Looking forward to the cross?

[John146]

Many claimed that the OT saints were saved by "looking forward to the cross." If you have a few minutes, take a listen. One of the best explanations I've heard on why no OT saint looked forward to the cross, including Jesus' disciples.

Were Men Before Calvary Saved by Looking Forward to the Cross? | Old Testament Salvation - Lesson 1

 

[homwardbound]

Many claimed that the OT saints were saved by "looking forward to the cross." If you have a few minutes, take a listen. One of the best explanations I've heard on why no OT saint looked forward to the cross, including Jesus' disciples.

Were Men Before Calvary Saved by Looking Forward to the Cross? | Old Testament Salvation - Lesson 1

They, knew not the mystery of the cross, (Hebrews 11) they, knew a Messiah was coming, when, how, they knew not. They believed and worked hard to be ready. Even the Disciples did not understand until after the resurrection and Pentecost, and still had troubles, even as we all have troubles too, when Father came to live in them and us today, for us all that do not quit belief, no matter how many mistakes one, anyone makes to the done work of Son for them, God continues, God's done work in each person, we are all reconciled (2 Cor 5:17-20), to see new in continued trust, thank you Father, It is the risen life of Son that saves, the death was to reconcile us all first. God Father's Spirit and Truth. Assured by God, God has got it smothered and covered for us to be new in love and mercy to all, not a few anymore, All, at least to me, thank you
There is no stress in real love as in 1 Cor 13:4-7 given us to stand in, at least me
I am going to the sight you placed here and thank you

 

[homwardbound]

Many claimed that the OT saints were saved by "looking forward to the cross." If you have a few minutes, take a listen. One of the best explanations I've heard on why no OT saint looked forward to the cross, including Jesus' disciples.

Were Men Before Calvary Saved by Looking Forward to the Cross? | Old Testament Salvation - Lesson 1

Thank you, I listened, exceptionally true, thank you
they did not fathom it, until saw him risen and Jesus hung out with them for forty days, then Father, The Holy Spirit came at Pentecost and spoke through the disciples to the crowd at hand then. They were simply Father's vessels. Father I see I want to be a willing vessel for your lead through me in love and mercy to all, thank you
I am willing Father, your will through me, not my will, thank you. Daily learning g this new me, given me, that I see and take no credit in doing it anymore as I did in religion first
Freed Col 2

 

[notmywillbuthine]

I watched the video. In no way did he prove his claim. All that he proved through his cherry-picked verses is that Jesus' disciples weren't looking forward to the cross. By no means does that prove that no Old Testament saints looked forward to it. He also applied his own faulty interpretation to what Peter wrote in 1 Peter 1:10-12. Old Testament prophets had Jesus' sufferings and the glory that should follow revealed unto them. Nowhere does that portion of scripture say that they didn't believe in it or look forward to it. In fact, they definitely were looking forward to it to the point that they were searching to understand what manner of time the Spirit of Christ that was in them was testifying of in relation to it. I would love to debate that man. His cocky, deceitful, and vainglorious smirk would be gone from his face by the time we were through.

 

[Cameron143]

Abraham rejoiced to see Jesus day, and saw it. Exactly what he saw is not made clear. What is clear is that what he saw led to rejoicing.

 

[sawdust]

Many claimed that the OT saints were saved by "looking forward to the cross." If you have a few minutes, take a listen. One of the best explanations I've heard on why no OT saint looked forward to the cross, including Jesus' disciples.

Were Men Before Calvary Saved by Looking Forward to the Cross? | Old Testament Salvation - Lesson 1

I never heard anyone say that. I've heard people say the Cross looks back as well as forward, so don't know who these "many" are.

 

[John146]

I watched the video. In no way did he prove his claim. All that he proved through his cherry-picked verses is that Jesus' disciples weren't looking forward to the cross. By no means does that prove that no Old Testament saints looked forward to it. He also applied his own faulty interpretation to what Peter wrote in 1 Peter 1:10-12. Old Testament prophets had Jesus' sufferings and the glory that should follow revealed unto them. Nowhere does that portion of scripture say that they didn't believe in it or look forward to it. In fact, they definitely were looking forward to it to the point that they were searching to understand what manner of time the Spirit of Christ that was in them was testifying of in relation to it. I would love to debate that man. His cocky, deceitful, and vainglorious smirk would be gone from his face by the time we were through.

Satan would have never initiated the cross if he'd known the outcome. If any man before the cross understood that the Messiah would die on a cross for sins and resurrect the third day, Satan would have known it and would have not allowed it.

1 Corinthians 2:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Can you show were OT saints trusted in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus for sins? Thanks.

 

[Mem]

The OT saints were well acquainted with God's mercy. They were given many clues to it even if it remained a mystery to them. There's no longer any mystery to what is revealed in Christ.

 

[notmywillbuthine]

Satan would have never initiated the cross if he'd known the outcome. If any man before the cross understood that the Messiah would die on a cross for sins and resurrect the third day, Satan would have known it and would have not allowed it.

Satan would not have allowed it? In case you haven't heard, God is in control, not Satan.

Can you show were OT saints trusted in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus for sins? Thanks.

Abel was justified by faith after offering the firstlings of his flock as a sacrifice. What was he putting his faith in if not the coming sacrifice of Jesus that his offering foreshadowed? Jesus said that Abraham rejoiced to see his day, and he saw it, and was glad. Abraham understood that his promised "seed" was the Messiah, and he had righteousness imputed unto him through faith in him. David called Jesus his Lord in Psalm 110:1 while prophesying of his resurrection from the dead. The list goes on and on.

I have a question for you. If the Old Testament saints didn't trust in the coming death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, then how were they saved? Is there any other means of salvation or of being found righteous in God's eyes? The guy in the video doesn't know what he is talking about, so he should wipe that smug look off of his face. The moment I saw his facial expression, I knew that he was going to present error.

BTW, did the thief on the cross believe in Jesus' resurrection? If not, then why did he tell Jesus to remember him when he came into his kingdom? Who says that to a dying man unless they believe that he is going to rise from the dead?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Abraham rejoiced to see Jesus day, and saw it. Exactly what he saw is not made clear. What is clear is that what he saw led to rejoicing.

He was told that he would be father of many nations and that through his seed ( Christ ) all people would be blessed .

 

[Cameron143]

He was told that he would be father of many nations and that through his seed ( Christ ) all people would be blessed .

Sure, but he didn't see that happen. Something else must be in view.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

1 Corinthians 2:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Can you show were OT saints trusted in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus for sins? Thanks.

Hebrews 11:

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.


... and when we read the record in Gen 22 ...

Genesis 22:

4 Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.

Isaac is the seed through whom Abraham believed God would bless all the nations of the world ... the seed through whom Abraham would become "the father of many nations" (Gen 17:4-5). Interesting that for 3 days, Abraham had in mind that Isaac would be sacrificed and God was able to raise up Isaac from the dead. That is the figure spoken of in Hebrews 11:19.


Isaac willingly obeyed Abraham:

Genesis 22:

7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?

8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.


And then:

Genesis 22:

13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.

Jehovajireh = the Lord will provide.

wow wow wow.
.

 

[posthuman]

do we really have to know every detail of what we shall be, in order to look forward to it in hope?

1 John 3:2-3​

Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.​

 

[Gideon300]

Many claimed that the OT saints were saved by "looking forward to the cross." If you have a few minutes, take a listen. One of the best explanations I've heard on why no OT saint looked forward to the cross, including Jesus' disciples.

Were Men Before Calvary Saved by Looking Forward to the Cross? | Old Testament Salvation - Lesson 1

Yes and no. They did not know precisely what was to come. God spoke to the OT saints in types and figures. Even in the beginning, God told Satan that it would be a descendant of Eve that would crush his (Satan's) head. Abraham believed God for the resurrection of his son as he knew God's promise concerning the future.

Luke 24: 25-27

Then Jesus said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and then to enter His glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself.

David certainly looked forward to the cross, even if not by name. Jesus quoted psalm 22 from the cross. Did David have no idea of what he was writing? How about Psalm 16:10, "For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol, nor will You let Your Holy One see decay."

Isaiah 53, Isaiah 8 and many other passages point to the coming Saviour. Job said, "But I know that my Redeemer lives, and in the end He will stand upon the earth."

If people want to nit pick, then sure, the cross does not get a mention. But the OT saints looked forward to the salvation of God perhaps thousands of years before Jesus came on the earth. They were saved by faith just as we are today.

 

[homwardbound]

I watched the video. In no way did he prove his claim. All that he proved through his cherry-picked verses is that Jesus' disciples weren't looking forward to the cross. By no means does that prove that no Old Testament saints looked forward to it. He also applied his own faulty interpretation to what Peter wrote in 1 Peter 1:10-12. Old Testament prophets had Jesus' sufferings and the glory that should follow revealed unto them. Nowhere does that portion of scripture say that they didn't believe in it or look forward to it. In fact, they definitely were looking forward to it to the point that they were searching to understand what manner of time the Spirit of Christ that was in them was testifying of in relation to it. I would love to debate that man. His cocky, deceitful, and vainglorious smirk would be gone from his face by the time we were through.

For me, the point I got is:
They believed God in a Messiah coming, How, when, nothing known of the cross then, not literally, I think first prophecy is Genesis 3:15-16 about Jesus that was not named then. However I see God saw it from the beginning it happening to reconcile us all first through him as forgiven to give new life in his son's risen Life, to live in and through us in love and mercy to all also.

So, sorry you take offense, as if that preacher in the video was being arrogant, I guess I can see your view in his smirking.
I do not think he was doing that as offensive, yet can be seen as so, as you are seeing it as so.
I think the point was/is they did not know how it would play out, certainly not understanding what, going to a cross willingly would become. That assuredly appeared as defeat to the disciples, when that day came to be and watched him willingly die on that cross.
I see Evil was rejoicing when got him crucified, those Pharisees that got him killed, until they saw him risen after risen from the grave. Col 2
And he did not condemn them. They saw and condemned themselves, no need for God to condemn anyone anymore, Jesus the Son satisfied God's wrath. People, condemn themselves and others. "God loves us all y'all"
start right there, see the point to have the art of fighting without fighting given you as Jesus did, going to that cross and not fighting back.
Love all is the hard part to love those that have done you or others wrong.
Be wise as a serpent, remain harmless as a dove.
Wow, Lord, I see the evil here on earth all around me, in me (My first born flesh, I now reckon daily as dead and stand in belief to this truth from you and wanting you Daddy, PaPa, Father to work through me any way possible, as I know you do no evil, so I trust you. All things are possible with you as said by Jesus in Mathew 19 to the disciples then. "With man it is impossible, with my Father, all things are possible" Quoted before the cross of Son. Reconciled in the death (2 Cor 5:17-20), saved in the risen live from Daddy's, PaPa's, Father's approval (Hebrews 9:14-17) to each person in belief between God and them, get to see. if not see it yet, will, therefore continue even if in adversities still, thank you

 

[notmywillbuthine]

If people want to nit pick, then sure, the cross does not get a mention.

It does, at least in type, if we know where to look. In Galatians 3:13, Paul said that Christ was made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree, and that was written by Moses back in Deuteronomy 21:23. We know that the tree upon which Christ hung was the cross Acts 5:30, Acts 10:39, Acts 13:29, 1 Peter 2:24. As you said, Jesus quoted from Psalm 22:1 while he was hanging on the cross. In that psalm, we see descriptive language that speaks of death by crucifixion, like Jesus' bones being out of joint, and his hands and feet being pierced. In John 3:14, Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be lifted up as Moses lifted up the serpent on the pole in the wilderness in Numbers 21:8, and his lifting up referred to his crucifixion on the cross. These are just some examples where Christ's crucifixion was foreshadowed in the Old Testament.

 

[notmywillbuthine]

They believed God in a Messiah coming, How, when, nothing known of the cross then, not literally,

I totally disagree. Take David as an example. David was a prophet Acts 2:30 who had the Spirit of Christ in him 1 Peter 1:11, and he foretold of Christ's crucifixion in Psalm 22. In Acts 2:29-31, Peter said that David knew that God had sworn with an oath to him that his seed, who is Jesus, would sit upon his throne, and he foresaw Christ's resurrection from the dead, and wrote about it in Psalm 16:8-11. David also called Jesus "Lord" while foretelling of his ascension back to the Father's right hand in Psalm 110:1. He also foretold of Christ's glorification in Psalm 8:4-6 as is proven in Hebrews 2:5-9. With these things in mind, do you really expect me to believe that David knew nothing of Christ's crucifixion, burial, resurrection, ascension, and glorification? I'm not buying it. The guy in the video spoke foolishly, and judging by the smirk on his face and several things that he said, he did so out of pride.

 

[lrs68]

Abraham, being the great great great Grandson of Noah and the great great great great great great Grandson of Enoch saw the Garden and humanity being restored through the coming Yeshua.

 

[DeanM]

Satan would have never initiated the cross if he'd known the outcome. If any man before the cross understood that the Messiah would die on a cross for sins and resurrect the third day, Satan would have known it and would have not allowed it.

1 Corinthians 2:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Can you show were OT saints trusted in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus for sins? Thanks.

God has restraints. Satan can only do what God allows.

 

[homwardbound]

I totally disagree. Take David as an example. David was a prophet Acts 2:30 who had the Spirit of Christ in him 1 Peter 1:11, and he foretold of Christ's crucifixion in Psalm 22. In Acts 2:29-31, Peter said that David knew that God had sworn with an oath to him that his seed, who is Jesus, would sit upon his throne, and he foresaw Christ's resurrection from the dead, and wrote about it in Psalm 16:8-11. David also called Jesus "Lord" while foretelling of his ascension back to the Father's right hand in Psalm 110:1. He also foretold of Christ's glorification in Psalm 8:4-6 as is proven in Hebrews 2:5-9. With these things in mind, do you really expect me to believe that David knew nothing of Christ's crucifixion, burial, resurrection, ascension, and glorification? I'm not buying it. The guy in the video spoke foolishly, and judging by the smirk on his face and several things that he said, he did so out of pride.

David knew as many others did too, as Father God revealed to each, as needed to know, to predict to fit when Son came here to earth to first reconcile us all as forgiven in his one time willing death alone, then new life in his resurrected life given to us by Father, Daddy, Papa. Yet, Daddy., PaPa, Father the Holy Spirit of Truth, did not live in and through anyone yet before the cross, where we have a before and after the cross, that is to men misunderstood much, mixing Law and grace as one, anyone sees fit to be right and others wrong, which is not good for my soul.
They, of the Old Testament, looked forward to the Messiah coming, not understanding yet how it will be done for them, yet stood in belief to this day will happen, however it takes place Hebrews 11, just not seen how yet.
Those today in belief to it is done. for them reconciled, forgiven and are given the new life in risen Son from Father, Daddy, PaPa see new and love all in God Father's mercy and truth of Son for us all, thank you 1 John 4:18-19