If the cursed fig tree is symbolic of Israel (not saying if it is) this puts all theories for future Israel very much in doubt.
LEARN IT! THAT'S AN ORDER!
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If the cursed fig tree is symbolic of Israel (not saying if it is) this puts all theories for future Israel very much in doubt.
How so? The parable occurs after Jesus spoke of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple:
(Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.)
(Luke 21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees)
Only 9 verses later after predicting the desolation he speaks the parable.
Jerusalem and the temple was sacked in the war of 66-70 AD when "Jerusalem was compassed with armies".
Israel is the fig tree, the fathers were the firstripe or first fruits of the fig tree.
Hos 9:10 (KJV) I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.
Also in Hosea God said he is done with Israel forever when the summer fruit is gathered.
lol!
why would there have to be an OT verse calling Israel a fig tree before it could be true that they are typified by what Christ says, 'behold the fig tree and all the trees' ??
Christ says "I AM the gate" -- name me an OT verse that says the Messiah is the gate? oh, does that mean it ain't true? is that some kind of rule?
but put Judges 9 together with John 6:15. in those days there was no king in Israel, and it was not Samuel they rejected, but the LORD, who is the King of kings, that they rejected as their king. or look at Jeremiah 8:13. or put Proverbs 27:18 next to Genesis 12:3 and see what it teaches.
it's time you answered a question:
why "behold the fig tree and all the trees" immediately after and in explanation of "when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies" ? why is the fig tree explicitly & purposefully separated from all other trees? in the context of all trees? in the context of the return of the true King of Israel?
this is what tells us when the time is near.
armies, plural. not army, singular. the fig tree and all the trees, not just "every kind of trees"
can you inform me why God says exactly what He says here, rather than saying something else?
Who are the fathers? I take that to mean pre-Israel, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses. He's calling Israel grapes as in vine, whereas Jesus stated Hee is the true vine not the true fig tree.
one of the 3 questions they ask Him is the sign of His coming. He did not return in 70 AD, and only one army surrounded Jerusalem at that time: Rome's. a time is coming, and is near, when many armies will surround Jerusalem. and He will destroy them with the breath of His mouth. unless, what, you think the millineum was over 900 years ago?
there also happen to be temple stones still on top of temple stones in Jerusalem. it's called "the western wall"
when He tells them the fig tree & all the trees show the coming of the season, this speaks of all 3 questions they ask.
lol!
why would there have to be an OT verse calling Israel a fig tree before it could be true that they are typified by what Christ says, 'behold the fig tree and all the trees' ??
Christ says "I AM the gate" -- name me an OT verse that says the Messiah is the gate? oh, does that mean it ain't true? is that some kind of rule?
but put Judges 9 together with John 6:15. in those days there was no king in Israel, and it was not Samuel they rejected, but the LORD, who is the King of kings, that they rejected as their king. or look at Jeremiah 8:13. or put Proverbs 27:18 next to Genesis 12:3 and see what it teaches.
I don't think Judges 9:11 has anything to do with John 6:15, neither Israel as a fig tree. They are the vine of sodom:
(Deu 32:32 For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter)
You are mixing metaphors Skele.
I don't see anything particular in Jesus mentioning the fig tree, in Matt and Mark "all the trees" are not mentioned at all. There is a measure of hyperbole in Luke with added emphasis.
It's like saying when the lights go out and the fan quits running you'll know the powers gone off.
What you are doing is fixating on the parable rather than letting the plain sense of the parable stand which the disciple never questioned him about the meaning.
I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.
(Hosea 9:10)
(Hosea 9:10)
obviously the fathers spoken of here are the ones that went to Baalpeor, the idol of the Moabites.
who did that? have a look at Numbers 23. the fathers of the Israelites, who were taken out of Egypt and wandered in the wilderness. and their descendants also, fathers of the people to whom Hosea prophesied, who also worshipped Baals.
Those are the fathers in my opinion. What’s the difference between the children of Abraham and the children of Israel? They’re all the same, the physical descendants of Abraham. I guess you could say Israel was Israel even before Israel the man or the nation was born.
If Israel is not the fig tree then what else could we say the fathers were the first fruits of? I can’t think of anything else, especially considering that the fig tree was cursed.
one of the 3 questions they ask Him is the sign of His coming. He did not return in 70 AD, and only one army surrounded Jerusalem at that time: Rome's. a time is coming, and is near, when many armies will surround Jerusalem. and He will destroy them with the breath of His mouth. unless, what, you think the millineum was over 900 years ago?
there also happen to be temple stones still on top of temple stones in Jerusalem. it's called "the western wall"
when He tells them the fig tree & all the trees show the coming of the season, this speaks of all 3 questions they ask.
He plainly stated that all would come to pass in the generation that heard him:
(Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.)
(Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled)
(Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.)
Who was supposed to come and not tarry?
(Heb 10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry)
The writer of Hebrews must have got things wrong.
I here ya on the cursed fig tree - but I'm not convinced 16. Why would Jesus use the parable of the vineyard rather than a parable of a figyard?
(Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country)
The above is plain as day that the vineyard is Israel, and the husbandmen the leaders.
(Mat 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.)
Why would Jesus switch from vines/grapes to fig tree/figs?
the Bible is what's called a 'connected graph' -- there are no isolated nodes. i don't think you've put much thought into how Judges 9 and John 6:15 are connected. not nearly enough. in Judges 9 we have three things specified, each of which refuse to be made king, each of which are called types of Israel. the olive tree, the vine, the fig tree. in John 6 Christ refuses to be made king, and He, born of Israel, is the epitome of Israel. see Psalm 22.
every place in scripture that someone refuses to be made king is connected to John 6:15.
Jesus said I am the VINE and you are the branches. Jesus is the Word of God and the vineyard in that parable is the word of God, the scripture.
God inspired Jewish men to write the scripture, Jewish men were responsible for maintain the scriptures, like making copies etc.
Israel is the husbandman in charge of taking care of the vineyard (word of God).
I can't agree to the vineyard is the Word K16 at all.
Jesus said He is the true vine not the true word although He is that.
(Psa 80:14 Return, we beseech thee, O God of hosts: look down from heaven, and behold, and visit this vine)
(Psa 80:15 And the vineyard which thy right hand hath planted, and the branch that thou madest strong for thyself)
The above ties in with "There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard" (Mat 21:33) as does the following:
(Isa 5:7 For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry)
(Isa 5:5 And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down)
(Mat 21:33 . . . . which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about . . . .)
(Jer 12:10 Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness)
That’s ok if you don’t agree on that but I think we do agree that there is more than one vine in the Bible and we have to determine which vine is which by the context.
Since you think this vine is Israel, who do you think the husbandman is?
In the parable:
(Mat 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.)
(Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son)
(Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him)
The husbandmen:
(Mat 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them)
I think this is self explanatory, same as in the wedding parable:
(Mat 22:3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come)
The servants of the King would be "courtesans" in this case the chief priests/pharisees/Sanhedrin.
(Mat 22:7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city)
We all know which city got burned.