Loss of salvation???

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Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
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Figuratively for lost, perished, given up as dead, e.g., the prodigal son (Lk 15:24,32). Equal to apolōlṓs from apóllumi (622), to perish, lose.

Also, wouldn’t that dispute the Hebrews verses many like to quote. They say that once lost that they can never return.
If the prodigal son had not come to his senses, he would have stayed lost and stayed dead.
Figuratively or not.
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
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lamar, look at it this way: if everyone believed what you believe in about losing your salvation because of turning into an apostate, how would anyone know if they are saved? that doesn't make sense. the Holy Spirit authored the Bible & God made sure their is a way for us to KNOW TOTALLY that we are saved. once saved always saved is what God established. also, if not OSAS, how would anyone know if they're saved? how many times do you have to get saved & when will you know you're saved?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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"a bad heart"???

You read the story of the prodigal son and you come away with he had a "bad heart"?

The Father called the son dead and lost not with a bad heart?

The Father never described the prodigal son like his older brother.

What part of the verbiage in the story did you get "a bad heart"?

I suspect you simply want the scriptures to say this.
Just spitballing here, it might be we need a new Heart as said in Ezekiel 36:26. If God gives this, then will we not change from inside out?
Born again from God is to me, being given that new heart in the risen Son isn't it? I just know to love in mercy and truth from Risen Son given me to just love all in the same measure as I am loved by God first
Therefore I see to not fear, even though this unredeemed flesh I am in fears and fights and argues and wants to be nothing but right and followers under them
No!!! Thank you
I see to stand in Thanksgiving and Praise with all sin taken away by Son on that cross for us all. To be thankful, since I know I am not perfect only God is. At least to me this is truth beyond measure

I know how many times, I have sinned over and over and over again and again and again, not wanting to. And God never leaving me or forsaking me. In my response I get, got thanksgiving and praise
Psalm 100:4, 103:12 asked for the new Heart and am given it, along with all the other believers too.
The risen Jesus is where this new life is at to live new. The Death was for reconciliation to all, no life in reconciliation and no perfection in anyone trying to do Law.
Move from death to life in trust to Father it is done for you to be new and not be the old you anymore. Not having to try, when it is given you as that takes time for anyone to go through this truth of troublers first, not, to not say you will never go through troubles anymore here on earth, that is a lie!
God does just love us all y'all
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
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did you read the verses i mentioned? if you are a born again Christian, how ever will you know if you are saved. you may turn into an apostate. how will you know if you are going to turn into an apostate? what's the sense in becoming born again if you never know your saved? study & learn those verses i mentioned & hopefully you'll get it. blessings to you always.
Did you read the parable of the unforgiving servant? The servant lost his forgiveness.

Its purpose of the parable is to rebuke such foolishness as OSAS presents.

Personal claims of being born again do not prove you are saved nor does it prove that you will not turn into an apostate.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
955
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lamar, look at it this way: if everyone believed what you believe in about losing your salvation because of turning into an apostate, how would anyone know if they are saved? that doesn't make sense. the Holy Spirit authored the Bible & God made sure their is a way for us to KNOW TOTALLY that we are saved. once saved always saved is what God established. also, if not OSAS, how would anyone know if they're saved? how many times do you have to get saved & when will you know you're saved?
Are you talking about individual personal claims of salvation? Yes or No?
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
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Are you talking about individual personal claims of salvation? Yes or No?
i'm talking about just what we started on: salvation & once saved always saved! you said earlier you can lose your salvation by becoming an apostate. if that's true, the person was never saved in the 1st place.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
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i'm talking about just what we started on: salvation & once saved always saved! you said earlier you can lose your salvation by becoming an apostate. if that's true, the person was never saved in the 1st place.
Unless you can give a simple yes or no response to this question I cannot give you a proper answer.

I will ask the question again. Are you talking about individual personal claims of salvation? Yes or No?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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lamar, look at it this way: if everyone believed what you believe in about losing your salvation because of turning into an apostate, how would anyone know if they are saved? that doesn't make sense. the Holy Spirit authored the Bible & God made sure their is a way for us to KNOW TOTALLY that we are saved. once saved always saved is what God established. also, if not OSAS, how would anyone know if they're saved? how many times do you have to get saved & when will you know you're saved?
the Enemy, evil, not the people here replying, the evil of this world
Uses
Doubt, fear, anger, to get to us the people in belief to not see clearly, evil especially goes after those that see they are born again by God and only give God all the credit as Jesus did during his entire earth walk.100% dependent on Father.
You see, all anyone needs is just a modicum of doubt, to not be confident.
As said by God through Isaiah Chapter 7:1-9 They were told what God was going to do, and Were told if they doubt, then they will not be established. Amazing, how deep, high and wide does that go?
I have no doubt God will and does carry on God's done work through all the that believe God. God puts up with us all, even though not one of us is perfect ever of the self, ever. Anyone stop 100% sin in them?? Anyone??
God by son made us as perfect, as if I, you or no one else ever sinned Col 1:21-23
Amazing. And that continues in you, you, you and me too. That is amazing grace that is from God as sufficient from God to us the children to praise and worship God only, at least me.
All others, that you think you can lose salvation is not from God to you, it is you that first born flesh of you in doubt. Thinking, if you do this and or that, then you not in, Really????????????/ You kick you out in doubt, God does not do that, you do it, by not believing God (Phil 1:6)
If that is you, doubting then you do not know this loving God I know in mercy of Son for us to be new in
love and mercy to everyone as he did that on that cross for us all, to be first reconciled as forgiven. to see in thanksgiving and praise all sin first taken away, so we can be born new in God's Spirit and Truth, thank you.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,723
554
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Did you read the parable of the unforgiving servant? The servant lost his forgiveness.
The person never had it or saw it as good for them to be given it, Unbelief. Is what began the fallen race of people to begin with, the first Adam
Then the second Adam (Jesus Christ) to return to belief to God. Father knows best, and I am in process learning truth over error, as all are here on earth also in process. Some believing and some not yet
There is a final choice to be made and that will be done consciously, as then there can be no excuse for anyone to use to say, Hey God I did not know.
All know from within themselves. What is good and bad, I personally choose God the only one good, have a blessed day
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
955
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The person never had it or saw it as good for them to be given it, Unbelief. Is what began the fallen race of people to begin with, the first Adam
Then the second Adam (Jesus Christ) to return to belief to God. Father knows best, and I am in process learning truth over error, as all are here on earth also in process. Some believing and some not yet
There is a final choice to be made and that will be done consciously, as then there can be no excuse for anyone to use to say, Hey God I did not know.
All know from within themselves. What is good and bad, I personally choose God the only one good, have a blessed day
I have no earthly idea of what you are talking about.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
955
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i'm talking about just what we started on: salvation & once saved always saved! you said earlier you can lose your salvation by becoming an apostate. if that's true, the person was never saved in the 1st place.
Was the servant truly forgiven of his debt by the master? Yes.
Did the servant lose his forgiveness later? Yes.

These questions are simple to answer.

This is the purpose of the parable. Why are you tap dancing around this simple truth?
 

sawdust

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Feb 12, 2024
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Are you talking about individual personal claims of salvation? Yes or No?
Has nothing to do with personal claims. Either God saves you and keeps you saved or He doesn't. No-one is more powerful than God and He finishes what He begins.

Philippians 1:6
being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

No-one saves themselves not do they keep themself saved and God is not a fair weather friend dropping you like a hot cake because you don't measure up.
 

sawdust

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Feb 12, 2024
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Was the servant truly forgiven of his debt by the master? Yes.
Did the servant lose his forgiveness later? Yes.

These questions are simple to answer.

This is the purpose of the parable. Why are you tap dancing around this simple truth?
And the parable is about forgiveness, not salvation. If you are saved, you are in Christ where all forgiveness is to be found and cannot be revoked or lost. One's failure to utilize their position whether through ignorance or willful stupidity does not mean God has removed salvation from them so that they are once again dead.
 

Lamar

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May 21, 2023
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And the parable is about forgiveness, not salvation. If you are saved, you are in Christ where all forgiveness is to be found and cannot be revoked or lost. One's failure to utilize their position whether through ignorance or willful stupidity does not mean God has removed salvation from them so that they are once again dead.
The parable ends with the loss of forgiveness.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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If the prodigal son had not come to his senses, he would have stayed lost and stayed dead.
Figuratively or not.
I hope you are able to think and act perfectly, because that is God’s standard, and you seem to prefer justice to mercy.
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
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The parable ends with the loss of forgiveness.
Yes the parable does but where is forgiveness now and where are the saved? You simply cannot ignore the reality God saves and keeps one saved until the end as per the verse from Phillipians.

Jesus is not a parable but the living reality of those who are saved.
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
2,701
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the Enemy, evil, not the people here replying, the evil of this world
Uses
Doubt, fear, anger, to get to us the people in belief to not see clearly, evil especially goes after those that see they are born again by God and only give God all the credit as Jesus did during his entire earth walk.100% dependent on Father.
You see, all anyone needs is just a modicum of doubt, to not be confident.
As said by God through Isaiah Chapter 7:1-9 They were told what God was going to do, and Were told if they doubt, then they will not be established. Amazing, how deep, high and wide does that go?
I have no doubt God will and does carry on God's done work through all the that believe God. God puts up with us all, even though not one of us is perfect ever of the self, ever. Anyone stop 100% sin in them?? Anyone??
God by son made us as perfect, as if I, you or no one else ever sinned Col 1:21-23
Amazing. And that continues in you, you, you and me too. That is amazing grace that is from God as sufficient from God to us the children to praise and worship God only, at least me.
All others, that you think you can lose salvation is not from God to you, it is you that first born flesh of you in doubt. Thinking, if you do this and or that, then you not in, Really????????????/ You kick you out in doubt, God does not do that, you do it, by not believing God (Phil 1:6)
If that is you, doubting then you do not know this loving God I know in mercy of Son for us to be new in
love and mercy to everyone as he did that on that cross for us all, to be first reconciled as forgiven. to see in thanksgiving and praise all sin first taken away, so we can be born new in God's Spirit and Truth, thank you.
right, once born again, always born again. it's a 1 time deal.
 

Beckworth

Active member
May 15, 2019
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Can a once truly saved believer backslide too much and lose the gift of salvation? If so do they need to repent and ask for forgiveness through Christ again? Thoughts are welcome and scripture too!
Yes, the scriptures teach that a person can lose his salvation. As w
Can a once truly saved believer backslide too much and lose the gift of salvation? If so do they need to repent and ask for forgiveness through Christ again? Thoughts are welcome and scripture too!
yes, definitely, you can lose your salvation. And here are the scriptures that prove it:
EXODUS 32:33-“The Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, I will BLOT HIM OUT OF MY BOOK.”
REVELATION 3:5- Whoever overcomes (sin), “ …I will not blot out his name from the book of life.”
Galations 5:4-“ …you are FALLEN FROM GRACE.”
2 JOHN 1:8-“ Look to yourself, that we do not LOSE those things we worked for.”
1 CORINTHUABS 10:12- “Let him who thinks he stands, take heed lest he FALL”
HEBREWS 6:4-6- For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have BECOME PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, and have tasted the good word of God…IF THEY FALL AWAY to renew them again to repentance…”
HEBREWS 10:35- “therefore do not CAST AWAY your confidence…so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise.
Verse 38- “but IF anyone DRAWS BACK, my soul has no pleasure in him.”
HEBREWS 12:15- “…lest ANYONE FALL SHORT. Of the grace of God…and by this many become defiled.”
HEBREWS 2:1- Therefore we must give the earnest heed to the things we have heard, LEST WE DRIFT AWAY.”
HEBREWS 4:11- “Let us be diligent to enter that rest, lest SOMEONE FALL according to the same example of disobedience.”
Romans 11:22- “…consider the goodness and the severity of God. On those who fell, severity. But toward you goodness IF YOU CONTINUE IN HIS GOODNESS. Otherwise you also WILL BE CUT OFF!”
Read the example of Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8:9-24. He had become a Christian in verse 13. Then he sinned. Peter told him to REPENT and PRAY for forgiveness. The Bible is true and God does not show partiality. If that is what Simon needed to do , then that is what WE need to do when we sin after becoming a Christian. We can trust God’s word.
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
2,701
1,235
113
Yes, the scriptures teach that a person can lose his salvation. As w


yes, definitely, you can lose your salvation. And here are the scriptures that prove it:
EXODUS 32:33-“The Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, I will BLOT HIM OUT OF MY BOOK.”
REVELATION 3:5- Whoever overcomes (sin), “ …I will not blot out his name from the book of life.”
Galations 5:4-“ …you are FALLEN FROM GRACE.”
2 JOHN 1:8-“ Look to yourself, that we do not LOSE those things we worked for.”
1 CORINTHUABS 10:12- “Let him who thinks he stands, take heed lest he FALL”
HEBREWS 6:4-6- For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have BECOME PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, and have tasted the good word of God…IF THEY FALL AWAY to renew them again to repentance…”
HEBREWS 10:35- “therefore do not CAST AWAY your confidence…so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise.
Verse 38- “but IF anyone DRAWS BACK, my soul has no pleasure in him.”
HEBREWS 12:15- “…lest ANYONE FALL SHORT. Of the grace of God…and by this many become defiled.”
HEBREWS 2:1- Therefore we must give the earnest heed to the things we have heard, LEST WE DRIFT AWAY.”
HEBREWS 4:11- “Let us be diligent to enter that rest, lest SOMEONE FALL according to the same example of disobedience.”
Romans 11:22- “…consider the goodness and the severity of God. On those who fell, severity. But toward you goodness IF YOU CONTINUE IN HIS GOODNESS. Otherwise you also WILL BE CUT OFF!”
Read the example of Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8:9-24. He had become a Christian in verse 13. Then he sinned. Peter told him to REPENT and PRAY for forgiveness. The Bible is true and God does not show partiality. If that is what Simon needed to do , then that is what WE need to do when we sin after becoming a Christian. We can trust God’s word.
with respect, i say to you, you are doing a lot of mixing & crossing of verses & meanings. it doesn't make sense that you can never know you"re saved. 1 verse does it alone: 1st John 5:13! once saved always saved is what God teaches. quite simply, if you can lose salvation, when will you get it back? what if someone is close to passing in a hospital bed & you think you are unsaved?
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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Non-existence.

This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. John 6:50


Said the dead.
Okay? I guess my Godless Pagan question is answered. If you think we pass into nonexistence after death, we don't believe the same thing. I believe that book you quoted, and nonexistence is NOT the after death state.