Loss of salvation???

[Ouch]

As a complex question, well, you can look up what that means.

Do you really think that Paul would contradict himself?

These kinds of questions aren't worthwhile in my opinion.

Much love!

No Paul would not, I'm happy you agree.

Paul's message in Acts 19 was the begining of the church in Ephuas as the rest of them.

That is why you will not find Paul telling anyone how to be saved after the book of Acts.

GOD BLESS YOU in your walk.

 

[markss]

GOD BLESS YOU in your walk.

And you also! As He has promised.

Much love!

 

[Toknow]

First I really do like the way you hold your self on CC, I'm old and don't have much tack at all. So forgive me if I seam harsh in anyway!!!

I really don't have a belief system, I just follow JESUS and HIS word.

Don't we all.
And yet it seems we do not agree even on important matters.

I know HE does not play games and is strick.

This is what JESUS said in John 3:5

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Which means there is NO WAY we can enter Heaven with out both.

1. What if a person believes but has never been told he must be baptized?
A converted Muslim for instance.
A person living in a tribe in Africa.


2. What if I live in NYC and I come to believe and know I must be baptized, but I die in an accident and am never baptized.

What happend to these two person?

Scripture says, the only way to get rid of our sins is being baptized in JESUS name, and sins will not enter Heaven.

Jesus stated that if we believe in Him we will be saved.
John 3:16


Paul said that if we believe God raised jesus from the dead,,,we will be saved.
Romans 10:9

Paul said that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
Romans


Peter said that if we repent, we will be saved.
1 Peter 3:9


"I know from church history that many in the early church would put off being baptized until they were close to death so that all their sins could be forgiven....so they absolutely believed in baptism forgiving sins"

I did not know that, and have no idea why people think that is a good idea? What happens if they died before they had a chance to get baptized??? Not a good idea.

Something to think on, if we believe HIS word and we have to be born of water and of spirit why would you think Cornelius was saved without never calling on Peter?

Here is what I think, JESUS talks to us in small still voices, Corelius had his ears open for a long time.

Every thing is in GODS timing, so GOD had everything set up having John the baptist born just before JESUS etc. There was ALOT involved.

GOD has plans for ALL of us to be saved not just the Jews and when JESUS was on this earth no one knew at that point UNTIL, the first message preached.

Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Question, was that JESUS speaking through Peter via the Holy Ghost or was it Peter?

I say it was JESUS speaking through him, how would Peter know it was for ALL the Lord shall call?

Back to Cornelius, GODS timing had him born, heart ready the whole ball of wax set in place from the beginning of time for him to call on Peter for ALL of the Gentiles to be grafted in.

No way could he have been saved, how many people even on this sight that has to hear the message and has to act with obidence and get baptized.

So many people hear the message and just refuse to accept it, would you think they are saved?

Baptism is not the only thing to be saved, Belive, Repent, bapitzed in JESUS name to get rid of our sins is all things that we have to do.

JESUS is the one who fills us with the Holy Ghost, like HE did HIS discples in Acts 2:4.

Baptizing babies, why? How can babies make a decision to follow JESUS and repent of their sins? for sure is not bible.

One reason I don't get into denominations and just stick with HIS word.

We are blessed in the USA, and sad it's not that way everywhere it sure was foundered on Christ.

I do know EVERY one will hear, Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

I'm surprised you think just believe, have faith and obey is all we need?

I've seen you post we have to follow what JESUS says and be bapitzed? Isn't that part of obeing?

You do know the way you think, your saying that we don't need to get rid of ours sins, or be filled with the Holy Ghost? John 3:5.

At least 3 denominations follow HIS rules, but also most today baptized in JESUS titles not in JESUS name, which I do belvied the catholic church started and alot of churchs follow the catholics.

I have had many debates about JESUS being GOD, I ask what is the names of your three gods?

We should depent on the Holy Ghost to help us and only by it will people understand who JESUS is.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Which lead to another problem, so many people think they have the Holy Ghost and never had.

I HAVE NO IDEA who does, or doens't for instance, when someone says when you first believe you get it some red flags goes up, no where do you seed that in HIS word.

Mark 16:16 believe AND baptized, they go together.

You are right it's the ones who is doing the teaching, but I was there once, he's the pracher so he's right, right?

That is why we are supose to keep man in check with HIS rule book.

OUR WORDS are very very important, we will be responsible for eveyone of them.

I don't know how to do as many do in here, show what you said and respond old dog don't do new tricks to well.

Hope you were able to follow, GOD BLESS YOU.

We should alwasy be humble and under constrution.[/QUOTE]

 

[Toknow]

@Ouch

Ouch...
I spent almost an hour responding to your post below.
Then it wouldn't post.
Then it psoted but was a mess.
§Then I was fixing it and the time ran out for editing.

This system is really bad but I guess it isn't going to change.


I've learned to save everything....which I did.
I'm going to just post your post and mine and I hope you can figure it out.
My words will be in green.

---------------------------------------------------------------

First I really do like the way you hold your self on CC, I'm old and don't have much tack at all. So forgive me if I seam harsh in anyway!!!

I really don't have a belief system, I just follow JESUS and HIS word.

Don't we all.
And yet it seems we do not agree even on important matters.

I know HE does not play games and is strick.

This is what JESUS said in John 3:5

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Which means there is NO WAY we can enter Heaven with out both.

1. What if a person believes but has never been told he must be baptized?
A converted Muslim for instance.
A person living in a tribe in Africa.


2. What if I live in NYC and I come to believe and know I must be baptized, but I die in an accident and am never baptized.

What happend to these two person?

Scripture says, the only way to get rid of our sins is being baptized in JESUS name, and sins will not enter Heaven.

Jesus stated that if we believe in Him we will be saved.
John 3:16


Paul said that if we believe God raised jesus from the dead,,,we will be saved.
Romans 10:9

Paul said that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
Romans 10:13


Peter said that if we repent, we will be saved.
1 Peter 3:9

What do we do with this type of verse?
Remove it from the NT?

"I know from church history that many in the early church would put off being baptized until they were close to death so that all their sins could be forgiven....so they absolutely believed in baptism forgiving sins"

I did not know that, and have no idea why people think that is a good idea? What happens if they died before they had a chance to get baptized??? Not a good idea.

Something to think on, if we believe HIS word and we have to be born of water and of spirit why would you think Cornelius was saved without never calling on Peter?

Cornelius was saved because he was not aware of the gospel message until it was preached to him.

Not everyone who is saved has heard the gospel message.
Romans 2:20-21

Here is what I think, JESUS talks to us in small still voices, Corelius had his ears open for a long time.

Every thing is in GODS timing, so GOD had everything set up having John the baptist born just before JESUS etc. There was ALOT involved.

GOD has plans for ALL of us to be saved not just the Jews and when JESUS was on this earth no one knew at that point UNTIL, the first message preached.

Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Agreed...but just to clarify...
do you believe no one was saved before Jesus??
Not sure I'm understanding you.

Question, was that JESUS speaking through Peter via the Holy Ghost or was it Peter?

I say it was JESUS speaking through him, how would Peter know it was for ALL the Lord shall call?

If we believe that scripture is God-breathed, then we better believe that it was Jesus speaking through Peter.

Back to Cornelius, GODS timing had him born, heart ready the whole ball of wax set in place from the beginning of time for him to call on Peter for ALL of the Gentiles to be grafted in.

No way could he have been saved, how many people even on this sight that has to hear the message and has to act with obidence and get baptized.

Ouch,,,it's not up to you to proclaim who is saved and who is not.
I have to hope that God will have more mercy than YOU have!

How could a man fear (respect) God,
Pray to God
Teach God to his family

and be lost?

Because YOU make the rules for salvation?
I'd say that anyone in his shoes will be saved.

Obstinate refusal to be baptized MAY be harmful to a person's spiritual life.

And, as I've already stated,,,degigrating baptism,,,which JESUS commanded we do,,,
is also not recommended, IMHO.

Saying that it's like taking a bath, or a plunge is water,,,is disrespectful to Jesus, who ordered it.


1 of 2

 

[Toknow]

2 of 2

So many people hear the message and just refuse to accept it, would you think they are saved?

Baptism is not the only thing to be saved, Belive, Repent, bapitzed in JESUS name to get rid of our sins is all things that we have to do.

I agree.
This is what I call obstinance.
The refusal to obey jesus.

JESUS is the one who fills us with the Holy Ghost, like HE did HIS discples in Acts 2:4.

Baptizing babies, why? How can babies make a decision to follow JESUS and repent of their sins? for sure is not bible.

One reason I don't get into denominations and just stick with HIS word.

Instead it would be helpful if we knew some church history and understand why babies were baptized in the early church.
I won't get into it here unless you want to...
but IF we want to believe that baptism is real,,,as I think that you do...
then babies still receive the Holy Spirit.

Question is: What do they do with Him when they attain the age of accountability?

Not every baby that is baptized will be saved.

We are blessed in the USA, and sad it's not that way everywhere it sure was foundered on Christ.

I do know EVERY one will hear, Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

I'm surprised you think just believe, have faith and obey is all we need?

I've seen you post we have to follow what JESUS says and be bapitzed? Isn't that part of obeing?

Yes sir.
I state that we are to be baptized.
I just don't think it's as simple as you seem to believe.
It's a bit more complicated.

You do know the way you think, your saying that we don't need to get rid of ours sins, or be filled with the Holy Ghost? John 3:5.

Do we ever REALLY get rid of our sins?
Do we stop sinning after baptism?

Who is filled with the Holy Spirit?
is it just the baptized? I'm not at all sure,,,except I tend toward that belief.

At least 3 denominations follow HIS rules, but also most today baptized in JESUS titles not in JESUS name, which I do belvied the catholic church started and alot of churchs follow the catholics.

I think you mean in the AUTHORITY of Jesus.
The CC does what Jesus commanded....I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 28:19

I have had many debates about JESUS being GOD, I ask what is the names of your three gods?

There is only ONE GOD ouch.
His name is YAHWEH.

Yahweh is a divine being.
This one divine BEING is composed of 3 PERSONS....
The Father
The Son
The Holy Spirit

They share the same nature/essence.
They are all 3 eternal.
They are different in Person and in function.

The Son and the Holy Spirit are referred to as a PERSON in the NT
and they are also referred to as having the qualites that God has.
This is why those that came after the Apostles grappled to understand who this Jesus was...
He was plainly a man...
but he forgave sins
he was resurrected
he was a miracle worker

WHAT was He?
Was He a man?
Was He God?
It was decided that He was both man and God, which explains scripture perfectly.

Jesus was not speaking to Himself in the Garden...
He was speaking to another PERSON...the Father.

We should depent on the Holy Ghost to help us and only by it will people understand who JESUS is.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

I'd say that if one does not believe Jesus is God,,,
then who is that person worshipping?
Is he worshipping a man??
That would be idolatry.

Which lead to another problem, so many people think they have the Holy Ghost and never had.

I HAVE NO IDEA who does, or doens't for instance, when someone says when you first believe you get it some red flags goes up, no where do you seed that in HIS word.

I'd say that the Holy Spirit comes to live with us at salvation.
He indwells us at baptism.

I'd also say that when one has the Holy Spirit, his life will change and some visible transformation SHOULD take place.

Mark 16:16 believe AND baptized, they go together.

You are right it's the ones who is doing the teaching, but I was there once, he's the pracher so he's right, right?

That is why we are supose to keep man in check with HIS rule book.

Yes, the teacher is responsible to teach correctly...
but some on this very Forum teach odd ideas that are not even found in the NT.
Yes sir. We are to test everything with the NT...we should be like the Bareans in Acts.

OUR WORDS are very very important, we will be responsible for eveyone of them.

I don't know how to do as many do in here, show what you said and respond old dog don't do new tricks to well.

Hope you were able to follow, GOD BLESS YOU.

We should alwasy be humble and under constrution.

I think I followed OK because you stated everything clearly.
I can only repeat that I doubt we can understand baptism completely.
And we do need to obey jesus.
We should not reject baptism or trivialize it or demean it.
We should do everything Jesus said to do.
God bless you too!

 

[Toknow]

No mazerrrrati fo you.

View attachment 285803

LOL

Thanks for the memories!
My favorite sitcome of all time!

 

[Toknow]

What are the reasons you don’t agree with being saved by faith alone?

We ARE saved by ONLY FAITH.

But FAITH ALONE is not biblical.

What does FAITH ALONE mean?

 

[Ouch]

Don't we all.
And yet it seems we do not agree even on important matters.





1. What if a person believes but has never been told he must be baptized?
A converted Muslim for instance.
A person living in a tribe in Africa.


2. What if I live in NYC and I come to believe and know I must be baptized, but I die in an accident and am never baptized.

What happend to these two person?





Jesus stated that if we believe in Him we will be saved.
John 3:16


Paul said that if we believe God raised jesus from the dead,,,we will be saved.
Romans 10:9

Paul said that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
Romans


Peter said that if we repent, we will be saved.
1 Peter 3:9


"I know from church history that many in the early church would put off being baptized until they were close to death so that all their sins could be forgiven....so they absolutely believed in baptism forgiving sins"

I did not know that, and have no idea why people think that is a good idea? What happens if they died before they had a chance to get baptized??? Not a good idea.

Something to think on, if we believe HIS word and we have to be born of water and of spirit why would you think Cornelius was saved without never calling on Peter?

Here is what I think, JESUS talks to us in small still voices, Corelius had his ears open for a long time.

Every thing is in GODS timing, so GOD had everything set up having John the baptist born just before JESUS etc. There was ALOT involved.

GOD has plans for ALL of us to be saved not just the Jews and when JESUS was on this earth no one knew at that point UNTIL, the first message preached.

Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Question, was that JESUS speaking through Peter via the Holy Ghost or was it Peter?

I say it was JESUS speaking through him, how would Peter know it was for ALL the Lord shall call?

Back to Cornelius, GODS timing had him born, heart ready the whole ball of wax set in place from the beginning of time for him to call on Peter for ALL of the Gentiles to be grafted in.

No way could he have been saved, how many people even on this sight that has to hear the message and has to act with obidence and get baptized.

So many people hear the message and just refuse to accept it, would you think they are saved?

Baptism is not the only thing to be saved, Belive, Repent, bapitzed in JESUS name to get rid of our sins is all things that we have to do.

JESUS is the one who fills us with the Holy Ghost, like HE did HIS discples in Acts 2:4.

Baptizing babies, why? How can babies make a decision to follow JESUS and repent of their sins? for sure is not bible.

One reason I don't get into denominations and just stick with HIS word.

We are blessed in the USA, and sad it's not that way everywhere it sure was foundered on Christ.

I do know EVERY one will hear, Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

I'm surprised you think just believe, have faith and obey is all we need?

I've seen you post we have to follow what JESUS says and be bapitzed? Isn't that part of obeing?

You do know the way you think, your saying that we don't need to get rid of ours sins, or be filled with the Holy Ghost? John 3:5.

At least 3 denominations follow HIS rules, but also most today baptized in JESUS titles not in JESUS name, which I do belvied the catholic church started and alot of churchs follow the catholics.

I have had many debates about JESUS being GOD, I ask what is the names of your three gods?

We should depent on the Holy Ghost to help us and only by it will people understand who JESUS is.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Which lead to another problem, so many people think they have the Holy Ghost and never had.

I HAVE NO IDEA who does, or doens't for instance, when someone says when you first believe you get it some red flags goes up, no where do you seed that in HIS word.

Mark 16:16 believe AND baptized, they go together.

You are right it's the ones who is doing the teaching, but I was there once, he's the pracher so he's right, right?

That is why we are supose to keep man in check with HIS rule book.

OUR WORDS are very very important, we will be responsible for eveyone of them.

I don't know how to do as many do in here, show what you said and respond old dog don't do new tricks to well.

Hope you were able to follow, GOD BLESS YOU.

We should alwasy be humble and under constrution.

[/QUOTE]

"1. What if a person believes but has never been told he must be baptized?
A converted Muslim for instance.
A person living in a tribe in Africa.


2. What if I live in NYC and I come to believe and know I must be baptized, but I die in an accident and am never baptized.

What happend to these two person?"

The only way to get rid of ours sins is to be baptized in JESUS name.

Not my rules, sin will not enter Heaven!

Let me ask you this, why is this even debated?

Too many people throught out the years have said it's not nessary, and this is what we get.

GOD DOES NOT CHANGE!!!!!!!

I will add, those who started things like the man-made sinners prayer is going to be in real bad shape when they stand in front of JESUS.

John 3:16 says "SHOULD" not parish, becuse if you belive what JESUS said in John 3:5 you will obey and will not.

Romans 10:9 Paul is speaking to one of his churchs telling them to get out and coffess JESUS to say saved. Read down, how can they hear without a pracher.

You do understand your questiong HIS word right?

1 Peter 3:9 that's a part of it but I don't see that there?

1 Peter 3:9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

The rest of that was my resonse to you, right?

 

[Ouch]

@Ouch

Ouch...
I spent almost an hour responding to your post below.
Then it wouldn't post.
Then it psoted but was a mess.
§Then I was fixing it and the time ran out for editing.

This system is really bad but I guess it isn't going to change.


I've learned to save everything....which I did.
I'm going to just post your post and mine and I hope you can figure it out.
My words will be in green.

---------------------------------------------------------------




Don't we all.
And yet it seems we do not agree even on important matters.





1. What if a person believes but has never been told he must be baptized?
A converted Muslim for instance.
A person living in a tribe in Africa.


2. What if I live in NYC and I come to believe and know I must be baptized, but I die in an accident and am never baptized.

What happend to these two person?





Jesus stated that if we believe in Him we will be saved.
John 3:16


Paul said that if we believe God raised jesus from the dead,,,we will be saved.
Romans 10:9

Paul said that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
Romans 10:13


Peter said that if we repent, we will be saved.
1 Peter 3:9

What do we do with this type of verse?
Remove it from the NT?



Cornelius was saved because he was not aware of the gospel message until it was preached to him.

Not everyone who is saved has heard the gospel message.
Romans 2:20-21






Agreed...but just to clarify...
do you believe no one was saved before Jesus??
Not sure I'm understanding you.



If we believe that scripture is God-breathed, then we better believe that it was Jesus speaking through Peter.



Ouch,,,it's not up to you to proclaim who is saved and who is not.
I have to hope that God will have more mercy than YOU have!

How could a man fear (respect) God,
Pray to God
Teach God to his family

and be lost?

Because YOU make the rules for salvation?
I'd say that anyone in his shoes will be saved.

Obstinate refusal to be baptized MAY be harmful to a person's spiritual life.

And, as I've already stated,,,degigrating baptism,,,which JESUS commanded we do,,,
is also not recommended, IMHO.

Saying that it's like taking a bath, or a plunge is water,,,is disrespectful to Jesus, who ordered it.


1 of 2

I will check it out, I responded to a piece of it. Sorry

 

[Toknow]

Yes and Like the reformed/calvie/tulip folks..........Nary a mention of the life, death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. HIS WORKS for us.

The reformed/calvie/tulip folks rely on Sovereignty and the Armins rely on their works.........GRACE is anathema to both THEORIES.

Whatever you say Kroogz.

 

[Toknow]

It takes more than one discipline to deal with Scripture. There is a lot of logical error and flawed reasoning dealing with Scripture taking place in these discussions. WE should be doing a much better job after a few thousand years of being in Christ having the Text and the Spirit.

Yes sir.
But we do so love to read scripture all on our very own and come up with our very own religion.

I think that if we get our theology correct....the flaws will be held to a minimum.
However, yes, I wish I knew more philosophy...but too much, too late.

 

[Toknow]

Jesus gave the command to baptize in the name of... What name was Jesus referring to? The actions of His apostles supply the answer. They obeyed His command by consistently baptizing people in the name of Jesus. It is clear they understood a truth Paul reveals to the Colossians; In Jesus dwells all the fulness of the Godhead. (Col. 2:9-13)

What I was pointing out about ignorance being no excuse is that receiving the Holy Ghost, and having one's sin remitted in obedience to water baptism are essential elements of the NT rebirth. (John 3:3-5)

I believe Luke 12 references different degrees of punishment regarding ignorance relative to a born again believer's walk in general.

Why Cornelius and others were required to be water baptized in order to be saved is attested to in various places within scripture, Note first, God's truth concerning any topic is established by at least 2-3 scriptures. (Matt. 18:16, 2 Cor. 13:1) And scripture reveals (Acts 2:38) and confirms (Acts 8:12-18, 19:1-7) both receiving the Holy Ghost and being water baptized in the name of Jesus are requirements for everyone regardless of nationality. As such the same was required of Cornelius and those with him in order to be granted repentance unto life. (Acts 10:43-48, 11:15-18) Personally, I have come to believe in the possibility that the gospel requirements first presented in Acts 2:38, acted upon by those who placed their trust in Jesus, may actually address man's spirit, soul and body individually. (1 Thess. 5:23)

Lastly, I believe God will shine light on what He requires pertaining to the NT rebirth when hungry hearts seek Him. (Cornelius is a perfect example)

Jesus said; those who hunger and thirst after righteousness will be filled.

W
Your post to me above is a MESS.

And it's not YOUR fault.

It's the fault of the way Admin has the reply system set up.
It's a horror.

WHY it's not changed is a mystery to me.

Your words and my words are all mixed up and it seems like an interesting post from you.

Must leave now...might be too late when I get back.
So either then or tomorrow moring.
Sorry.

 

[studier]

Yes sir.
But we do so love to read scripture all on our very own and come up with our very own religion.

I think that if we get our theology correct....the flaws will be held to a minimum.
However, yes, I wish I knew more philosophy...but too much, too late.

You're apparently still breathing. Same for me and it's getting late in the day for me as well. Still studying, still learning. Much better than the so many other things I might be otherwise doing.

 

[studier]

OBEY means to OBEY.

Apparently, you don't like that word.

A common flaw among men & women, including "Christians".

 

[Toknow]

A common flaw among men & women, including "Christians".

LOL
Yes sir!

 

[Toknow]

View attachment 285825

View attachment 285826

Thanks Kinda.
That was pretty good !!

 

[markss]

This system is really bad but I guess it isn't going to change.

Sometimes I copy a post to my computer, write my reply, and then copy it back into a post. I also find the random verifications (click if you are human) causes me to lose posts. And I've seen that sometimes it didn't really need to be posted anyway.

Power in the Holy Spirit to guide our lives?

Much love!

 

[HeIsHere]

A common flaw among men & women, including "Christians".

Some people like to apply it to others but not themselves,

 

[kinda]

Thanks Kinda.
That was pretty good !!

Yeah, this topic needed some humor. I don't see it ending any time soon.

Romans 8:30

And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified

 

[mailmandan]

A rather convoluted reply.

Frankly, I don't understand it.
Maybe the other member does.

OBEY means to OBEY.

Apparently, you don't like that word.

John 3:36 NASB
36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not [a]obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 3:36 KJV
36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him .

To clarify:

It does not matter which version you like best.
The mean exactly the same.
In koine Greek to not believe means to not obey.

My reply was not convoluted. You seem to conflate obeying the Son by choosing to believe in the Son with obeying the Son after one believes and is saved. Again, to obey the Son here in (John 3:36) is to choose to believe in the Son, just as we read in John 3:18. Folks who conflate faith and works and teach salvation by faith and works typically stumble over the word "obey" in John 3:36. (NASB)