Lonely... can anyone help?

[Lanolin]

oh well mm ok
I havent been to Norway so I wont possibly be of much use to your dilemma. (in terms of any kind of advice) But sure you can pm me and will stay private. Maybe you just need to write it out or express it to someone and I will say Ive read it. I dont often read the PMs but I will in your case.

Used to have a cat called Fluffy who we found out was a Norweijan forest cat. She wasnt born in Norway but her fur was so thick that it seemed she would fit right in there if the family ever migrated and took our cat along. That is the only connection i have with Norway.

Oh actually no, now, my cousin did marry a guy whos family did came from Norway. Otherwise, I dont know that much about the country. salmon? northern lights? trolls? reindeer....

 

[Lenoralana]

Well... for all I know, you MIGHT be able to offer some advice or insights because... in some ways, this actually has very little to do with Norway or knowing anything about the country itself, because I don't even know much about the country. It's........ sort of a different matter.

I'll PM you in a little bit.... and maybe it'll make sense.

 

[Lenoralana]

Scratch that............ apparently I can't send any PMs without a paid subscription, and I can't afford that. ^^; I also don't want to risk looking like a troll by asking something like, "What's your email address?" cuz that sort of thing shouldn't be shared in public and I'd rather not share mine... unless you wouldn't mind me sharing my email account that mostly gets spam and after you contact me there, I could give you my primary one lol.

Either that or maybe I could spend some time a little later drafting an overview of what happened and what my reasons are for being so enraptured with Norway... written in a format that I may not mind sharing in a public space.

The biggest reasons why I hesitate to do so is because.... it is embarrassing, and I am also afraid that I may come across as sounding like the world's greatest madwoman if I do share the story. ^^;

 

[Subhumanoidal]

So you're bitter towards friends growing and moving on, despite it sounding as though you've done the same thing to them as well? Does that mean they would he justified in being bitter towards you? Or is it more accurate that no one has any right to be bitter because that's simply how life works?

It seems to me the issue is you have not learned to adapt to the natural changes that occur in life. Rather than rolling with things you stayed stuck and as more and more changes piled up you continued to stay in place.
And now you're finally facing those changes, but all at once instead of as they arose. And that's a lot of life changes at one time.
As a result you've become complacent and depressed.

The good news is learning to accept these changes and taking charge of your life can eliminate most of these feelings. And as thar happens it will help you to learn to enjoy things you once did, again. Or even discover new things.

Soul mates don't exist so drop that notion. Nor will finding a romantic partner change anything. More likely you will drag them down with you.

Relationships are all about learning to compromise. Everyone has to do things in relationships/marriage they don't want to do.
I, too, am a person that values their personal time. As does my gf. Yet due to my strong feelings for her it's pretty rare that I'm bothered by being around her over that.
I'm usually too busy enjoying my time with her to want to be alone. And if, for some reason, I need to be alone she understands and has no problem giving me space. And the same goes for when she needs it.
You can make that work long as you find someone that understands and accepts that side of you. And long as you can still give them whatever attention and time they need.
But if that notion is too strong for you it may be best to hold off on relationships until you can sort things out better.

 

[Lenoralana]

I...guess that does sum it up pretty well. I mean, particularly the part where you said that I didn't face changes as they arose, so I had to face all of them at once while I stagnated. It has also really overwhelmed me at times.

I think a huge part of my problem, too, is that I... also privately hoped beyond hope that things would just return to being the way they used to be. Maybe I deluded myself into thinking that whatever changes were happening around me, even when friends were growing in different directions... I desperately wanted to believe they were "just going through a phase" and they'd return to "normal" eventually. Ultimately, I got slapped in the face with the notion that the changes were permanent and nothing was going back... and that a lot of changes had occurred I wasn't even aware of.

It is also because I grew up in environment where basically... you had the Captain of the Ship and everybody was supposed to stay in line, according to a certain routine, and do things a certain way. Especially since I think OCD has always run heavily in my household, and my parents also felt it necessary to stick to a very rigid routine because, mostly when we were kids, well... if someone said that something was gonna happen at 6PM, and plans changed unexpectedly or if it had to happen at ten after six for any reason... it would lead to an absolute, blood-curdling screaming meltdown tantrum from my brother and his routine-oriented flow due to his mental disorder... which couldn't really be helped, even if he got better over time as we got older. (He's not really that bad these days...)

And... that might have also been another reason we didn't go out in public that much if we could help it. My brother definitely had his own issues... including an extreme sensitivity to loud noises. I still remember several occasions when we were children where we ended up leaving places we went early, not because any of us did anything wrong, but because the loud noises were clearly causing my brother agony.

But back to the original point.... somehow, I guess I just come from an environment where there is just comfort and security in having everything stay the same, and having everything carefully planned out ahead of time. And of being firmly told in advance what was gonna happen and when we were gonna do this or that or when we were gonna go to this place or that place.

Of course, not everything in life has always been THAT rigid or planned out, because I learned to flow with it as a kid if we suddenly got a flat tire that delayed us, or if someone simply wanted to do something nice on a whim (Let's go out and get ice cream because it's hot today!) but....

I have been told several times, by several different people, that I shouldn't treat people like calendars, I should treat them like people. I guess in some ways... communication is still something I'm trying to learn, because even my parents didn't communicate well at all for the first three decades of their marriage, and for some reason they could never touch upon sensitive issues without exploding at each other. They are better NOW, they can actually talk things out like calm civilized beings and use Inside Voices, but... I dunno.

I... have also been told that I am not good at compromising... and for a long time, my dad was horrid at compromising. If anyone confronted him on any issue, his response for a long time was to get mad and leave the room, or sometimes, find a way to sorta punish you by doing something behind your back, taking away a privilage, or just acting passive aggressive. (Again... I attribute part of that to a very bad upbringing, his family was abusive and they were a bunch of selfish manipulators.) And he'd often decide that what he wanted to do was it, and if he really wanted to do it, and you had a problem with it, he would just make moves to do it while you weren't around.

I still remember that was one of the "lessons" he taught me when I was a kid. "If you want to do something, and anyone else has a problem with it, you can still do it. Just make sure you don't do it while that person is around."

I also remember when he and Mom finally started to come to blows about their issues, I overheard some of their arguments, and one time, when Mom got after him for doing something she really didn't want him to do (getting too friendly with other women online...) his response was, "....I thought you were getting over this...?"

A friend told me, when I told him about that, was "An uncompromising person doesn't want to consider the idea that he may have to change."

In the end.... I'm not sure how I feel about compromise. There are some areas where I struggle with it. But... I'd also like to think I am at least fairly bendable. I have co-authored stories with people sometimes, and especially if the person is someone easy to get along with, I sometimes didn't mind making changes to my original idea... as long as it still flowed with what I wanted to do for however long I wanted to do it. I think the greatest areas where I've had clashes is when someone else still wanted me to do something when I was ready to be done with it, or they wanted me to put high-quality work into something when I just wanted to have fun.

I suppose sometimes in life.. there are also just times when you just go according to your own flow and subconsciously expect everything else around you to be sprung from the same root... even if they admit themselves they come from a different culture or upbringing. It just sometimes seems like... it is too easy sometimes for people to think they know all about each other just because of a few similarities or a few superficial, mutual interests.... then it turns out you're not alike at all, or you keep having clash after clash because you have the opposite (or very different) ideas of how something should be done.

 

[Lanolin]

aw ok
No Im not sharing my email address on here.
I didnt know it was now a paid thing.

change is just hard for some people. some of the most stressful life events is moving house which is rated right up there. Or someone close to you moving away. This is why divorce does affect kids so much. because not only are their parents fighting and such but they have to MOVE house, maybe even change schools and split up their lives. And have no choice about it.

 

[Lenoralana]

I have been mulling over everything that has been said, along with just some of my own thoughts, and discussing some things in private with friends, and....

Maybe... there are some areas where I've had a bit of an epiphany. ^^;

I think... in a lot of ways, if you are a person (which I am) who is very routine-oriented and very much a loner, who is also living with other people who are fairly routine-oriented and pretty much loners (which my family unit is....), well...

See... for a while, I was feeling kinda bad about everything, because one former friend once told me that I seem like a person who just wants to predict and control everything, including other people, and even accused me of being a narcissist in some ways.

I did take that to heart though, I even took it seriously enough to investigate it and read up on narcissistic personality disorder and see if it could have some merit... because I have been very interested for years now in knowing what might ail me and if I can improve, if I can identity what my problems are... and if this might have any bearing on my spiritual health and whether or not I might go to hell if I don't improve.

In the end, though... it could also just be that some people are just natural loners, and for that reason... they simply don't develop an emotional intelligence like other people do, and they may simply have different ways of doing things... and it can even take them more time to develop any kind of communication method... or maybe part of the communication literally is dancing around issues for a long time and/or being a dunce about issues until somehow, one way or another, something finally gets addressed and resolved.

It... could even mean a gradual yet painful shift in gears from a near-totalitarian "this person is basically the boss" flow into a more democratic household dynamic as the kids-living-at-home get older and have more say, and the spouse gets fed up with things and demands more of an equal say (rightfully so).

I think in some ways... being alone and mostly isolated from society can be okay, especially if one of the reasons you're alone is because you want to live a different kind of lifestyle that your extended family and even some friends don't understand or would prefer you change... even if you don't want to change. But... being alone too much can also cause other problems.

One thing I was thinking about earlier today was how, one time about three years ago, Dad dropped me off at the theater to see a movie and of course he had given me some money. Now, he didn't discuss this with anyone, but apparently he was planning to have me use whatever was left of the money as a partial fund toward surprising everyone with dinner at a restaurant after I was done seeing the movie.

The key thing is.... when I was younger, I never went anywhere outside of the designated area I was supposed to be in or perhaps told to be in, partially because my parents didn't want me wandering off for my own safety and because I had out-of-control anxiety back then that made me scared to approach other people or go off alone. So based on those predictable factors and years and years of habit, I guess you could logically make the assumption that I would simply see the movie, and then come right out to the car with most of the money still intact.

But.... before the movie started, I had taken a few minutes to zip across the parking lot to the mall entrance where I ended up buying a plush. Then I went back in to see the movie. After the movie, when Dad came by to pick me up, he..... seemed a bit displeased that I had spent the money, but he also didn't really say anything and he simply rolled with the slight, unexpected money loss and proceeded with his plans anyway.

Of course.... this is where communication needs to come in. Since absolutely nothing was discussed on either side, and apparently neither one of us thought anything needed to be discussed.... I had assumed that any money I was given was mine to use as I saw fit, especially since it wasn't much anyway and nothing had been said to indicate otherwise. I can also understand why he wouldn't say anything if he wanted it to be a surprise, but...

I guess this is where it gets tricky, if you have a mindset where you're used to previous predictable factors, and you're simply used to set-in-stone plans once a plan is made... or certain assumptions are made how a particular outcome "should" ideally go.

In a lot of ways... I think this is an area where I have had the most trouble, especially where other people are involved. Maybe in some ways... things did seem to work more smoothly when there was sorta "one boss" (my dad) in most of the important areas, buuuut.... one person can only railroad everything forever, and when it reaches a point where that one person finally oversteps his bounds a bit too much and everyone else is sick of the old way of doing things and require more flexibility rather than the same old routine and railroad guidelines....

Well, it finally reaches a point where the control-freak side is gone, but then.... it does require more communication. And lack of communication can create disorganization, dysfunction, disappointment.... although having a person in charge who is too much of a control freak can lead to dysfunction, too... even rebellion, which ended up happening too.


Sooooo... as it has been pointed out here in this very thread.... yeah, compromise is the key to any kind of human interaction. Just... maybe there are some areas where, since I lived in a........ somewhat totalitarian railroad for so long (if you get what I mean).... maybe there is an unfortunate part of my nature where I am a bit of a controlling snob where... in my thought processes at least, I think of people as machines or... if I don't like something about them, the only thing I can think about is how much I'd like to readjust a setting.

I think... maybe I am getting somewhat better about it though. I mean... five years ago, I hated a lot of things about my mother and I kept trying to change her or delude myself into thinking I could change her. These days, I still get annoyed by her, but I also catch myself better and sternly tell myself, "Hey, if you don't like it when other people tell you not to like something or not to think a certain way, then don't treat your mother like that." Just... things like that.

It.... could be that I am just an extreme loner and introvert and I am also not the easiest person to get along with. I am also incredibly self-absorbed in some areas. If it were up to me, I'd love to just sit on my bum all day and demand attention from anyone who would give it to me. But... I fulfill my responsibilities around the apartment because I have had at least some sense of responsibility instilled into me, and there is nobody else here to do it most of the time.

I think it would require a very specific kind of person to put up with me, and vice versa.

 

[cinder]

One thing I was thinking about earlier today was how, one time about three years ago, Dad dropped me off at the theater to see a movie and of course he had given me some money. Now, he didn't discuss this with anyone, but apparently he was planning to have me use whatever was left of the money as a partial fund toward surprising everyone with dinner at a restaurant after I was done seeing the movie.

The key thing is.... when I was younger, I never went anywhere outside of the designated area I was supposed to be in or perhaps told to be in, partially because my parents didn't want me wandering off for my own safety and because I had out-of-control anxiety back then that made me scared to approach other people or go off alone. So based on those predictable factors and years and years of habit, I guess you could logically make the assumption that I would simply see the movie, and then come right out to the car with most of the money still intact.

But.... before the movie started, I had taken a few minutes to zip across the parking lot to the mall entrance where I ended up buying a plush. Then I went back in to see the movie. After the movie, when Dad came by to pick me up, he..... seemed a bit displeased that I had spent the money, but he also didn't really say anything and he simply rolled with the slight, unexpected money loss and proceeded with his plans anyway.

I read this story and wonder why you thought it was okay to spend money you were given for the movie on something else. Either the money was given to you to spend as you saw fit and was yours and there was no problem. Or it was given to you for a specific purpose and it would be somewhere between dishonest and theft to spend it for any other purpose. But maybe that's one of those things that should be universal but just happens in my family.

Also wondering did you and your Dad talk about it afterwards or are you just assuming what your Dad intended for the money?

 

[Lenoralana]

This is... an area where my family has never really been clear on some things, I guess. I think we have gotten... somewhat better at communicating, but....

For whatever reason.... it's almost like we've always been a bit... funny when it comes to money, or even other things. Maybe we never really ironed out what the protocol is supposed to be, or maybe I was never really properly taught what you are supposed to do in terms of etiquette and morals when you are given money for something. Or even if maybe I was somewhat, it has... never exactly been practiced.

Plus there were several times when I was a kid, I was given money as an allowance or for some chores I did, and even when I tried to save it, Dad would sometimes take it back to pay for something.... even though it was mine.

I dunno. Now that you have mentioned it, maybe I shouldn't have spent the money on anything other than the movie, and perhaps the protocol should have been to simply give the change back after the movie. Buuuut.... for whatever reason, in my family at least, it seems like there has always been a very blurry line between "This is your money to do whatever you want with" and "That was never really yours to begin with".

 

[cinder]

This is... an area where my family has never really been clear on some things, I guess. I think we have gotten... somewhat better at communicating, but....

For whatever reason.... it's almost like we've always been a bit... funny when it comes to money, or even other things. Maybe we never really ironed out what the protocol is supposed to be, or maybe I was never really properly taught what you are supposed to do in terms of etiquette and morals when you are given money for something. Or even if maybe I was somewhat, it has... never exactly been practiced.

Plus there were several times when I was a kid, I was given money as an allowance or for some chores I did, and even when I tried to save it, Dad would sometimes take it back to pay for something.... even though it was mine.

I dunno. Now that you have mentioned it, maybe I shouldn't have spent the money on anything other than the movie, and perhaps the protocol should have been to simply give the change back after the movie. Buuuut.... for whatever reason, in my family at least, it seems like there has always been a very blurry line between "This is your money to do whatever you want with" and "That was never really yours to begin with".

Yeah, I often forget I was fortunate to grow up in a pretty healthy family with parents who were good at managing money. So much of our perception of normal comes from the tone our parents set and the way they do things.

 

[Lenoralana]

Plus another unhealthy part of our dynamic, particularly in the past, was always.... I dunno, kinda like... if you really wanted to get your way, and prevent someone else from getting their way (or maybe getting IN the way)... or maybe you just felt like you needed to hurry up and do something before some aspect of reality could get in the way or change things....

Well... this leads to very impulsive behavior. Take whatever's in grabbing distance while it's there before someone else takes it. Or sometimes, get something done before someone else arrives.

I think part of my dad's bad learned behavior was the fact that his dad ran out on him when he was a kid, and the rest of his family pretty much treated him like an errand boy. That and they would often take and use his stuff without asking. One of his sisters stole some silver coins he had to buy drugs when they were teenagers. When he went to college, his mother gave away a lot of his belongings without even consulting him.

I can... understand how this would shape a person, and maybe even made my dad feel like he had to be overly possessive of some things and maybe why he felt it was okay to take things from other people. Sometimes, I think... unfortunately, he did things to his own kids as a twisted form of payback to his own parents and siblings for what they did to him.

But I have also seen where some of this has lead to... some bad behaviors in me. Like... there was a period of time when I almost had sort of a... duel of wills with my dad. In the past, he often acted like at least some of my possessions were actually his. If I wanted to give something away (Even if no one else wanted it or had any use for it) he would insist that we keep it because maybe we could use it eventually... even if Mom made it clear she didn't want it, and the only outcome would be that I'd be forced to find place in my already limited space when I didn't want it in my space in the first place.

In the end, I ended up donating a lot of my stuff when he wasn't around or slipped it out when he wasn't paying attention... which I shouldn't have had to do, considering it was MY stuff to do with as I pleased to begin with.

In some cases, I actually think it's pretty pitiful when you feel like you have to do something simple like that in secret with the same care you'd use if you wanted to sneak off to rob a bank or something. But for various reasons... apparently, that's how my dad had to do things when he was a kid, and it was the only way he got to do some things he wanted to do, and I guess he passed at least some of that onto me.

These days, we DO have a better understanding, because during a calm moment a few weeks ago, I flat-out told him all of my reasons and feelings for wanting to donate some things and why I didn't want it in my space. He was very understanding, and he said it was okay. So... at least we have that ironed out between us now, but... it took a while.

 

[Lanolin]

your dad sounds like he has some issues with what is called boundaries, and unable to clearly communicate with you what he wants or expects.

If it was my dad and he'd given me money for movies (never has, but Im trying to think what he would do if he did do something like that! ) he would ask how much the ticket was and give me enough to cover it, and I suppose any extra would be just change. He might tell me to keep it if I showed him how much was left over. Probably not a huge amount, if it was only one or two dollars he wouldnt mind but if it was like ten bucks maybe that would be to buy the popcorn.

I dont go to the movies much at all as they can be quite pricy but if I do errands and he asks me to buy something and gives me money it will be enought to cover the cost. I would just buy the things he asks for but its not expected I would surprise him with anything extra, unless I got a good deal or aomething or they were out of stock and I had no choice. I would keep the receipt and show him how much it cost.

or if he didnt have cash I would pay for it and he would pay me back kind of thing.

try not to feel guilty over something so minor and be thankful that your dad gave you money.

My mum would sometimes want to dictate how Id spend my birthday money she gives me, but if its. a gift then they have no control over HOW you spend that gift. Im sure shed love me to spend it on a yum cha lunch to which she is invited. But it may not happen that way.

One day you will give back to your parents everything they gave to you. But when you were young and hungry you probably didnt really think about such things.

 

[Lanolin]

your dad sounds a bit like my mum.
if your dad grew up poor thats probably why he thinks everything you have is his. Its the same attitude my mum had. It was annoying cos I couldnt just give stuff away I had bought with my own money. she would throw a fit. I couldnt quit a job I didnt like...she felt like it was HER job.

 

[Lenoralana]

Yeah... I think, depending on a person's mindset and whatever environment they were raised in... it can end up kinda making people do things different ways.

Maybe it's also possible that, in some ways... some parents never really develop or learn the distinction between "My child is an individual separate from me, with their own mind and will go their own way eventually" and "This person is merely an extension of me who has to do things my way no matter what."

And maybe in cases where some people didn't have much... their children are just another set of possessions to hold onto in a way.

Whenever I dabbled in writing, if I said I maybe wanted to get it published, Dad would pretty much take it over and even change things that I didn't want changed because it was more "scientifically accurate" or something. In my mind, he even ruined one of my characters. The result... if I wanted to share my story with someone just to share it, I shared the original version he hadn't touched. I don't think he ever even realized that the biggest reason why he never, ever got to see most of what I wrote was because of this kind of attitude and behavior.

The result... I kept most of it private, and just had a lot of fun using my flair for writing (such as it was) in fandom communities and having fun with friends who enjoyed my writing and I enjoyed theirs. I still got something out of it, other people got something out of it, and... I'm not sure if my Dad would ever know that he missed out on/was kept separate from such a huge part of my life because of his own attitude, and because he of his own emotional immaturity and just couldn't handle being told if you had a problem with him.

In some ways.... it is sad and it was his loss. In other ways, it was also natural, because parents aren't supposed to see every single thing that goes on in their children's lives anyway once they get old enough.

To give my dad a huge amount of credit, he has gotten better and he's a very responsible person nowadays, he even holds down a full time job. He also seems eager to please, and if I want to go out somewhere he'll even offer to give me a ride (I don't drive, never have) even when I didn't ask.

Honestly... there are a lot of areas where I've probably never been all that fair to my parents, and even now I do tend to have a habit of talking about the most negative examples. They really aren't bad people, and there have been many, many ways where they sacrificed their time, energy and money trying to make me happy.

I guess the biggest problem is.... while they did teach me some things, and they were at least able to make sure all or most of my needs were met in some ways... there were also a number of areas where they didn't take care of some things as well as they should have.

For the longest time, Mom's answer to problems was simply to say "Do whatever you feel is best" and then withdraw into her favorite romance novels and movies.

Dad's answer to problems was to look at porn, read some of his favorite novels, and if confronted... just explode and storm out of the room.

All of this ended up finally coming to blows in 2011 when everything had escalated to the point where their problems got so bad they could no longer ignore them, they had to face them. Thus... they finally ended up doing what they probably should have done during their dating years after about three decades of marriage; getting to know each other and talking stuff out, and setting boundaries.

Also... I think a huge part of my parents problem back in the past was that they seemed to have a very strong "don't rock the cart" mindset. They seemed to feel that the best way to keep things running smoothly was to simply not talk to anyone (Even if this rule got broken whenever anyone got lonely....) and try to keep everyone out for the most part. I think a huge part of it was also due to untreated anxiety and depression issues all around, too.

This.... sometimes almost felt like ANYTHING that went on in the house was to be treated like CIA secrets, at least... sometimes it felt like that. Sometimes, when I started going out with my cousins to the movies or some other fun event, Dad would even still try to dictate what I could or couldn't talk about.

In the end, when Mom started making friends online and started talking to them about her marriage problems she was having at the time, Dad seemed very, very angry that she would DARE talk about him or anything to do with him. She pointed out she had to talk to someone, especially since he wouldn't talk to her or work things out with her very readily.

It basically seemed like.... despite having lived in a household with family members for so many years, Dad actually had to learn that he wasn't alone in the house and that people actually have to talk about stuff. Up until that point, I guess everybody just stayed in their own spaces and didn't intersect... unless someone wanted something or something really had to be done.

Mom had even said in the past, during the worst of their arguments, that she often felt like she was married to a bachelor, because... sure, they were married, but he still sometimes acted like a single person who could do his own thing his own way.

Anyway... like I said, I am probably a bit rough or negative on my parents, cuz... it hasn't been ALL bad, they have done a lot of good things too, and they are good people overall.

Maybe in some ways, part of the reason why I end up cutting loose and talking about stuff almost every time I have an opportunity was because of how suppressed and censored I was for most of my life. They sheltered me, they kept us heavily isolated, they hated it if I said the slightest thing that they didn't want told to any other person, they never wanted to talk about anything.

I guess the result in some ways is that they raised and groomed a woman (me) who would end up turning to forums and other places to yap about stuff now that I have the personal freedom to do so, they no longer have the power to prevent it, and since I never tell them where I go on the internet or what usernames I use, well... ignorance is bliss because they will never see it anyway, and they never use forums and don't have the time to spend much time on the internet anyway.

I guess in a way... it works out all around. I get whatever emotional and mental outlet I need, they are protected from whatever nasty things I might say (even if it's well-deserved). It's... the closest to perfect any of us are gonna get in this imperfect world.

 

[Lanolin]

well everyone needs an outlet to express themselves.
Its only natural to talk or write about things going on in your life and be honest about it.

Your dad probably had. a very different upbringing , and also, many men arent raised to express any emotions at all, not have feelings, not cry...They were pretty much just expected to be like robots working for the man.

Id just pray for your dad sounds like he was the lonely one. You cant give him your childhood but you can be a comfort to him as can your mum.

so many parents do project things on to their children. It happens all the time. there used to be an expression that children were to be seen and not heard. whoever said that obviously never had a childhood. Its inevitable that children will talk go to any school playground. the screaming! the shouting! lol

 

[Lenoralana]

Yeah... I dunno, I think the crazy thing in some ways is that I have seen posts on Quora and whatever about how it seems like "many people in this generation don't have good parenting skills", when... there are some areas where I've started to wonder if any of the previous generations have been much better. (And... it seems like any person who says that the "current generation" of youngsters is worse somehow usually wants to feel like their specific era was absolutely golden, and anything wrong is the result of outliers who weren't raised the same as them or something...?)

Like... I remember my favorite aunt telling me during one of our phone chats that when she was a kid, they would sometimes go visit an older relative.... who made adamantly sure the kids would not touch ANYTHING, and would just sit in stone silence on a couch for the entire visit. I guess the older relative just liked having a clean house and she did have a lot of breakable things, but.... why invite four kids over then....?

Then I guess sometimes even adults can be pretty thick. My aunt's mom would be like, "How come you don't want to go back and visit her....?" I think, especially maybe in the older generations, adults seemed to think that it was an obligation to go visit family sometimes... and if the kids weren't happy smiley about it, the kids were just brats I guess. *shrug*

 

[Lanolin]

well all I remember visitng my grandparents was my mum dragged us along and it was very boring cos they didnt do anything with us so we just sat around their house reading the junkmail as there was nothing else to do! I think when my grandparents were younger they would take my (older) cousins to the park to play.

I think that happens with a lot of families the adults sit and yak about old times and their children are expected just to be there to be looked at.

Ive worked in retirement villages were children are basically banned. Only those older than 70 are allowed to stay there.

 

[Lenoralana]

Sometimes families can be funny. I mean...

When my mom and her youngest sister each got married, both my dad and uncle usually had the same thing to say about Mom's relatives every time there was a family-get-together, and I know it to be true because I saw it happen myself. That basically, it was kinda... irritating because several key players, namely my grandparents at at least two of my aunts, would basically try to hog the spotlight.

Everyone would just keep getting louder and louder and try to talk over each other or just be heard, until everyone was shouting. And it would go on until someone finally became aware of it and said they needed to quiet down... and they would start using inside voices again for a little while... then the cycle would continue.

During one of our phone chats, my favorite aunt said that one of the biggest problems with some extended family seemed to be that everyone wanted attention, but no-one seemed to know how to give it.

Like... there are some areas where my mother can sometimes be a good listener, but... there have always been areas where I've felt like I've had to fight with her to be able to say what I wanted to say without being interrupted. But I can't exactly blame her, not fully anyway, because... she spent a life growing up with two parents and three sisters, where she had to fight to be heard. Plus... it doesn't help that she apparently has a mental problem of some sort where she can get forgetful and distracted easily, so it can be genuinely frustrating for her if she is trying to say something, someone else cuts her off/interrupts her train of thought, and she can sometimes even forget what it was she wanted to say.

This is where Mom and I have sometimes... had some nasty clashes, because... I seem to have a photographic memory where I can remember at least some things as they actually happened. Mom is the type where she will say things, do things, stuff happens around her... and she won't remember most of it the next day.

In a lot of ways, the only thing I can do (which I have already been doing somewhat) is simply bear in mind that she thinks differently than I do, and you do need to cut her some slack because she is doing her best to work hard at a fulltime job when she isn't exactly getting any younger. And she has also told me that her brain just has a different way of organizing or taking in formation sometimes... it's not always accurate, but half the time the inaccuracies don't really do any harm or damage.

And... is a person really doing anything wrong if they don't remember things exactly the same way you do or if they don't always have some of their facts straight? That is... something I have to keep telling myself, especially where she is concerned. She does her best. She works hard, and for the most part she even tries to bend over backwards to make me happy sometimes.... even if sometimes she guesses wrong on what it was I wanted when she senses I want something from the store, she still gets me things as a thank you for what I do around the house and looking after my brother.

In the end, I have learned at least somewhat to stop being a brat and be more grateful. Maybe there are some areas where I still feel a tad "owed" because they didn't give me everything I needed during the homeschool education and they failed to teach me some life lessons, but... you just have to accept people for what they are along with their inadequacies. And... when she buys me some craft supplies, I can either be a brat and keep pointing out that what she selected wasn't really what I had in mind or what she thinks is the prettiest is actually "meh" to me, or.... I can be a good sport and look at the item through her eyes, agree that yes, it really does look nice, and maybe do something different than what I was originally planning.

There are a lot of areas where.... I have had to acknowledge that I have been a rather bratty princess for many years, and... I am at least trying to be more grateful when other people do something for me.