then they should not violate their consciences by being on a computer. It is a collection of images and moving images.

To determine where I was going to stand on this issue as a man who is saved, I decided to look at the context.

We see from Exodus 20:3 the subject is...

"3Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

False gods
Then the end of vs 4 reads....

5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me

The devil worshippers commonly hate the true God Who gives life and breath and all things.
They worship and serve the damned devils which lead the wicked to make idols, images to them.

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

ANYTHING treated as an idol is not to have any place in a Christian's life.
When trying to evaluate the many images we are surrounded with, I have to go by this principle.
Is it an idol?

Hmmm... Thanks for this. This is truly a thought to think about. Actually, I thought of asking this question because I am in a situation similar to that that I had to re-assess my actions. I am in the hobby of toy collecting. I have action figures, statues, etc. I am into arts as well, so I have illustrations, etc. So one day it crossed my mind if I should be keeping all of those to begin with.

On a related note. I recently came across a new line of action figures based on Bible characters. So that thought.

 

[TruthDefender]

Noted. Thank you for the reply.
Does this mean it is not applicable anymore?

Oh so the verse isn’t applicable? Got it!

 

[toyspy]

Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Deu 4:15 Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire:
Deu 4:16 Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,
Deu 4:17 The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air,
Deu 4:18 The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth:
Deu 4:19 And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The graven image has to do with worshipping the graven image to worship a false god, a false deity.

Like Babylon, and the nations did, that they wanted a physical image to worship a god they cannot see.

Also God said do not make a graven image to worship Him for you do not know what He looks like.

We are not to worship God by a physical object and we are not to worship a false god, or anything that we think is important by a physical object.

We do not worship nature like the occultists who honor the God of forces the Cosmos.

Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Photos, sculptures, paintings, toys, and action figures do not apply as a graven image if you are not worshipping it as a deity.

But if you put those things above Jesus or anything else as more important than it is wrong.

Jesus does not mean to actually hate your family but do not put them above Jesus as more important in your life.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Some people love sin more than God.

This makes perfect sense. Thank you very much for the wonderful explanation.

 

[TruthDefender]

Hmmm... Thanks for this. This is truly a thought to think about. Actually, I thought of asking this question because I am in a situation similar to that that I had to re-assess my actions. I am in the hobby of toy collecting. I have action figures, statues, etc. I am into arts as well, so I have illustrations, etc. So one day it crossed my mind if I should be keeping all of those to begin with.

On a related note. I recently came across a new line of action figures based on Bible characters. So that thought.

You should only be worried if you set them up to be worshipped above the Creator. Otherwise they’re nothing! They’re no different than any other tchotchke in the house.

 

[birdie]

Good day. I hope all is well with you.

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments."

This Exodus 20:4-6 verses, along with Leviticus 26:1, Deuteronomy 4:15-18, Deuteronomy 5:8, and others that I might have forgotten - what does the image include? Does it pertain to all and any images? Or only those that are likely to be worshipped as idols and replace the worship of God? What about photos, sculptures, paintings, toys, action figures, etc.?

Thank you very much.

Thanks toyspy, for your question about what comprises an image in the ten commandments scripture you mention.:

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. "

God created man in his image. As long as the Lord builds the house, whose house we are, everything is good. In that case we, the house will be worshipping God in a right way. However, if man begins to make God's house by his own strength, it is as futile as if he tries to save himself by his own goodness, and not by Christ's. Unfortunately, all have fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3), so we should not build with things that persish, but allow God to build us by Christ's work. There are groups which are building apart from God and these are false images, not made in the image of God. If we abide in Christ, he is building us up into God's image.

 

[Blade]

Good day. I hope all is well with you.

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments."

This Exodus 20:4-6 verses, along with Leviticus 26:1, Deuteronomy 4:15-18, Deuteronomy 5:8, and others that I might have forgotten - what does the image include? Does it pertain to all and any images? Or only those that are likely to be worshipped as idols and replace the worship of God? What about photos, sculptures, paintings, toys, action figures, etc.?

Thank you very much.

I have a picture of Jesus.. a old on. It is not Him.. I don't look at it thinking its a picture of Him. Hmm happened only once in my life it was just a few years ago. The short is... I wanted Him to tell me He loved me just as much as a Jewish person (I know I know but.. theres more to this). So I picture me sitting and a Jewish person sitting next to me. This was from my heart. For the life of me.. I could not picture Jesus. I have a picture here.. yet I could not for the life of me picture Him in front of me so lol I just picture colors. So.. that picture came to life. Hand comes down and puts the small tree... I cannot tell you how many branches that tree had. Never in my life seen a tree with so many branches. He said

"show me a branch that was not originally of the vine. I am the vine you are the branches". That was Him telling me I love you just as much. There is no one but no one that can tell what was originally of the vine vs grafted in. ALL that to say.. I don't make pictures of Him to bow down to or worship them. Having a picture is.. just a picture a thought a likeness.

Like this story this man says Jesus appears and took him to some place he had never been and it was a huge statue of JESUS...yeah you guess it. So many people were going to it. He said Jesus was crying saying "I want them to come to me"

 

[tyler87432f]

I have a picture of Jesus.. a old on. It is not Him.. I don't look at it thinking its a picture of Him. Hmm happened only once in my life it was just a few years ago. The short is... I wanted Him to tell me He loved me just as much as a Jewish person (I know I know but.. theres more to this). So I picture me sitting and a Jewish person sitting next to me. This was from my heart. For the life of me.. I could not picture Jesus. I have a picture here.. yet I could not for the life of me picture Him in front of me so lol I just picture colors. So.. that picture came to life. Hand comes down and puts the small tree... I cannot tell you how many branches that tree had. Never in my life seen a tree with so many branches. He said

"show me a branch that was not originally of the vine. I am the vine you are the branches". That was Him telling me I love you just as much. There is no one but no one that can tell what was originally of the vine vs grafted in. ALL that to say.. I don't make pictures of Him to bow down to or worship them. Having a picture is.. just a picture a thought a likeness.

Like this story this man says Jesus appears and took minecraft ultima versión apk him to some place he had never been and it was a huge statue of JESUS...yeah you guess it. So many people were going to it. He said Jesus was crying saying "I want them to come to me"

Yes i see this

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Thank you for the explanation. It is sensible. Yes, in that timeline's context, they did try to creat idols for them to worship, then the story of the commandment and that specific scripture came about as a result of what they did.

The commandment came before they built the calf , but they had been living in ancient Egypt is why they had been living with idols and conmiting idolatry for a few hundred years in Egypt . This was being fulfilled

“And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not their's, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; and also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age. But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces. In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭15:13-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

A they had been exposed for hundreds of years before in the infamously idolatrous ancient Egyptian world of idol worship of in goshen . The commandments indeed came because of what they did but in the co text of exodus there foret God commanded then not to make idols and worship them as gods because he was showing them he was thoer God by delivering them as he spoke to Abram the Hebrew thier forefather of the flesh m.

and then after that Moses went up to the king to receive the written commandments that God had spoke to them from Sinai beginning with “ make no other gods and worship them I am your God who delivered you from bondage “

then Moses left up to the Lou t and then they demanded an idol be made in order to worship it and give it the glory of thiers god. It really shows how engrained it was in thier culture in Egypt

as soon as Moses leaves thier sight they begin demanding they have an idol to look upon and worship it because they can’t see Moses anymore . They needed to see something tangibly to worship it and say “ these be our gods oh israel that delivered us “

God knew idolatry was thoer biggest issue it’s why he gave them the foret commandment . He knew of Egypts idolatry and also all of thier idolatry in Egypt

If you look it never stopped in the ot israel went on from thier to worship every nations god around them o ly other than a couple generations not thier own true God did they worship but idols and fantastical myths and legends of man formed into an idol to look like a cow or pig or man or cat or some by rod form but thier gol was to create an object to look upon and worship but in it is just fantastic man’s perverted inaginations we create false gods because we Inherantly are made to worship Gos we’re just corrupted by sin now and that wicked imagination that creates our own gods who accept things we want to do and have as good rether than what God has said is good and evil

idolatry is one of mans worst issues and has been since ancient times everything has changed now with technology but the idol worship remains an issue to worship the lord now comes down to time and heart and sincerity and walking with him in the spirit rather than spending our time and live on the world walking by it’s ways and senses

 

[HaveEL]

Good day. I hope all is well with you.

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments."

This Exodus 20:4-6 verses, along with Leviticus 26:1, Deuteronomy 4:15-18, Deuteronomy 5:8, and others that I might have forgotten - what does the image include? Does it pertain to all and any images? Or only those that are likely to be worshipped as idols and replace the worship of God? What about photos, sculptures, paintings, toys, action figures, etc.?

Thank you very much.

First point: We're not under the law anymore. Second: If we take these verses in context They do seem to say that it only applies if you're making graven images and Idols to worship instead of the one True God. That's why it says, "I the Lord thy God am a jealous God and will have no other gods before me."

 

[Mwestton]

Good day. I hope all is well with you.

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments."

This Exodus 20:4-6 verses, along with Leviticus 26:1, Deuteronomy 4:15-18, Deuteronomy 5:8, and others that I might have forgotten - what does the image include? Does it pertain to all and any images? Or only those that are likely to be worshipped as idols and replace the worship of God? What about photos, sculptures, paintings, toys, action figures, etc.?

Thank you very much.

When carved images were made by pagans in the past they believed a deity would enter them and worship it. The Hebrew word shediom. A foreign God yes known as demons. I don't have statues. Or sculptures. Action figures a toy. I would say so give admiration to a figure.paintings, what is the painting of? A figure? Use your discernment in this. I have pictures from Mardells that remind of my faith but I don't admire them but like them to remind me of my faith.

 

[Edify]

Yes, that is true. Idolatry doesn't just involve physical things, but anything that we put above God.

To me,that's an area few look at. Let me explain....
"anything we put above God". When many christians worship God LESS, other things we are devoted to become above God, becoming idols. Nearly everything, family, friends, sports, etc end up being ahead of God when He becomes LESS in our hearts.
Something to think about....
One thing I see a lot of is teens bowed over(down) to their cell phones in church. Definitely a problem.

 

[TruthDefender]

To me,that's an area few look at. Let me explain....
"anything we put above God". When many christians worship God LESS, other things we are devoted to become above God, becoming idols. Nearly everything, family, friends, sports, etc end up being ahead of God when He becomes LESS in our hearts.
Something to think about....
One thing I see a lot of is teens bowed over(down) to their cell phones in church. Definitely a problem.

Another problem is soccer games/ sports being on Sunday mornings, and Wednesday nights. Satan working on the scheduling of sport events. Whole generations being affected…..