Loss of salvation???

[Just_A__Follower]

LOL
No sir.

"we desire to" is nice and i know and agree that we desire to.

Problem is that God gives commands and not suggestions.

The word MUST will remain.

I must do what my boss at work asks me to do because I don’t want to get fired.

I desire to do what my wife asks me to do because I love her and want to please her.

We have rules at work and we have love at home.

Do we follow His commandments as to not lose our salvation or do we follow His commandments out of love so that it pleases Him?

 

[Kroogz]

So has @Genez convinced you that a born again person has no need for WATER baptism?
What does your church teach you??

Sorry bud. You are the same as the calvie/reformed/tulips. You did a face plant at the starting line and cannot continue until you spit the dirt out........Water isn't going to clean you up.

 

[Toknow]

I must do what my boss at work asks me to do because I don’t want to get fired.

I desire to do what my wife asks me to do because I love her and want to please her.

We have rules at work and we have love at home.

Do we follow His commandments as to not lose our salvation or do we follow His commandments out of love so that it pleases Him?

you must not have extra marital relationships or your marriage will be jeapordized.

Whether you really desire to or not.......
nuff said.

good night.

 

[Toknow]

Sorry bud. You are the same as the calvie/reformed/tulips. You did a face plant at the starting line and cannot continue until you spit the dirt out........Water isn't going to clean you up.

LOL
Again...
I'm not a bud.

You're a sweet person.

A good example of a Christian.

John 13:35
35 By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

 

[Genez]

AMEN, but that is after we have been reborn.

JESUS knows we can not go through life without sinning, so after we are reborn all we need to do is repent and confess those sins to HIM.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1 Corinthians 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

That is why Paul says I die daily, we all have to.

How do we get reborn?

What did you tell your mother and father to get born the first time?

Born again - means you receive from the Spirit a human spirit to know the things of God with.

You get reborn by believing in Jesus Christ.

It is supposed to be easy to do...

So easy... even a child can do it,

Jesus said, “Leave the little children alone, and don’t try to keep them from coming to me, ​

because the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” Matthew 19:14​

​

The reason you are having apparent difficulties is because you are not getting the right teachings so that you and the Holy Spirit can be one with each other to experientially overcome the world.

You will never find the needed teachings in a Pentecostal church.

 

[Cameron143]

I must do what my boss at work asks me to do because I don’t want to get fired.

I desire to do what my wife asks me to do because I love her and want to please her.

We have rules at work and we have love at home.

Do we follow His commandments as to not lose our salvation or do we follow His commandments out of love so that it pleases Him?

Why not obey your boss as unto the Lord and fulfill the law while loving both Christ and boss?

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Why not obey your boss as unto the Lord and fulfill the law while loving both Christ and boss?

I do love my boss as with everyone else. But I don’t work there because I love them. I work there to provide for my family. Now if my boss asked me to do something for him outside of work then I would do it out of love. I love people not brands and companies.

 

[Genez]

I must do what my boss at work asks me to do because I don’t want to get fired.

I desire to do what my wife asks me to do because I love her and want to please her.

We have rules at work and we have love at home.

Do we follow His commandments as to not lose our salvation or do we follow His commandments out of love so that it pleases Him?

We can not lose our salvation.
But a believer can surely forfeit the benefits one can enjoy and be blessed by in salvation.

........

 

[Genez]

Had enough nonsense for this evening Genez.

I'm already saved...
I don't have to work for it.

Works do not save.
Obeying Jesus does.

good night.

Are you avoiding my question?

You mentioned "easy believism."

Did I misunderstand your intention?

Here's your post: https://christianchat.com/threads/loss-of-salvation.215327/post-5682223

.

 

[mailmandan]

I have some news for you ouch.

If you believe Jesus is God but do not believe in the Trinity, it actually DOES mean you believe there are two God's.

It's heretical.

There is only one God.

 

[sawdust]

sawdust,,,,
This is what you stated...see my post no. 5852:

"I wonder how many do good works out of guilt or fear instead of seeing them flow naturally from their faith as James indicated?"


It seems to me that you're stating that some do good works out of guilt or fear.
You did NOT mention those without faith...so I believed you were speaking about Christians since that's what was being discussed.

Well, that's your mistake then isn't it. Others understood even if you didn't.

FAITH is a noun.
BELIEVE is a verb.

If a person BELIEVES in someone
they have FAITH in that person.

Faith is a component of Belief.

Faith is not a certainty.
That's why it's faith.

I'll leave it at that.

You say you agree with Heb.11:1 but then say faith is not a certainty? Take a look at the various translations that use words like assurance, conviction, reality, confident then try telling me faith is uncertainty. You confuse the faith of human volition (I believe) with biblical saving faith Heb.11:1 which comes from the word.

Hebrews 11:6 does not support what you've posted.

Hebrews 11:6
6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

It's stating that we need faith in order to please God.
It says that God rewards those who seek Him.

It IS stating that our faith pleases God...
but I don't see the connection to what you've stated about works.

IOW..
HOW would you know what works God has planned for you?
WHAT do you think good works are??

Again, not my fault you can't see the connections between faith, pleasing God and works. The good works God has planned for us is becoming like Christ. How that plays out in each individual life is for us to work out. Phil.2:12 We live by the Spirit. Gal.5:25

James made a simple statement that some cannot accept.
He said that faith without works is a dead faith.
IOW,,,for our faith to be ALIVE....it must have good works..
or it is dead.

James 2:17
17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is [p]dead, being by itself.

James made a simple statement that some cannot understand.

James 2:18
But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Dead faith isn't faith, that is James' point. Dead faith is someone simply saying they believe (human volition). This is why our faith is tested. It is why faith is said to be a gift because it does not originate with us but with the word of God. Rom.10:17

This is why salvation is grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. Our works are evidence of faith, not in addition to faith.

 

[Kroogz]

LOL
Again...
I'm not a bud.

You're a sweet person.

A good example of a Christian.

John 13:35
35 By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Sorry sis. I am not a sweet person. I never intend to be......But I am an honest person.

Acts 16:31........Deny it all you want. I won't let you. Neither will a few others here............Love, that you have NO CLUE about.

 

[sawdust]

Are you now saying that it's JESUS' faith that saves us
and not OURS?

I do apologize sawdust...
but you make comments that are not very clear to me.

Strewth woman!

Whose faith saw Jesus rise from the dead? His faith right? Now, because of His faith we too can have faith. In a way, His faith does save us for if He had not been faithful He would have not have risen and we would have been eternally condemned. After salvation we are to make His faith our faith.

Hebrews 12:2
looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.


The point of all this is that salvation is through faith whether it was Christ's own salvation from death or ours.

 

[sawdust]

Hey @Cameron143

Still waiting for your answer regarding with what part of TULIP you disagree?

I am genuinely interested in knowing as it might be a place we can connect. Not looking to debate you on it. Just want to see why you think you are misrepresented by the claim you hold to the doctrines of TULIP.

If you don't want to answer, that's ok, but would be nice if you could let me know please.

 

[Kroogz]

Strewth woman!

Whose faith saw Jesus rise from the dead? His faith right? Now, because of His faith we too can have faith. In a way, His faith does save us for if He had not been faithful He would have not have risen and we would have been eternally condemned. After salvation we are to make His faith our faith.

Hebrews 12:2
looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.


The point of all this is that salvation is through faith whether it was Christ's own salvation from death or ours.

That is the go to isn't it? You don't understand and misrepresent........Funny how all of them do not self reflect and ask, "WHY?"

If we want the truth, we will receive it. If we want our truth..............We will fight tooth and nail for it.

 

[Eli1]

Thank you for your comments in this thread @Toknow , including your political statements and opinions which i agree with.
I have one question for you.

When you see a Sola Fide fellow and he's very happy and in peace with God, what's your first reaction to that?

 

[Kroogz]

We can not lose our salvation.
But a believer can surely forfeit the benefits one can enjoy and be blessed by in salvation.

........

@Genez This is so key for moving forward in the Christian way of life.....And it is so attacked by this world, that FEW can see it.

In the world and its deception , it is only:

Not really saved.

Loss/forfeit/walk away/jump out of salvation.

Works based.

Christ based, Grace and Knowledge based believers Know your above statement is the Truth.

 

[Kroogz]

Our works are evidence of faith, not in addition to faith.

This is a HUGE question. What works? What fruit?


The wolves can deceive the majority. The chaff sit amongst us.........The loss of salvation/ not really saved crowd can't definitively tell us the works and fruit required.

Why? Because they have subjective works that save them. Their works are an outward expression, if you don't follow their works/fruits/deeds you were not really saved or will lose salvation.

When "works/fruits/deeds" might be a single mom who learns doctrine and raises her kids unto the Lord. She could very well NEVER overtly feed the poor, become a sweetheart or impact the world that they think she needs to.

Invisible heros. The loss of salvation crowd needs VISIBLE heros, that's their nest and reason for salvation.

 

[Cameron143]

Hey @Cameron143

Still waiting for your answer regarding with what part of TULIP you disagree?

I am genuinely interested in knowing as it might be a place we can connect. Not looking to debate you on it. Just want to see why you think you are misrepresented by the claim you hold to the doctrines of TULIP.

If you don't want to answer, that's ok, but would be nice if you could let me know please.

I didn't claim to be misrepresented on doctrine. TULIP was never mentioned. The misrepresentation has to do with what people surmise as the underlying motivations of people holding such understanding.

For example, someone said recently that those of the reformed faith don't believe in faith being a volitional act. This is simply not true and been explained many times. Another example, concerning election that happened recently. Those of the reformed faith hate others, believe God predestined people for h3ll, and think highly of themselves. Others have postulate that those with conflicting views have had poor teachers, and are here on the site with the sole purpose of creating divisions and leading others astray.

I could go on, but to what end? And the very people who do such, and seem to view themselves as guardians of the faith, demonstrate behaviors that clearly are antithetical to walking in the Spirit. Yet an honest appeal to their spiritual nature is always rebuffed as they cannot self-evaluate because they lack self-awareness.

If you like, I'll bring such posts to your attention for you to evaluate on your own. For my part, I have started limiting myself to responding to some posters, and never initiate with them any longer. I'll just look for where God is working and join in.

 

[Genez]

Thank you for your comments in this thread @Toknow , including your political statements and opinions which i agree with.
I have one question for you.

When you see a Sola Fide fellow and he's very happy and in peace with God, what's your first reaction to that?

Sola fide, or "faith alone,"

What is beyond Sola Fide that we need to be saved by?
What else is there?