Loss of salvation???

[Genez]

I do love my boss as with everyone else. But I don’t work there because I love them. I work there to provide for my family. Now if my boss asked me to do something for him outside of work then I would do it out of love. I love people not brands and companies.

Agape love is not personal love.
Jesus commanded agape love for the believer.

Agape love can be seen as an impersonal love.
Not judging others as to condemn them.

Agape love makes to able to relax around people you might normally find offensive.
Agape comes with the filling of the Spirit.

 

[Kroogz]

I didn't claim to be misrepresented on doctrine. TULIP was never mentioned. The misrepresentation has to do with what people surmise as the underlying motivations of people holding such understanding.

You are a smart guy. This is not true.......It is the logical conclusion of the theory . God chooses(arbitrarily)some for eternal life and some for eternal damnation. None of us know the motivations of the people holding this understanding........But after a while, a person can make a pretty good judgement.

For example, someone said recently that those of the reformed faith don't believe in faith being a volitional act. This is simply not true and been explained many times.

Many of us have been saying this. Volitional is Freewill. Volitional is not a prescribed (by God) response.

Acts 16:31, John 3:16

 

[Kroogz]

Agape comes with the filling of the Spirit.

A Love we would never know without Him.

 

[Musicmaster]

Here's easy believism MM:

A member, on another Forum, who clearly stated that he could blaspheme God and STILL BE SAVED.
That is also known as greasy grace by some.

And THIS is what the non-biblical teaching by some of OSAS will bring to.

This incorrect teaching will CAUSE some to lose their salvation because they will be living lives of sin...
and the NT teaches that we are to live a very particular way.

Can you explain how anyone who truly believes in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ on the third day would then turn around and blaspheme God with unbelief? These fantastic hypotheticals prove nothing about the spiritual condition any any real person any of you know personally. If you think you know such a person, how did you verify the saved condition allegedly lost? I suspect none of you have ever known such a person and neither can you know the truth behind the salvation, or lack thereof, of anyone who later allegedly blasphemed God. The hypotheticals may seem plausible proof as a counter to the weaker minds of some, but they are fabled nonsense rooted in the false teachings filling so much of modern, liberal Evangelicalism and other -isms of many flavors.

What condition leads to such loss? You still have not yet defined that line, although you talk much. Do you know all those sins that allegedly lead to loss of sin? I have yet to see you or anyone else tackle that one. You all avoid it entirely.

What do you know of what's in the heart of another? Do you really think any hypothetical you can concoct in your mind will prove anything? What we know is what scripture says, in that when one truly believes, he is sealed by Holy Spirit and has the earnest of the Spirit unto salvation. If that lacks the permeance that you desire to believe in your life, then go ahead and try to work as hard as you can to supplement the Blood of Christ in saving you personally and to retain your salvation, then see where it leads. Go for it. Nobody is stopping you. Mock if you wish with labels of "easy believiesm" and whatever other labels of derision you have in your arsenal. (smile) It's all meaningless in relation to the lasting and complete work Christ does in the lives of ALL who truly believe.

The pretense that your sins are below the threshold of salvation loss, as if your brand of righteousness is somehow good enough to give to you the warm fuzzies for your salvation, then go for it. I'm not here to prod you on to anything other than what scripture states with the clarity of language and the perfection of Holy Spirit within all of us who are imperfect in and of ourselves.

If you have real questions, then ask. If you think it's unbiblical, then explain away the verses I've shared, providing counters with reason and coherent rebuttals without trying to cast in all manner of rabbit holes that distract away from the verses presented and let's see if your counters hold any measure of truth in relation to scripture.

MM

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Agape love is not personal love.
Jesus commanded agape love for the believer.

Agape love can be seen as an impersonal love.
Not judging others as to condemn them.

Agape love makes to able to relax around people you might normally find offensive.
Agape comes with the filling of the Spirit.

Ok

 

[Musicmaster]

But why do you assume that the other person is wrong?
Maybe you're wrong!
It's going on midnight here and your posts take time.

i did skim through.
The mystery Paul speaks of is that the Gentiles will be included in the family of God...the Body of Christ...
they will be grafted into the vine.

tomorrow...

Yes, they were indeed graft into the vine after the fall of Israel that once had ONLY Israel as it's branch before Israel was cut off and cast aside for a time but will be graft back in. That's what I was saying all along. Satan had Gentiles in his back pocket, so to speak. They had no hope because they were without Christ and without God in the world...GENTILES. Do you see that? Gentiles became Jews (Esther 8:17), joining with Israel as proselytes to join in with salvation.

So, do explore this more deeply.

MM

 

[sawdust]

I didn't claim to be misrepresented on doctrine. TULIP was never mentioned. The misrepresentation has to do with what people surmise as the underlying motivations of people holding such understanding.

I think the problem is you have taken so long to respond you have forgotten what was actually said.

@Kroogz said

@Cameron143 is reformed/calvie/tulip.

You responded

You don't have to sugar coat it, but you should actually stop misrepresenting others.

Both Reformed and Calvin covers a lot of doctrines so I asked about TULIP to narrow it down because by your own response, you don't wholly agree with TULIP as you consider it misrepresenting you.

If you do wholly agree with TULIP, then how you are being misrepresented by his statement?

Maybe you don't agree with everything Reformed or Calvin's doctrine but I didn't ask for something that broad.

 

[Cameron143]

I think the problem is you have taken so long to respond you have forgotten what was actually said.

@Kroogz said

You responded

Both Reformed and Calvin covers a lot of doctrines so I asked about TULIP to narrow it down because by your own response, you don't wholly agree with TULIP as you consider it misrepresenting you.

If you do wholly agree with TULIP, then how you are being misrepresented by his statement?

Maybe you don't agree with everything Reformed or Calvin's doctrine but I didn't ask for something that broad.

I gave you 3 examples of what I was referring to. Had nothing to do with doctrine. It had to do with intimations from misrepresenting the implications of doctrine. You see it or you don't. And I don't believe that was the only post I was responding to.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

you must not have extra marital relationships or your marriage will be jeapordized.

Whether you really desire to or not.......
nuff said.

good night.

So you do good works because you must to not lose your salvation?

 

[sawdust]

I gave you 3 examples of what I was referring to. Had nothing to do with doctrine. It had to do with intimations from misrepresenting the implications of doctrine. You see it or you don't. And I don't believe that was the only post I was responding to.

And I gave you what was actually said that prompted my question. I can't read your mind as to what might be in there from a dozen other posts that are not in the actual post to which you responded.

So do you adhere to all 5 points of TULIP or is that misrepresenting what you believe? Simple question, please try and give a truthful answer.

 

[Toknow]

Are you avoiding my question?

You mentioned "easy believism."

Did I misunderstand your intention?

Here's your post: https://christianchat.com/threads/loss-of-salvation.215327/post-5682223

.

Genez...
I NEVER avoid questions...you just don't know me yet.
I live in a different time zone...it was past midnight when we were discussing.

This is what you said:

Easy believism?
You mean we are to work hard for salvation?

Please find the post where I said that...
you won't because it does not exist.

I have repeatedly stated that man cannot work for his salvation.
In order to be saved we must have faith which is available through God's grace,
and which brings salvation.

So, yes. I'm tired of responding to this question.
If you care to continue you'll have to explain your position better or tell me how you disagree with this statement.

 

[Toknow]

Are you avoiding my question?

You mentioned "easy believism."

Did I misunderstand your intention?

Here's your post: https://christianchat.com/threads/loss-of-salvation.215327/post-5682223

.

Genez...
I NEVER avoid questions...you just don't know me yet.
I live in a different time zone...it was past midnight when we were discussing.
Could you please go back and clarify?

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Believing Jesus is God sans the Trinity is WORSE than modulism.

Modulism could be an incorrect understanding of the Trinity.
For instance, when I was teaching pre-teens our faith, I'd often use the example of a person...
a person could be a father, a brother, a son.
This is a heresy! But it helped to explain the Trinity to a 11/12 year old.
It's the heresy of modulism.

But believing Jesus is God makes TWO GODS....!
There's a member on aother forum that believes in 3 Gods...
you might know him.

I have great difficulty with those that want to claim they're of the Christian RELIGION
and yet have incorrect beliefs about the nature of Jesus or His personhood.

 

[Toknow]

Well, that's your mistake then isn't it. Others understood even if you didn't.



You say you agree with Heb.11:1 but then say faith is not a certainty? Take a look at the various translations that use words like assurance, conviction, reality, confident then try telling me faith is uncertainty. You confuse the faith of human volition (I believe) with biblical saving faith Heb.11:1 which comes from the word.



Again, not my fault you can't see the connections between faith, pleasing God and works. The good works God has planned for us is becoming like Christ. How that plays out in each individual life is for us to work out. Phil.2:12 We live by the Spirit. Gal.5:25



James made a simple statement that some cannot understand.

James 2:18
But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Dead faith isn't faith, that is James' point. Dead faith is someone simply saying they believe (human volition). This is why our faith is tested. It is why faith is said to be a gift because it does not originate with us but with the word of God. Rom.10:17

This is why salvation is grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. Our works are evidence of faith, not in addition to faith.

OK
You've offered about 3 different topics.

Which one would you like me to address?

As to faith...it's a word. Not spending any more time explaining it.

Think of this:
FAITH
HOPE
CHARITY/LOVE

When we get to heaven only LOVE will remain.
Why?

Because we will no longer need HOPE.
We will no longer need FAITH.

We need FAITH NOW because we live by faith.

 

[Toknow]

Sorry sis. I am not a sweet person. I never intend to be......But I am an honest person.

Acts 16:31........Deny it all you want. I won't let you. Neither will a few others here............Love, that you have NO CLUE about.

Your honesty does not behoove you.

Jesus said that if we hate, we have already committed murder.

In your heart, you hate.

If you're going to respond,,,please do so with scritpure that supports whatever idea you may have.

Personal comments will receive no further replies.

 

[Toknow]

Strewth woman!

Whose faith saw Jesus rise from the dead? His faith right? Now, because of His faith we too can have faith. In a way, His faith does save us for if He had not been faithful He would have not have risen and we would have been eternally condemned. After salvation we are to make His faith our faith.

Hebrews 12:2
looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.


The point of all this is that salvation is through faith whether it was Christ's own salvation from death or ours.

Jesus had faith??

You mean He wasn't GOD?

GOD needs faith?

 

[Toknow]

Thank you for your comments in this thread @Toknow , including your political statements and opinions which i agree with.
I have one question for you.

When you see a Sola Fide fellow and he's very happy and in peace with God, what's your first reaction to that?

A sola fide person could be saved.
WE are not to judge a person's soul.

However, we CAN judge his belief system.
Much heresy being spouted these days.
Paul warned about this happening.

So...
I'm very happy that the sola fide person is saved and worshipping God.
So happiness for him is the first reaction.

Now,,,if he's going to tell me that ONLY FAITH is all that is necessary to serve God...
then he will be receiving pushback because that is NOT what Jesus taught or Paul or any of the writers of the NT.

 

[Ouch]

I see you didn’t quite me saying what you accused me of saying.

So you’re gonna go with the identity issue option? Jesus called Himself His Son while also descending onto Himself like a bird.

I explained John 3:13 to you but you seem to think that the original texts are wrong and the KJV is the only true Bible in the world.

Stalemate.

All puffed up you are, do you know JESUS can only use the humble?

Your the one who is saying JESUS has Identity issures.

How did you explain John 3:13?? YOU DID NOT.

If you get out of your box, and look at John 3:13 and others you would be able to "SEE". I'm thinking of John 3:3.

Still stuck on translations? I told you if that's your hang up I'M DONE!!!

That is your only defence!!!

WHERE ARE YOUR gods NAMES????

I ask you as Paul asked, HAVE YOU received the Holy Ghost since you have believed???

Of course use whatever book you what since you have a problem with GOD'S WORD.

Acts 19
King James Version
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


If you did, was it like verse 6? or Acts 2:4??

If not HOW WERE YOU BAPTTIZED????

 

[Toknow]

Can you explain how anyone who truly believes in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ on the third day would then turn around and blaspheme God with unbelief? These fantastic hypotheticals prove nothing about the spiritual condition any any real person any of you know personally. If you think you know such a person, how did you verify the saved condition allegedly lost? I suspect none of you have ever known such a person and neither can you know the truth behind the salvation, or lack thereof, of anyone who later allegedly blasphemed God. The hypotheticals may seem plausible proof as a counter to the weaker minds of some, but they are fabled nonsense rooted in the false teachings filling so much of modern, liberal Evangelicalism and other -isms of many flavors.

i don't have to explain WHY someone may turn away from God after knowing Him.

Jesus said that it's possible:

Luke 8:13
13 Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; [a]they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.


Jesus said they receive the WORD with joy.
Jesus said they BELIEVE FOR A WHILE.
FOR A WHILE.
BELIEVE means salvation...so they were saved for a while.

Jesus said they fell away.
Fell away from what??
Belief.
Salvation.

in THIS case...due to temptation.
There are OTHER REASONS throughout scripture.

Since you've read the NT...I'm sure you must be familiar with some of them.

What condition leads to such loss? You still have not yet defined that line, although you talk much. Do you know all those sins that allegedly lead to loss of sin? I have yet to see you or anyone else tackle that one. You all avoid it entirely.

Jesus said there are other conditions.
One is the desire to get to know the outside world.
He did teach about this in one of His parables.

Another reason He stated is due to fear of doing wrong.
Do you not know that parable either? More than one, actually.

We should believe what Jesus taught.

What do you know of what's in the heart of another? Do you really think any hypothetical you can concoct in your mind will prove anything? What we know is what scripture says,

Do you know scripture?

Then please post scripture instead of writing a thesis.

in that when one truly believes, he is sealed by Holy Spirit and has the earnest of the Spirit unto salvation. If that lacks the permeance that you desire to believe in your life, then go ahead and try to work as hard as you can to supplement the Blood of Christ in saving you personally and to retain your salvation, then see where it leads. Go for it. Nobody is stopping you. Mock if you wish with labels of "easy believiesm" and whatever other labels of derision you have in your arsenal. (smile) It's all meaningless in relation to the lasting and complete work Christ does in the lives of ALL who truly believe.

Waiting for scripture.

The pretense that your sins are below the threshold of salvation loss, as if your brand of righteousness is somehow good enough to give to you the warm fuzzies for your salvation, then go for it. I'm not here to prod you on to anything other than what scripture states with the clarity of language and the perfection of Holy Spirit within all of us who are imperfect in and of ourselves.

If you have real questions, then ask. If you think it's unbiblical, then explain away the verses I've shared, providing counters with reason and coherent rebuttals without trying to cast in all manner of rabbit holes that distract away from the verses presented and let's see if your counters hold any measure of truth in relation to scripture.

MM

Sir,,,I have no questions for you.
You do not even know what it means to be sealed in the Holy Spirit.

Please respond with scripture or not at all.
Thanks.

 

[Toknow]

So you do good works because you must to not lose your salvation?

Does anybody around here use scripture?

You said you work at your job for your boss so you don't lose your job.

So you OBEY your boss so you won't lose your job.

What do you think it will mean not to obey GOD...
to trample HIM udnerfoot??

(guess you didn't catch my analogy about marriage - no matter, analogies don't really work).


Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 and then have fallen away,


Note:

1. Some have been enlightened.
They have TASTED of the heavenly gift (what is it?)
They have been made PARTAKERS of the Holy Spirit.

2. And THEN they have fallen away....

 

[Ouch]

What did you tell your mother and father to get born the first time?

Born again - means you receive from the Spirit a human spirit to know the things of God with.

You get reborn by believing in Jesus Christ.

It is supposed to be easy to do...

So easy... even a child can do it,

Jesus said, “Leave the little children alone, and don’t try to keep them from coming to me, ​

because the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” Matthew 19:14​

​

The reason you are having apparent difficulties is because you are not getting the right teachings so that you and the Holy Spirit can be one with each other to experientially overcome the world.

You will never find the needed teachings in a Pentecostal church.

You are always giving people personl advice, WHY?

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?????

You shared 1 John like you found a gold mine, and I put it in the proper context then this????

Since you think all we need to do is beleive, can you read these two verse and tell me what they say and mean PLEASE????

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

No need for any of you personl attacts, JUST STICK WITH HIS WORD.