Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

[OIC1965]

Your not thinking straight . If you have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that the scriptures say is the earnest ( Gurantee ) , being put into Christ THIS is the basis for being predestined to the Adoption . No IN THE MIND OF GOD theology needed. My predestination is based in REAL TIME not fictional in the mind of God nonsense . God KNOWING me in REAL TIME ,AS A SON is based in REAL TIME . EVERYTHING !!! I have because of Jesus in REAL TIME is because AFTER I believed ALL SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS IN CHRIST JESUS were given to me . How and why ? Because of some gnostic ' divine ' choosing before i was born, before my parents even knew me ? NO because of something that happened IN TIME . Given to everyone IN HIM , IN REAL TIME !!
You place too much trust in systematic theology and commentaries .

Once again, where does scripture state that predestination comes after conversion

I don’t need extrapolation, assumptions, your opinion, or huge leaps of logic. Clear scriptural demonstration of your claim that predestination is after conversion.

 

[OIC1965]

I used to believe what you believe more or less so i get it. I know the a,b,c s of how the commentaries sell it . But its not there when you see that its coming from faulty presuppositions.

I don’t read commentaries. I read my Bible only.

 

[OIC1965]

Its not about what i believe. Its about what the bible says the Adoption IS . Rom 8 .23 . If we are predestined to the Adoption and to be conformed and to an inheritance , and all those things are yet future . It really is simple to figure out when we are predestined. Now it could be that you only move in reformed circles and have not heard much beyond the reformed systematic. But I'm not alone with this view as others have contended with you on this issue also .

All you have demonstrated is that predestination is before adoption, inheritance, and glorification, which I agree with.

You have provided nothing that says it is after conversion.

You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you.

 

[OIC1965]

I used to believe what you believe more or less so i get it. I know the a,b,c s of how the commentaries sell it . But its not there when you see that its coming from faulty presuppositions.

If predestination was after conversion, the order in Romans 8:29-30 would be called, justified, foreknown, predestined, glorified. Your doctrine seeks to turn Romans 8;29-30 into an illogical mess.

Paul would not say foreknown and predestined before called and justified if that was the wrong order.

And you state it is the wrong order by flipping the terms into a different order, and making them all temporal.

And you deny predestination based on foreknowledge by saying that’s only true of Jewish Christians.

 

[daveywonder]

The devils ' 'believe and tremble''...John the baptist was the first on the scene before Christ was baptized,, and he preached repentance... Common sense and God's spirit tells us after we are saved that we are new creatures....and apostle Paul tells us many-many times to put on the WHOLE armor of God...so one would KNOW you have to at least make an EFFORT to act like a child of God . Call it repentance..call it what you like. the biblical fact is you must be WILLING to change when you accept Christ, otherwise you will believe and tremble as the devils do.

 

[Guojing]

Who was the Apocalypse written to? Not Israel.

The Tribulation is also known as "Jacob's trouble".

 

[AlmondJoy]

Judas Iscariot did not lose his salvation, but was never saved in the first place.

Judas fell by transgression

Judas was given power by Jesus to cast out devils.. and he did

Acts 1 said he had part of the ministry and apostleship but fell by transgression

At the last supper the bible says THEN SATAN ENTERED Judas

 

[AlmondJoy]

I said this in my last post, and I'll say it again here. I pray you are in no position of church authority to teach anyone your twisted theology

Lol....I doubt seriously that you pray........

 

[Budman]

Lol....I doubt seriously that you pray........

Regarding Judas; I proved you wrong. And Mailman Dan's excellent post doubled proof of your error, so all you have is that weak post above to try and ease your wounded pride. Correct exegesis and you are polar opposites.

You're an amateur. We proved that here, and more proof is how you get trashed on every thread you participate in.

 

[AlmondJoy]

Regarding Judas; I proved you wrong. And Mailman Dan's excellent post doubled proof of your error, so all you have is that weak post above to try and ease your wounded pride. Correct exegesis and you are polar opposites.

You're an amateur. We proved that here, and more proof is how you get trashed on every thread you participate in.

LOL....That must be what you tell yourself when you get spanked

all you have proved is your ignorance.....

DID JESUS NOT GIVE JUDAS POWER TO CAST OUT DEVILS??

 

[throughfaith]

LOL....That must be what you tell yourself when you get spanked

all you have proved is your ignorance.....

DID JESUS NOT GIVE JUDAS POWER TO CAST OUT DEVILS??

Balaam was given the Holy Spirit upon him and he prophesied about Israel . Was he saved ?

 

[throughfaith]

All you have demonstrated is that predestination is before adoption, inheritance, and glorification, which I agree with.

You have provided nothing that says it is after conversion.

You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you.

No its your claim that you were predestined to be converted. If you agree that we are predestinated to the Adoption ect ,which is yet future, then which verses do you have that say ' predestined to be converted please ? ( with the actual term ' Predestined ' ' predestinated ' ' predestination ' ? Not ' chosen ' not ' elected ' as this is different .

 

[throughfaith]

If predestination was after conversion, the order in Romans 8:29-30 would be called, justified, foreknown, predestined, glorified. Your doctrine seeks to turn Romans 8;29-30 into an illogical mess.

Paul would not say foreknown and predestined before called and justified if that was the wrong order.

And you state it is the wrong order by flipping the terms into a different order, and making them all temporal.

And you deny predestination based on foreknowledge by saying that’s only true of Jewish Christians.

Foreknowledge has nothing to do with what Arminans and calvinists teach . its about ' in real time ' knowing. The bible just uses the word . Its you that has swallowed the doctrine on the term .

 

[throughfaith]

If predestination was after conversion, the order in Romans 8:29-30 would be called, justified, foreknown, predestined, glorified. Your doctrine seeks to turn Romans 8;29-30 into an illogical mess.

Paul would not say foreknown and predestined before called and justified if that was the wrong order.

And you state it is the wrong order by flipping the terms into a different order, and making them all temporal.

And you deny predestination based on foreknowledge by saying that’s only true of Jewish Christians.

Next time you read Rom 8 .29 ask your self when were they foreknown . Does it say " before the foundation " ? Does it say " in my mother's womb" ?

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Israel are God's ' chosen ' in the sense of being His first born son . Thats how God ' knows ' them and how they are foreknown. It has nothing to do with gnosctism or determinism or ' in the mind of God 'theories and philosophy.

 

[tribesman]

I remember when Pastor Phelps said in a sermon:

You're predestined to go to hell boy. Have a nice day.

 

[throughfaith]

If predestination was after conversion, the order in Romans 8:29-30 would be called, justified, foreknown, predestined, glorified. Your doctrine seeks to turn Romans 8;29-30 into an illogical mess.

Paul would not say foreknown and predestined before called and justified if that was the wrong order.

And you state it is the wrong order by flipping the terms into a different order, and making them all temporal.

And you deny predestination based on foreknowledge by saying that’s only true of Jewish Christians.

28¶As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Enemies . Israel. Not saved . But the Elect .
To answer a previous point on ' election ' being for purpose ect and not to salvation.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Israel are God's ' chosen ' in the sense of being His first born son . Thats how God ' knows ' them and how they are foreknown.

Agreed... this is what Romans 11:2 is saying... they were "known" ['which He foreknew'; Strong's - "know (before)"] before the time Romans was being written (i.e. way back in the OT times when God "chose" them and worked through them, in this earth/world )... the understood QUESTION (Rom9-11) basically being, "what of the promises made to Israel? [where are they??]"

That is how I understand it. = )



Then there's the word "fore-hoped" in Ephesians 1:12, "G4276 - proelpizo / proēlpikotas " (pretty much speaking of the same OT time-frame... that is, before Christ came)

 

[AlmondJoy]

Balaam was given the Holy Spirit upon him and he prophesied about Israel . Was he saved ?

As saved as any old testament saint could be....yes..... Balaam was a prophet of God that had a real relationship with God

Just like Judas he got his eyes on the gold of Moab...he wanted God and he wanted the Gold the wicked king offered

He gave us beautiful sayings in the bible when he looked over Isreal and said "how beautiful are thy tabernacles oh Jacob......let me die the death of the righteous"

BUT LIKE JUDAS HE DIED LIKE A FOOL TRYING TO REACH FOR BOTH WORLDS.....GOLD OF MOAB OR GOD OF ISREAL......

short answer......YES

WILL YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION: DID JESUS NOT GIVE JUDAS POWER TO CAST OUT DEVILS?

 

[OIC1965]

The Tribulation is also known as "Jacob's trouble".

So the letters to the seven churches in Asia Minor? That’s part of Israel? No.

 

[OIC1965]

No its your claim that you were predestined to be converted. If you agree that we are predestinated to the Adoption ect ,which is yet future, then which verses do you have that say ' predestined to be converted please ? ( with the actual term ' Predestined ' ' predestinated ' ' predestination ' ? Not ' chosen ' not ' elected ' as this is different .

No its your claim that you were predestined to be converted. If you agree that we are predestinated to the Adoption ect ,which is yet future, then which verses do you have that say ' predestined to be converted please ? ( with the actual term ' Predestined ' ' predestinated ' ' predestination ' ? Not ' chosen ' not ' elected ' as this is different .

I never used those words...

So please provide scripture that shows predestination after conversion.