King James vs niv

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AprilAngel said:
it seems to me you are being very judgemental and very offensive. sure the NIV may be somewhat overly translated, but for those like me with adhd and who just have a hard time understanding the KJV does not mean those who read the NIV or NLV for that matter are dumb! (I have all 3 versions and find the NLV easiest to read) does it really REALLY matter what "version" as long it is still Gods word? I even have "the message". I read and have read them all. You need to really think about the way you say things and just how idiotic you were being by that comment.


I pray God gives you eyes to see and ears to heart
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oh yes the version matters. It is your life at stake, while I regret and sympathise with your ailments. There are tapes and dvds that can help you read and understand the KJ. But most of all prayer. Smith wigglesworth was an uneducated man and could not read. But after the baptism in the Holy Spirit, he could read the bible and guess what, it was the KJ.
 
The Greek Manuscripts
Of these 5,300+ existing manuscripts, over 95% are in agreement with, and form the basis for the Textus Receptus, which is the text which the King James translators used. Strange as it may seem, Westcott and Hort threw out the preponderance of manuscript evidence and opted rather to go with the Minority Texts! Hence we have inherited an ongoing struggle among New Testament critics, accompanied by havoc and confusion in churches caused by the introduction of these conflicting New Testament Greek texts. Since 1881, most subsequent versions have followed the Minority Texts.
Study the information in the following table. Although this data was compiled in 1967, recent archeological discoveries will not significantly effect the results. This data illustrates why the Textus Receptus is referred to as the "Majority Text."




[TD="width: 96"] Type
of Manuscript [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] Total # of this
type manuscript [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] Number that
support WH* [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] Number that
support TR**
[/TD]

[TD="width: 96"] [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] [/TD]

[TD="width: 96"] Papyrus [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 88 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 13 (15%) [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 75 (85%) [/TD]

[TD="width: 96"] Unical [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 267 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 9 (3%) [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 258 (97%) [/TD]

[TD="width: 96"] Cursive [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 2764 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 23 (1%) [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 2741 (99%) [/TD]

[TD="width: 96"] Lectionary*** [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 2143 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 0 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 2143 (100%)
[/TD]
 
Kerry said:
You are admitting that you cannot understand the language. As I said my 16 teen year old has no problem with KJ and it has helped in school.

what does shaking it with my shorty teach, wow, imagine the Song of Solomon in redneck and soul.
Click to expand...
You know Kerry, not everyone is the same. you say you did not mean to call me an idiot when your exact words to me were( Sorry but you are an idiot) I forgive you for this but I also should let you know that many people have a much harder time with things. I have had brain damage twice, one from my parents and one from cancer. so understanding things is far more difficult for me, I can never drive and I am barely able to follow simple commands. Yet for everything I am weak in in the world( which is pretty much everything) God made me strong in his. I am not able to understand older languages, But God reveals to me the hidden meaning of scripture and gives me wisdom and insight in the things of God.
and you know what? there are many worse off than me, people who can barely even read or understand scripture at all. even though most of my life was hell I know there are many far worse off than me, and I have deep love and compassion on people. People I don't know, people I haven't even met or talked to. and where did I learn to have such a tender heart towards people? by spending close personal time with God and the bible. You cannot call someone an idiot because they cannot do the same things as you or believe the same things as you and be a true follower of God. A true follower of God is humble, he loves people in all his ways he teaches others with patience and kindness and he seeks a love between him and God that is rich and beautiful.
I have been a Christians for a little over a year, and even I have learned these things. I am nowhere near perfect and trust me I hate the part of me that is not like Jesus and does not love and care like he does or see people as he truly does. And I condemn or judge no one for who am I to see myself better than anyone? even you are more than likely a better person than I and you have great potential. But you lack any kind of love and humbleness and this is what holds you back and blinds you. so please, stop arguing, stop debating, stop fooling yourself into thinking you are right and change your ways. without a deep love for God our faith will fail, and without a deep love for others we will become arrogant and prideful. without a loving tender heart we will never truly know God
 
Laodicea said:
The Greek Manuscripts
Of these 5,300+ existing manuscripts, over 95% are in agreement with, and form the basis for the Textus Receptus, which is the text which the King James translators used. Strange as it may seem, Westcott and Hort threw out the preponderance of manuscript evidence and opted rather to go with the Minority Texts! Hence we have inherited an ongoing struggle among New Testament critics, accompanied by havoc and confusion in churches caused by the introduction of these conflicting New Testament Greek texts. Since 1881, most subsequent versions have followed the Minority Texts.
Study the information in the following table. Although this data was compiled in 1967, recent archeological discoveries will not significantly effect the results. This data illustrates why the Textus Receptus is referred to as the "Majority Text."



Type
of Manuscript

[TD="align: center"] Total # of this
type manuscript [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] Number that
support WH* [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] Number that
support TR** [/TD]

[TD="width: 96"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]

[TD="width: 96"] Papyrus [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 88 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 13 (15%) [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 75 (85%) [/TD]

[TD="width: 96"] Unical [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 267 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 9 (3%) [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 258 (97%) [/TD]

[TD="width: 96"] Cursive [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 2764 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 23 (1%) [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 2741 (99%) [/TD]

[TD="width: 96"] Lectionary*** [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 2143 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 0 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 2143 (100%) [/TD]
Click to expand...

good job so read that and not the new idiot version.
 
Kerry said:
oh yes the version matters. It is your life at stake, while I regret and sympathise with your ailments. There are tapes and dvds that can help you read and understand the KJ. But most of all prayer. Smith wigglesworth was an uneducated man and could not read. But after the baptism in the Holy Spirit, he could read the bible and guess what, it was the KJ.
Click to expand...

......

..
.

As per my last post (which you entirely failed to respond to), there are tapes and DVDs that can help you read Hebrew, and Aramaic and Greek. What on earth are you doing with that inferior KJV, when you could be every so smart and read directly from the source texts? There are whole COLLEGES whose express purpose is to teach Koine Greek. What do you even need an English Bible for?

Alternatively, I'm sure if you asked nicely God could bless you with the ability to understand those languages, if you find education a struggle.
 
Laodicea said:
The Greek Manuscripts
Of these 5,300+ existing manuscripts, over 95% are in agreement with, and form the basis for the Textus Receptus, which is the text which the King James translators used. Strange as it may seem, Westcott and Hort threw out the preponderance of manuscript evidence and opted rather to go with the Minority Texts! Hence we have inherited an ongoing struggle among New Testament critics, accompanied by havoc and confusion in churches caused by the introduction of these conflicting New Testament Greek texts. Since 1881, most subsequent versions have followed the Minority Texts.
Study the information in the following table. Although this data was compiled in 1967, recent archeological discoveries will not significantly effect the results. This data illustrates why the Textus Receptus is referred to as the "Majority Text."



Type
of Manuscript

[TD="align: center"] Total # of this
type manuscript [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] Number that
support WH* [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] Number that
support TR** [/TD]

[TD="width: 96"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]

[TD="width: 96"] Papyrus [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 88 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 13 (15%) [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 75 (85%) [/TD]

[TD="width: 96"] Unical [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 267 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 9 (3%) [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 258 (97%) [/TD]

[TD="width: 96"] Cursive [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 2764 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 23 (1%) [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 2741 (99%) [/TD]

[TD="width: 96"] Lectionary*** [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 2143 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 0 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 2143 (100%) [/TD]
Click to expand...

This data is extremely limited, and one sided. Foremost the Majority Text differs from the TR 1,800+ times, and the TR has readings that are not found anywhere in the Byzantine tradition, so this "Textus Receptus is referred to as the 'Majority Text'" is a fable.

The vast majority of witnesses are Byzantine in character, and are dated significantly later. Because of the 7th
c. Islamic expansion, the Eastern Church was constricted down to the area around Byzantium, and the Western Church had to abandon Greek, and adopt Latin as its primary language. Therefore, from the 7th c. onward, we find more Byzantine mss than any other family.

The fact that the majority of mss are Byzantine in character does not help your case at all, because many readings are found only in the Byzantine tradition that are not found in the Alexandrian, Western, or Caesarean families, which from a text critical stand point, could show that the reading was not well known geographically, and probably originated in Byzantium.
 
Last edited:
Laodicea said:
The Greek Manuscripts
Of these 5,300+ existing manuscripts, over 95% are in agreement with, and form the basis for the Textus Receptus, which is the text which the King James translators used. Strange as it may seem, Westcott and Hort threw out the preponderance of manuscript evidence and opted rather to go with the Minority Texts! Hence we have inherited an ongoing struggle among New Testament critics, accompanied by havoc and confusion in churches caused by the introduction of these conflicting New Testament Greek texts. Since 1881, most subsequent versions have followed the Minority Texts.
Study the information in the following table. Although this data was compiled in 1967, recent archeological discoveries will not significantly effect the results. This data illustrates why the Textus Receptus is referred to as the "Majority Text."



Type
of Manuscript

[TD="align: center"] Total # of this
type manuscript [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] Number that
support WH* [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] Number that
support TR**
[/TD]

[TD="width: 96"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]

[TD="width: 96"] Papyrus
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 88 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 13 (15%) [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 75 (85%) [/TD]

[TD="width: 96"] Unical
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 267 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 9 (3%) [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 258 (97%) [/TD]

[TD="width: 96"] Cursive [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 2764 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 23 (1%) [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 2741 (99%) [/TD]

[TD="width: 96"] Lectionary***
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 2143 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 0 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 2143 (100%) [/TD]
Click to expand...
Great post. This is what I would really love to understand, and what I read about it helped me to make my decision to go to the KJV, when I was disgusted at the changes to the 1984 NIV in the 2010 NIV.

From what I can understand, there were two guys (probable/possible Jesuits), Westcott and Hort, who conveniently discovered the Sinaiticus and Vatinus codexes. I don't really understand where these codexes fit in (i.e. what books of the bible they influence), or what the changes are exactly (verses), but I know the Jesuits are quite evil and also extremely cunning, so I wouldn't put anything past them. I therefore try to avoid anything that has possibly been poisoned by their touch. This said, I also know that KJ had sinister motives for introducing the KJV (i.e. getting rid of the margin notes in the Geneva).

Most of what I've read about these two codexes and "textus receptus" are from KJV supporters, so I'd love to hear from someone like Praus or GraceBeUntoYou their perspective, to balance what I think I know.
 
Nick01 said:
Blain, I commend you for your most recent post. You're a much better man than I am. :)
Click to expand...
No i'm really not, I am a mere sinner. I have made it my duty to become the least of everyone, to hold all others in higher regard than myself. Because my life is not to be lived for myself or for my own desires, my life is to be a slave to both God and all people. I desire to care far more for all others and their well being than myself because that is the role of a humble servant. a role I value and treasure deeply. One day I will have the great joy of seeing many others receive greater crowns and rewards in heaven than I, because they loved God even more than I could, because the sought after him even more so than I and because they loved others more than I could have.

I choose to be of less value than others because none of this is about me, it has always been about God and all of you. all of you and God are why I must be strong in faith, why I seek to be just like Jesus on the deepest level.
 
Nick01 said:
......

..
.

As per my last post (which you entirely failed to respond to), there are tapes and DVDs that can help you read Hebrew, and Aramaic and Greek. What on earth are you doing with that inferior KJV, when you could be every so smart and read directly from the source texts? There are whole COLLEGES whose express purpose is to teach Koine Greek. What do you even need an English Bible for?

Alternatively, I'm sure if you asked nicely God could bless you with the ability to understand those languages, if you find education a struggle.
Click to expand...
He understands mine just fine, Good job ,if you can't win change the subject. So why don't you read those instead of an idiots version. Whats the point. If you can read Hebrew then why argue and greek, my goodness you of all people should Know how the NIV has butchered the bible. It is the new idiots version.
 
Photoss said:
Here's from the Wiki page, New King James Version - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The New King James Version also uses the Textus Receptus ("Received Text") for the New Testament, just as the original King James Version had used. As explained in the preface, notes in the center column acknowledge variations from Novum Testamentum Graece (designated NU after Nestle-Aland and United Bible Societies) [the critical text] and the Majority Text (designated M)."

So essentially, the Critical Text (which has the codices you mentioned) was a tertiary source, used mainly for alternate readings mentioned in the margins.
Click to expand...


The NKJV uses both textus receptus and the Nestle's readings.


The NKJV denies Old Testament History by saying that all the Israelites who were led out of Egypt by Moses were destroyed.


Therefore the NKJV has created a contradiction. Because the Bible clearly states that not all of the Israelites rebelled.


First I will give you the correct reading as found in the King James Holy Bible and then I will give you the corrupt reading as found in the NKJV.


Hebrews 3:16 KJV
For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.


Hebrews 3:16 NKJV
16For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses?


Hence, this one example alone proves that the NKJV is just another counterfeit version.
 
More Deception from James White

[video=youtube;bFvsPd7-nr0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFvsPd7-nr0&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]​
 
God wants us to rightly divide the Scriptures! -By Pastor Knight

[video=youtube;HF97gYBTKwo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF97gYBTKwo&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]​
 
EdwardPf of YouTube writes about Gail Riplinger:

Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: A Critique Of Gail Riplinger's Scholarship And KJV Onlyism

"Corner then attacks Riplinger over her criticism of how the modern versions switch the KJB 'fornication' to 'sexual immorality'.(p.17)."
Click to expand...

Gail Riplinger's daughter, Bryn Riplinger Shutt, writes about Gail Riplinger:

Gail Riplinger's Fertile Imagination

"They did receive an e-mail, though, from Bryn Riplinger Shutt, Gail Riplinger’s daughter. This was sent on July 21, 2009. She claims that Gail’s first two marriages were not “consummated” and that at least one of her former husbands was a homosexual."
Click to expand...

ChosenbyHim, should Gail Riplinger divorce her homosexual husband?

ChosenbyHim said:
I do not agree with divorce as I know that it is never part of God's perfect will for any Christian. Marriage is to be for life.
Click to expand...


More Deception from Edwardpf:

ChosenbyHim said:
More Deception from James White

[video=youtube;bFvsPd7-nr0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFvsPd7-nr0&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]​
Click to expand...
 
I find this version better:

(HWP)

Fo Da Rome Peopo 3:16


16 Every place dey go,
Dey like bus up everyting,
An make big trouble fo peopo.


(Romans 3:16)
 
I just wanted to come back to this thread and say. If you need the NIV then God bless you and I hope you find peace and happiness. But, I would ponder if a preacher or teacher used it as text, Because it is not. The NIV has butchered the Holy Bible just as Obama has butchered the executive branch. If you are concerned about your walk with God, then read the KJ. That's all I'm saying.
 
You could well respect a preacher that used " Textus receptus" as his text but would anyone know what we said. But if the KJ the would say oh okay, go on preacher.
 
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