Lest we complain....

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Seeker47

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2018
1,217
1,033
113
#1
On occasion I have posted messages critical of the modern western church. I have read similar posts. In respect for this site, I have avoided most controversy; that restraint will remain. However, if criticisms are issued, some form of discussion should follow lest we become simple hard-hearted complainers.

So, I address a question to those who believe the church has gone astray. What two or three simple suggestions do you have to help guide the Church in America back to a more positive direction?

For example:

Use God’s name. He gave it to us for a reason. YHWH, or more commonly Jehovah in English. Replacing his name with a title, especially using “Lord” instead of his actual name, has caused great confusion and in some cases leads to false worship. I cannot think this practice pleases Him!

Second, I pray the church would begin practicing what it preaches. Acknowledging sins; seeking repentance and atonement is as necessary for the church as for its members; maybe more so. Yet I have seen a church make a serious and systematic effort to identify and correct its own sins.

Third, stop the institutional abuse of Matthew 28:19. In John 21:15-18 Yeshua spoke directly to Peter, the foundation of his church. He gave the assignment “Feed my lambs.” This was a specific instruction that Peter and the first believers understood clearly. The instruction to, “Go and teach all nations” in Matthew 28:19 is a message given to all his followers, not his church. The exclusive focus on church growth that follows this misunderstanding is not biblical.

These are not the most important issues; that is not the point. Maybe what we really need is a plain and commonly understood list of the issues that hold us back.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
29,226
10,593
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#2
Or you could just move to the south.

The people who are always complaining about the modern churches describe churches that are a lot different than most of the churches here in West tennessee. Either they are describing them wrong or the churches in West Tennessee are much better than the churches in other places. :unsure:
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
29,226
10,593
113
#3
Mind you, personally I think their descriptions are just biased. But moving down here could settle it finally, because if they describe the majority of churches in this area the same way, we definitely know what the problem is.
 
Jul 3, 2015
64,932
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#4
The disciples often called Jesus "Lord." This title, while sometimes indicating respect or authority,
in the context of the New Testament, also signifies a recognition of Jesus' divine nature and
Lordship over all. It is a key declaration of faith, particularly after the resurrection.


"Lord" as a Declaration of Divinity:
As the disciples witnessed Jesus' miracles, teachings, and ultimately His resurrection, they began to understand
Him as more than just a teacher or leader. The title "Lord" took on a deeper meaning, signifying His divine status.


Examples
Thomas' exclamation after seeing the resurrected Jesus: "My Lord and my God!" John 20 verse 28.


Peter's sermon on Pentecost, declaring Jesus as both Lord and Messiah Acts 2 verse 36.

Paul's writings, which frequently refer to Jesus as Lord.

"Jesus is Lord" as a Confession:
The phrase "Jesus is Lord" became a foundational confession of faith
in the early Church, affirming Jesus' divine authority and Lordship.



Matthew 16 verses 15-17 ~ What about you?” Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
7,027
3,145
113
47
#5
Some things have to happen in order for the masses to realize or acknowledge a message.
But as my priest as the church has said, don't try to influence the world, just make an impact in your interactions with people daily at work, at home or shopping or anywhere else near your area.
So don't start with glorious goals to 'change the world'.
As Lynx said, this is also a matter of perception. There are great churches in Tennessee and there are great churches in the north east too.
Go with an open and forgiving heart and you might find little treasures here and there.
 
Apr 7, 2024
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#6
So, I address a question to those who believe the church has gone astray. What two or three simple suggestions do you have to help guide the Church in America back to a more positive direction?
I believe the church has gone astray, but I see the problem as much more systemic than the items you have identified. I think we are in danger of having the kingdom taken away from us as it was from ancient Israel and for the same reason - unbelief. We read this warning in Romans 11:11-24.

Israel's problem of unbelief was dramatically exposed in Jesus' words to them...

39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. (Jn 5:39–40)​

He was right there in their presence. And they refused to believe in Him even while the were clinging to the Scriptures which spoke of Him.

Today, the church is filled with and run by many who are doing the same thing. They cling to the Scriptures which testify of Him living in our hearts, but they refuse to trust Him as He leads, guides, instructs, directs, corrects, and comforts them from the intimacy of their own hearts. Some even go as far as to say His voice may be the voice of demons.

So, I would say we must return to Him and learn to trust Him again if we want to keep what He has given us.
 

Seeker47

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2018
1,217
1,033
113
#7
I believe the church has gone astray, but I see the problem as much more systemic than the items you have identified. I think we are in danger of having the kingdom taken away from us as it was from ancient Israel and for the same reason - unbelief. We read this warning in Romans 11:11-24.

Israel's problem of unbelief was dramatically exposed in Jesus' words to them...

39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. (Jn 5:39–40)​

He was right there in their presence. And they refused to believe in Him even while the were clinging to the Scriptures which spoke of Him.

Today, the church is filled with and run by many who are doing the same thing. They cling to the Scriptures which testify of Him living in our hearts, but they refuse to trust Him as He leads, guides, instructs, directs, corrects, and comforts them from the intimacy of their own hearts. Some even go as far as to say His voice may be the voice of demons.

So, I would say we must return to Him and learn to trust Him again if we want to keep what He has given us.
Yes, absolutely! There are many who know selected scripture, but whose heart does not "...Panteth My Soul After Thee".

What I am trying to get at....what is needed from the modern church to address a generation of passionless lukewarm believers?

Yeshua spoke his concerns about this issue to the Angel of the Church at Laodicea. He gave some pretty clear statements about the cause; arrogance, self-reliance, wealth, and pride. He identified us as wretched, blind, naked, pitiful and poor. I haven't heard this preached lately even though many believe we are indeed lukewarm.