Oh so it's not about rapture or anything of that nature, it's about something else?
Luke 17 - Where are they taken?
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Oh so it's not about rapture or anything of that nature, it's about something else?
A book I read long ago, https://www.amazon.com/Army-Caesars-Michael-Grant/dp/0684138212
https://www.abebooks.com/9780684138213/Army-Caesars-Michael-Grant-0684138212/plp
"Michael Grant CBE (21 November 1914 – 4 October 2004) was an English classicist, numismatist, and author of numerous books on ancient history.[1] His 1956 translation of Tacitus's Annals of Imperial Rome remains a standard of the work. Having studied and held a number of academic posts in the United Kingdom and the Middle East, he retired early to devote himself fully to writing. "
The Roman army certainly had a minimum height requirement which exceeded the average height of the population as a whole. A story from a Talmudic
Midrash, dating to the Roman period, makes this point:
There is a case of a man who conscripted recruits. A man came to
conscript someone’s son. [The father] said: look at my son . . . how
tall he is! His mother said: look at our son, how tall he is. The
[recruiter] answered: in your eyes . . . he is tall. I do not know. Let us
see whether he is tall. They measured [him] and he proved to be [too]
small and was rejected.14
...
It is not surprising to see such forced labor referred to by the
provincials in their literature: when the Mishnah mentions “idolworshipers” (gilulim), i.e., Romans, carrying off Jews; it probably refers
to conscription to corvée labor, which would include service as
porters.301 St. Matthew, has Jesus say: “whoever impresses (angareusei)
you to go one mile, go with him two miles.” Whether or not this
represents Jesus’ actual words, the Greek uses the technical word
for corvée labor, as well as a loan-word from Latin to mean “mile”
(milion).302 In first century Palestine, a Latin loan-word in such a context strongly suggests the “whoever” in this case represents a military officer. "
(THE LOGISTICS OF
THE ROMAN ARMY AT
WAR (264 B.C. - A.D. 235)
JONATHAN P. ROTH) http://www.legioxxirapax.com/zasoby/The_Logistics_of_the_Roman_Army_at_War_(264BC_-_235AD).pdf
Midrash, dating to the Roman period, makes this point:
There is a case of a man who conscripted recruits. A man came to
conscript someone’s son. [The father] said: look at my son . . . how
tall he is! His mother said: look at our son, how tall he is. The
[recruiter] answered: in your eyes . . . he is tall. I do not know. Let us
see whether he is tall. They measured [him] and he proved to be [too]
small and was rejected.14
...
It is not surprising to see such forced labor referred to by the
provincials in their literature: when the Mishnah mentions “idolworshipers” (gilulim), i.e., Romans, carrying off Jews; it probably refers
to conscription to corvée labor, which would include service as
porters.301 St. Matthew, has Jesus say: “whoever impresses (angareusei)
you to go one mile, go with him two miles.” Whether or not this
represents Jesus’ actual words, the Greek uses the technical word
for corvée labor, as well as a loan-word from Latin to mean “mile”
(milion).302 In first century Palestine, a Latin loan-word in such a context strongly suggests the “whoever” in this case represents a military officer. "
(THE LOGISTICS OF
THE ROMAN ARMY AT
WAR (264 B.C. - A.D. 235)
JONATHAN P. ROTH) http://www.legioxxirapax.com/zasoby/The_Logistics_of_the_Roman_Army_at_War_(264BC_-_235AD).pdf
Where they were taken was that they did not move them one inch . When they believed the gospel their citizenship changed . You could say where their new heart was there they found the treasure of walking by faith, the unseen eternal .
No reason to make the church disappear as in dispensationalism as if God worked differently in different time periods or seasons . .
Matthew 6:19-20 King James Version (KJV) Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
No reason to make the church disappear as in dispensationalism as if God worked differently in different time periods or seasons . .
Matthew 6:19-20 King James Version (KJV) Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Well I will say this, many have presented interesting points that all seem to be right but who knows.
Luk 17:36 Two G1417 men shall be G2071 in G1722 the G3588 field; G68 the G3588 one G1520 shall be taken, G3880 and G2532 the G3588 other G2087 left. G863
Luk 17:37 And G2532 they answered G611 and said G3004 unto him, G846 Where, G4226 Lord? G2962 And G1161 he G3588 said G2036 unto them, G846 Wheresoever G3699 the G3588 body G4983 is, thither G1563 will the G3588 eagles G105 be gathered together. G4863
It's been a while since I last posted. This has always puzzled me until today. I looked at meanings. I don't know why it took so long.
One shall be taken:
G3880
παραλαμβάνω
paralambanō
par-al-am-ban'-o
From G3844 and G2983; to receive near, that is, associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); by analogy to assume an office; figuratively to learn: - receive, take (unto, with).
Total KJV occurrences: 50
A good thing, agree?
The other left:
G863
ἀφίημι
aphiēmi
af-ee'-ay-mee
From G575 and ἵημι hiēmi (to send; an intensive form of εἶμι eimi (to go)); to send forth, in various applications: - cry, forgive, forsake, lay aside, leave, let (alone, be, go, have), omit, put (send) away, remit, suffer, yield up.
Total KJV occurrences: 147
Not so good, agree?
Where Lord?
17:37 And G2532 they answered G611 and said G3004 unto him, G846 Where, G4226 Lord? G2962 And G1161 he G3588 said G2036 unto them, G846 Wheresoever G3699 the G3588 body G4983 is, thither G1563 will the G3588 eagles G105 be gathered together. G4863
Wherever the body of Christ is. ? Agree?
There are the eagles..:
G105
ἀετός
aetos
ah-et-os'
From the same as G109; an eagle (from its wind like flight): - eagle.
Total KJV occurrences: 4
The breath of God filling one to fly as the eagle. Catches the wind currents and soars above on them. Sees the enemy from this position (snakes), swoops down to catch them, takes them high above then drops them to dash their heads on the rocks.
The work of our precious Holy Spirit.
I totally love the picture of the eagle saints.
Luk 17:37 And G2532 they answered G611 and said G3004 unto him, G846 Where, G4226 Lord? G2962 And G1161 he G3588 said G2036 unto them, G846 Wheresoever G3699 the G3588 body G4983 is, thither G1563 will the G3588 eagles G105 be gathered together. G4863
It's been a while since I last posted. This has always puzzled me until today. I looked at meanings. I don't know why it took so long.
One shall be taken:
G3880
παραλαμβάνω
paralambanō
par-al-am-ban'-o
From G3844 and G2983; to receive near, that is, associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); by analogy to assume an office; figuratively to learn: - receive, take (unto, with).
Total KJV occurrences: 50
A good thing, agree?
The other left:
G863
ἀφίημι
aphiēmi
af-ee'-ay-mee
From G575 and ἵημι hiēmi (to send; an intensive form of εἶμι eimi (to go)); to send forth, in various applications: - cry, forgive, forsake, lay aside, leave, let (alone, be, go, have), omit, put (send) away, remit, suffer, yield up.
Total KJV occurrences: 147
Not so good, agree?
Where Lord?
17:37 And G2532 they answered G611 and said G3004 unto him, G846 Where, G4226 Lord? G2962 And G1161 he G3588 said G2036 unto them, G846 Wheresoever G3699 the G3588 body G4983 is, thither G1563 will the G3588 eagles G105 be gathered together. G4863
Wherever the body of Christ is. ? Agree?
There are the eagles..:
G105
ἀετός
aetos
ah-et-os'
From the same as G109; an eagle (from its wind like flight): - eagle.
Total KJV occurrences: 4
The breath of God filling one to fly as the eagle. Catches the wind currents and soars above on them. Sees the enemy from this position (snakes), swoops down to catch them, takes them high above then drops them to dash their heads on the rocks.
The work of our precious Holy Spirit.
I totally love the picture of the eagle saints.
Eagles are considered unclean birds as flesh eaters. Eagles wings could represent messengers but neither Luke or Mathew the companion verse speak of wings but rather where they gather to eat carcasses. A picture of the last days followed by the last.
Matthew 24:27-29 King James Version (KJV) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matthew 24:27-29 King James Version (KJV) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Isa 40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.
Isa 40:29 He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
Isa 40:30 Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall:
Isa 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
Isa 40:29 He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
Isa 40:30 Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall:
Isa 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; A great eagle with great wings, longwinged, full of feathers, which had divers colours, came unto Lebanon, and took the highest branch of the cedar:
4 He cropped off the top of his young twigs, and carried it into a land of traffick; he set it in a city of merchants.
5 He took also of the seed of the land, and planted it in a fruitful field; he placed it by great waters, and set it as a willow tree.
6 And it grew, and became a spreading vine of low stature, whose branches turned toward him, and the roots thereof were under him: so it became a vine, and brought forth branches, and shot forth sprigs.
7 There was also another great eagle with great wings and many feathers: and, behold, this vine did bend her roots toward him, and shot forth her branches toward him, that he might water it by the furrows of her plantation.
8 It was planted in a good soil by great waters, that it might bring forth branches, and that it might bear fruit, that it might be a goodly vine.
9 Say thou, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Shall it prosper? shall he not pull up the roots thereof, and cut off the fruit thereof, that it wither? it shall wither in all the leaves of her spring, even without great power or many people to pluck it up by the roots thereof.
10 Yea, behold, being planted, shall it prosper? shall it not utterly wither, when the east wind toucheth it? it shall wither in the furrows where it grew.
4 He cropped off the top of his young twigs, and carried it into a land of traffick; he set it in a city of merchants.
5 He took also of the seed of the land, and planted it in a fruitful field; he placed it by great waters, and set it as a willow tree.
6 And it grew, and became a spreading vine of low stature, whose branches turned toward him, and the roots thereof were under him: so it became a vine, and brought forth branches, and shot forth sprigs.
7 There was also another great eagle with great wings and many feathers: and, behold, this vine did bend her roots toward him, and shot forth her branches toward him, that he might water it by the furrows of her plantation.
8 It was planted in a good soil by great waters, that it might bring forth branches, and that it might bear fruit, that it might be a goodly vine.
9 Say thou, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Shall it prosper? shall he not pull up the roots thereof, and cut off the fruit thereof, that it wither? it shall wither in all the leaves of her spring, even without great power or many people to pluck it up by the roots thereof.
10 Yea, behold, being planted, shall it prosper? shall it not utterly wither, when the east wind toucheth it? it shall wither in the furrows where it grew.
I would offer from a Amil position .
Eagles are used in ceremonial laws as unclean used to represent unbelief. . . no faith that exclusively comes from hearing God who is not seen. I would think. The mystery in that way are made known by the parable using various metaphors...
Wings of eagles, flesh eaters. . . its wings are used as swift messengers of truth to show us God is not served by human hands.
Like other things seen serpents, lions are to represent clean redeemed, and unclean unredeemed . They can be used to represent either by looking at the context. One serpent shallowing up the other as with Moses. To show the witness of God is greater than the witness of man, Or a lion as it would seem being defeated by the hands of man like the prophet , Judge Samson from the tribe of Judah the first born tribe.
the tribe of Judah the foundation of the new priesthood of believers a kingdom of priests from all nations where two or three gather together under his name, the word of God he is there working with them.
I think the application is looking at the subject from the "last day". . the end of time giving two witnesses. Noah and Lot.
In john the Holy Spirit used the phrase "last day" six times to emphasize the timing of the final ressurection closing the gates and casting the letter of the law . . death in to his fiery judgement never to rise and condemn and corrupt a whole creation ever again .
The ones that disappear are in the twinkling of the eye receiving their new incorruptible bodies. . faith becoming sight. The ones left they will not rise to new spirit life. They will be prey for predator birds like eagles. In that way we should be careful I believe, how we hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches sects. And be harmless as a Dove but wise as a serpent that would not allow a heel to crush without sticking back . In that way he brings the swiftness of the message but the power on the wings of a dove.
A Raven another unclean bird as a flesh eater. Was sent out with the dove. The Raven returned but after three times with three denoting the end of the matter it did not return until the Son of man, Jesus began his ministry
Galatians 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. 27-37
I would suggest another way of saying let the dead bury the dead. Eagles as flesh eaters are considered ceremonial dead .The dead eating the dead
Eagles are used in ceremonial laws as unclean used to represent unbelief. . . no faith that exclusively comes from hearing God who is not seen. I would think. The mystery in that way are made known by the parable using various metaphors...
Wings of eagles, flesh eaters. . . its wings are used as swift messengers of truth to show us God is not served by human hands.
Like other things seen serpents, lions are to represent clean redeemed, and unclean unredeemed . They can be used to represent either by looking at the context. One serpent shallowing up the other as with Moses. To show the witness of God is greater than the witness of man, Or a lion as it would seem being defeated by the hands of man like the prophet , Judge Samson from the tribe of Judah the first born tribe.
the tribe of Judah the foundation of the new priesthood of believers a kingdom of priests from all nations where two or three gather together under his name, the word of God he is there working with them.
I think the application is looking at the subject from the "last day". . the end of time giving two witnesses. Noah and Lot.
In john the Holy Spirit used the phrase "last day" six times to emphasize the timing of the final ressurection closing the gates and casting the letter of the law . . death in to his fiery judgement never to rise and condemn and corrupt a whole creation ever again .
The ones that disappear are in the twinkling of the eye receiving their new incorruptible bodies. . faith becoming sight. The ones left they will not rise to new spirit life. They will be prey for predator birds like eagles. In that way we should be careful I believe, how we hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches sects. And be harmless as a Dove but wise as a serpent that would not allow a heel to crush without sticking back . In that way he brings the swiftness of the message but the power on the wings of a dove.
A Raven another unclean bird as a flesh eater. Was sent out with the dove. The Raven returned but after three times with three denoting the end of the matter it did not return until the Son of man, Jesus began his ministry
Galatians 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. 27-37
I would suggest another way of saying let the dead bury the dead. Eagles as flesh eaters are considered ceremonial dead .The dead eating the dead
YesLuk 17:36 Two G1417 men shall be G2071 in G1722 the G3588 field; G68 the G3588 one G1520 shall be taken, G3880 and G2532 the G3588 other G2087 left. G863
Luk 17:37 And G2532 they answered G611 and said G3004 unto him, G846 Where, G4226 Lord? G2962 And G1161 he G3588 said G2036 unto them, G846 Wheresoever G3699 the G3588 body G4983 is, thither G1563 will the G3588 eagles G105 be gathered together. G4863
It's been a while since I last posted. This has always puzzled me until today. I looked at meanings. I don't know why it took so long.
One shall be taken:
G3880
παραλαμβάνω
paralambanō
par-al-am-ban'-o
From G3844 and G2983; to receive near, that is, associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); by analogy to assume an office; figuratively to learn: - receive, take (unto, with).
Total KJV occurrences: 50
A good thing, agree?
The other left:
G863
ἀφίημι
aphiēmi
af-ee'-ay-mee
From G575 and ἵημι hiēmi (to send; an intensive form of εἶμι eimi (to go)); to send forth, in various applications: - cry, forgive, forsake, lay aside, leave, let (alone, be, go, have), omit, put (send) away, remit, suffer, yield up.
Total KJV occurrences: 147
Not so good, agree?
Where Lord?
17:37 And G2532 they answered G611 and said G3004 unto him, G846 Where, G4226 Lord? G2962 And G1161 he G3588 said G2036 unto them, G846 Wheresoever G3699 the G3588 body G4983 is, thither G1563 will the G3588 eagles G105 be gathered together. G4863
Wherever the body of Christ is. ? Agree?
There are the eagles..:
G105
ἀετός
aetos
ah-et-os'
From the same as G109; an eagle (from its wind like flight): - eagle.
Total KJV occurrences: 4
The breath of God filling one to fly as the eagle. Catches the wind currents and soars above on them. Sees the enemy from this position (snakes), swoops down to catch them, takes them high above then drops them to dash their heads on the rocks.
The work of our precious Holy Spirit.
I totally love the picture of the eagle saints.
When Jesus said corpse vs eagles he was speaking a riddle.
IOW he did not answer their question directly.
When sampson gave his riddle only the wife was given the meaning
.....the gentile wife.
Remember,when sampson chose her the hebrews family opposed it.
...but it says "they did not know the marrige was of God"
if you are postrib rapture adherent,then you need a postrib EVENT.
EXAMPLE;
AFTER the flood noah was taken to the sky...
And the wicked were taken to 'wherever you need them to be taken'
But no.....no such event
It is 100% preflood
It is a parable or called the hidden manna in Revelation 2 that hides the unseen spiritual application. . the gospel.
Unclean, Eagles as predators, flesh eaters represent un believers. No faith coming from the word of God as those not redeemed by the lamb of God.
Its a picture of the dead consuming the dead. The leter of the law a consuming fire as the judgment of God.
Like Jesus said; "let the dead burry the dead". Prophecy identified by a clean bird like a dove gives us a living hope that will not disappoint us on the last day . Doves flying on the swift wings of eagles.
Like other metaphors eagles many are used in two ways .Satan the counterfeit who does the opposite would say one. God say let it be separate the father of lies calls it one.
I think we could say a warning to help us remember we do not wrestles against flesh and blood (the temporal carnal things seen) but do against the unseen lying spirits in high places.
Galatians 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.