Loss of salvation???
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Ephesians 2 verse 10 ~ We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unot good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
She started out looking like this:
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The word "name" and "title" were used interchangeably.
Context would dictate it's meaning.
Jesus's name? Is, "Jesus."
Not, King of kings and Lord of lords." (Rev 19:16)
That "name" was the title for Jesus!
Sometimes it is surprising to see how our understanding would be quite different if said today.
grace and peace .............
Context would dictate it's meaning.
Jesus's name? Is, "Jesus."
Not, King of kings and Lord of lords." (Rev 19:16)
That "name" was the title for Jesus!
On his robe and on his thigh, he has this name written:
King of kings and lord of lords."
The better Bible teachers are able to present what words meant at the time of writing. Sometimes it is surprising to see how our understanding would be quite different if said today.
grace and peace .............
James spoke of justification in relation to works as one of the two prime elements, not salvation itself being derived only from works. That is what I wrote about. I never said he spoke of work's-based salvation as a stand-alone element.
For clarification, James wrote about one's faith being established, or manifested as genuine and real, on the basis of works.
Does that help?
MM
For clarification, James wrote about one's faith being established, or manifested as genuine and real, on the basis of works.
Does that help?
MM
I don't understand your question because baptism is indeed in that verse as one of two elements necessary for their salvation at that time.
So, rather than stumbling through the dark to try and understand what it is you're thinking, suffice it to say that the conclusion to what that verse is saying, and what it did not say, is that if one doesn't believe, then the lack baptism is of no consequence. There's no reason therefore for the writer to have stated the obvious.
That verse clearly shows to us that faith coupled with baptism was the measure of evidence for a true faith. That's what was expected of them. It really is that simple. If they didn't have faith but were merely religious and thus lacking true faith, then baptism would avail nothing.
The inevitable rabbit hole some are bound to fall into is, "What about those who get baptized without true faith, but making others believe that they do have true faith?"
To those who would ask that, look, it doesn't matter what others think about the genuineness of another's faith, because that will ultimately have no bearing upon that individual back then who got baptized without genuine faith. That's on them, so why worry about such trivial things. When someone asks such a silly question, that only causes me to wonder about them and their faith, had I lived back then under that Kingdom Gospel.
You're right. The temporary passing away of the Kingdom Gospel and its ability to save anyone did indeed diminish with the firm establishment of the Gospel of Grace as the ONLY way to salvation. When something is unmerited, then no work can possibly bolster it, for it is UNMERITED (to those out there who seem to always miss the obvious). Paul argued this to the point of bruises to ego.
Don't worry, though, because the Kingdom Gospel will once again be in full force for the Jews. It's coming, but not to us who are in the body of Christ, for we will be redeemed from this world before that ever takes place...we who have accepted the work-less salvation that is only possible through the Gospel of Grace. The Hebrew Roots and Orthodox Jews who believe they are saved with works as a prime element for salvation, they are at the mercy of the Lord and His perfect judgement upon them as to if they ultimately will be saved or not.
MM
So, rather than stumbling through the dark to try and understand what it is you're thinking, suffice it to say that the conclusion to what that verse is saying, and what it did not say, is that if one doesn't believe, then the lack baptism is of no consequence. There's no reason therefore for the writer to have stated the obvious.
That verse clearly shows to us that faith coupled with baptism was the measure of evidence for a true faith. That's what was expected of them. It really is that simple. If they didn't have faith but were merely religious and thus lacking true faith, then baptism would avail nothing.
The inevitable rabbit hole some are bound to fall into is, "What about those who get baptized without true faith, but making others believe that they do have true faith?"
To those who would ask that, look, it doesn't matter what others think about the genuineness of another's faith, because that will ultimately have no bearing upon that individual back then who got baptized without genuine faith. That's on them, so why worry about such trivial things. When someone asks such a silly question, that only causes me to wonder about them and their faith, had I lived back then under that Kingdom Gospel.
You're right. The temporary passing away of the Kingdom Gospel and its ability to save anyone did indeed diminish with the firm establishment of the Gospel of Grace as the ONLY way to salvation. When something is unmerited, then no work can possibly bolster it, for it is UNMERITED (to those out there who seem to always miss the obvious). Paul argued this to the point of bruises to ego.
Don't worry, though, because the Kingdom Gospel will once again be in full force for the Jews. It's coming, but not to us who are in the body of Christ, for we will be redeemed from this world before that ever takes place...we who have accepted the work-less salvation that is only possible through the Gospel of Grace. The Hebrew Roots and Orthodox Jews who believe they are saved with works as a prime element for salvation, they are at the mercy of the Lord and His perfect judgement upon them as to if they ultimately will be saved or not.
MM
You spoke that in present tense, and nobody here ever stated that Jews today are saved any differently than Gentiles. Therefore, your reading comprehension skills were lacking in this regard for whatever reason and agenda you have on your plate. Please read what people actually said rather than invent trash that nobody ever stated. This kind of trash talk is tiring to say the least...
MM
MM
In Christ, we're all one, but for the sake of conversation, you Gentiles who merely follow after peripheral elements of replacement theology that are not so easily recognized for what they are, you really need to get off your high horse.
Ephesians 2:11-18
11 Wherefore remember, that ye (Gentiles) being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus (who in the flesh was a Jew) ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
You Gentiles once had to become a Jew to come nigh unto Christ, for He came ONLY to us Jews, but that was laid aside for this time of grace, and most Gentiles I converse with absolutely deny these facts stated in parallel meaning contained in these very verses. Why so many Gentiles are unthankful about salvation having COME TO them, I have no clue.
Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they (Israel) stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Logic, reason and critical thinking seems to be lost skills that were once taught in public education. These days, the social engineering that is so rampant in schools has blocked out these skills. For those incapable of seeing the deeper meaning in the works written, salvation CAME to Gentiles through the fall of Israel, meaning that Gentiles no longer had to become Jews to find salvation AND become partakers of the promises for blessing from Abraham. Apart from that, you Gentiles were WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD! Does that register to everyone?
The anti-Semitism that manifests mostly unnoticed because of it all being miniscule in the words and attitudes of so many, we who are the targets of such see it more clearly than those who vomit it out without ever taking notice of their sin. All of that has only pushed many of us to greater levels of strength and commitment to the purity of scripture and the desire for unity in the faith.
The desire for that unity is a reason why I love my Gentile brothers and sisters. Those who don't want any part of us, I leave them in the Hands of the Lord for Him to deal with as He wishes.
The trashiness of liberal theology that unashamedly pushes the agenda of replacement theology, they are subject to things that they bring upon themselves. I leave them to their father who is Satan. They are less than a penny a thousand. Most Evangelical pulpits are sources for the hate and disregard for truth as portrayed in scripture, and they I leave in the Hands of the Most High. They gravitate toward ethereal, allegorical interpretations that have no grounding in absolutes, thus their feeling that they have license to make scripture way what they want. Go for it. It's on them who practice such.
I hope these scriptures once again bring to mind that Israel has fallen, with salvation coming TO you Gentiles, undeserved, unearned, unmerited, and that we Jews are right here with you...we who have earned nothing more than Hell itself right along with you. This should push you Gentiles to greater levels of praise toward the Most High who is worthy for what He has done for YOU. That we Jews can be saved just as you, without adherence to the commandments, we too are blessed.
Amen
MM
Ephesians 2:11-18
11 Wherefore remember, that ye (Gentiles) being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus (who in the flesh was a Jew) ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
You Gentiles once had to become a Jew to come nigh unto Christ, for He came ONLY to us Jews, but that was laid aside for this time of grace, and most Gentiles I converse with absolutely deny these facts stated in parallel meaning contained in these very verses. Why so many Gentiles are unthankful about salvation having COME TO them, I have no clue.
Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they (Israel) stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Logic, reason and critical thinking seems to be lost skills that were once taught in public education. These days, the social engineering that is so rampant in schools has blocked out these skills. For those incapable of seeing the deeper meaning in the works written, salvation CAME to Gentiles through the fall of Israel, meaning that Gentiles no longer had to become Jews to find salvation AND become partakers of the promises for blessing from Abraham. Apart from that, you Gentiles were WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD! Does that register to everyone?
The anti-Semitism that manifests mostly unnoticed because of it all being miniscule in the words and attitudes of so many, we who are the targets of such see it more clearly than those who vomit it out without ever taking notice of their sin. All of that has only pushed many of us to greater levels of strength and commitment to the purity of scripture and the desire for unity in the faith.
The desire for that unity is a reason why I love my Gentile brothers and sisters. Those who don't want any part of us, I leave them in the Hands of the Lord for Him to deal with as He wishes.
The trashiness of liberal theology that unashamedly pushes the agenda of replacement theology, they are subject to things that they bring upon themselves. I leave them to their father who is Satan. They are less than a penny a thousand. Most Evangelical pulpits are sources for the hate and disregard for truth as portrayed in scripture, and they I leave in the Hands of the Most High. They gravitate toward ethereal, allegorical interpretations that have no grounding in absolutes, thus their feeling that they have license to make scripture way what they want. Go for it. It's on them who practice such.
I hope these scriptures once again bring to mind that Israel has fallen, with salvation coming TO you Gentiles, undeserved, unearned, unmerited, and that we Jews are right here with you...we who have earned nothing more than Hell itself right along with you. This should push you Gentiles to greater levels of praise toward the Most High who is worthy for what He has done for YOU. That we Jews can be saved just as you, without adherence to the commandments, we too are blessed.
Amen
MM
Wow,the hatred is almost palpable there.
Trash talk is anyone who states or implies present tense or past,that Salvation is different for any people group than it is for any other.
You use to dominate CFS.com until you were put in your place.
You'll post fiction as to why you left but others know the truth.
Now you're here trying to do the same thing.
The attempt at insulting writing styles,grammar, is just another sign of arrogance and a sense of superiority.
When someone lies about Jesus in any way, they're not a teacher. They're Satanic.
Get the behind me
Trash talk is anyone who states or implies present tense or past,that Salvation is different for any people group than it is for any other.
You use to dominate CFS.com until you were put in your place.
You'll post fiction as to why you left but others know the truth.
Now you're here trying to do the same thing.
The attempt at insulting writing styles,grammar, is just another sign of arrogance and a sense of superiority.
When someone lies about Jesus in any way, they're not a teacher. They're Satanic.
Get the behind me
No hatred, just recognizing the level of subjectivity you apply to others in relation to yourself. It's just sad, that's all. I feel sorry for you that you would go so far as to downplay your own words into being basically meaningless, as if the rest of us are supposed to see beyond the barrier of our screens into your very mind. I mean, come on...
So, if you would, please explain your real meaning given that we can't trust even the tense of your words as having any real meaning. If you would refrain from putting words into the words of others, why not read what we write for what it says. If I had fat-fingered something, then I will admit it and clarify, all without putting words in the mouths of others.
That you never did even address what you forced into my words, that speaks loud volumes here.
MM
So, if you would, please explain your real meaning given that we can't trust even the tense of your words as having any real meaning. If you would refrain from putting words into the words of others, why not read what we write for what it says. If I had fat-fingered something, then I will admit it and clarify, all without putting words in the mouths of others.
That you never did even address what you forced into my words, that speaks loud volumes here.
MM
To be fair @Musicmaster, Did you miss this part of his post?
~~~~
"There is no such thing as past tense Salvation compared to present tense Salvation in Christ."
~~~~
Salvation/eternal life has been the same for every individual in every age.
~~~~
"There is no such thing as past tense Salvation compared to present tense Salvation in Christ."
~~~~
Salvation/eternal life has been the same for every individual in every age.