KING JAMES VERSION BIBLE VS. MODERN ENGLISH BIBLES

[trofimus]

Begotten of the father means the earthly body of Jesus, that's all it's talking about. Jesus and God are the same being , one didn't come out of the other.

[h=1]Psalm 2:7 King James Version (KJV)[/h]7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

This verse "this day have I begotten thee" is prophetic of the earthly coming of Christ, it's not something that happened in eternity past.

"The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. "
Heb 1:3

"The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
The Lord shall send out a rod of power for thee out of Sion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
With thee is dominion in the day of thy power, in the splendours of thy saints: I have begotten thee from the womb before the morning [star].
The Lord sware, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever, after the order of Melchisedec. "
Psalm 109 (110 in masoretic)

"The Lord made me the beginning of his ways for his works.
He established me before time began, before he made the earth: even before he made the depths; before the fountains of water came forth: before the mountains were settled, and before all hills, he begets me."
Proverbs 8:22

"All that belongs to my Father is mine (including eternity)."
J 16:15

Inspired by: Begotten of the Father before All Ages - Christian Research Institute

 

[trofimus]

I don't think anybody on this forum believes that God begat Jesus in eternity past. That is not a Christian creed, maybe its a catholic creed or something but not christian.

Nicene Creed is from 325 AD, its accepted by all Christians for 1700 years. Yes, its "catholic" in the proper meaning of the word (i.e. "common").

 

[KJV1611]

"The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. "
Heb 1:3

"The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
The Lord shall send out a rod of power for thee out of Sion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
With thee is dominion in the day of thy power, in the splendours of thy saints: I have begotten thee from the womb before the morning [star].
The Lord sware, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever, after the order of Melchisedec. "
Psalm 109 (110 in masoretic)

"The Lord made me the beginning of his ways for his works.
He established me before time began, before he made the earth: even before he made the depths; before the fountains of water came forth: before the mountains were settled, and before all hills, he begets me."
Proverbs 8:22

"All that belongs to my Father is mine (including eternity)."
J 16:15

Inspired by: Begotten of the Father before All Ages - Christian Research Institute

I agree with all that, that's what I've been telling you. Begat is referrring to the physical manifestation of Christ.

 

[trofimus]

I agree with all that, that's what I've been telling you. Begat is referrring to the physical manifestation of Christ.

Please, read it again, namely:

"before the morning"
"before time began"
"before he made the earth"

Its not about physical born of Christ.

 

[John146]

I agree with all that, that's what I've been telling you. Begat is referrring to the physical manifestation of Christ.

Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

 

[KJV1611]

Please, read it again, namely:

"before the morning"
"before time began"
"before he made the earth"

Its not about physical born of Christ.

I agree to disagree sorry.

 

[KJV1611]

Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

That body is begotten of the father, not Christ himself.

 

[trofimus]

I agree to disagree sorry.

I do not get it.

You agree that Christ was begotten before the time began, but it was his body?

 

[KJV1611]

That body is begotten of the father, not Christ himself.

Ok let's start with the physical body of Christ. The physical body of Christ was begotten by the Holy Spirit over shadowing Mary - God's dna combined with Mary's dna created the body of Christ... do you agree with this or no?

 

[trofimus]

Ok let's start with the physical body of Christ. The physical body of Christ was begotten by the Holy Spirit over shadowing Mary - God's dna combined with Mary's dna created the body of Christ... do you agree with this or no?

God does not have DNA...

We do not know how it was done, its a mystery.

 

[KJV1611]

God does not have DNA...

We do not know how it was done, its a mystery.

Ok, but that's not what it says in the book of Psalms about the physical body of Christ. But nonetheless, did God create a body for Christ to indwell on this earth? Yes! Was that body begotten by God?

 

[trofimus]

Ok, but that's not what it says in the book of Psalms about the physical body of Christ. But nonetheless, did God create a body for Christ to indwell on this earth? Yes! Was that body begotten by God?

I do not know, I think that the Bible says that the body was just "prepared".

"6 Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not; but a body hast thou prepared me: whole-burnt-offering and [sacrifice] for sin thou didst not require.
7 Then I said, Behold, I come: in the volume of the book it is written concerning me, 8 I desired to do thy will, O my God, and thy law in the midst of mine heart. "

Psalm 39:6

 

[KJV1611]

I do not know, I think that the Bible says that the body was just "prepared".

"6 Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not; but a body hast thou prepared me: whole-burnt-offering and [sacrifice] for sin thou didst not require.
7 Then I said, Behold, I come: in the volume of the book it is written concerning me, 8 I desired to do thy will, O my God, and thy law in the midst of mine heart. "

Psalm 39:6

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

The bolded part is talking about the physical body of Christ that God made for him... Christ the eternal being was not "made" by God.

 

[KJV1611]

Off to work for half the day, I'll be back later trof.

 

[John146]

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

The bolded part is talking about the physical body of Christ that God made for him... Christ the eternal being was not "made" by God.

The importance of the word "begotten" in Scripture. The body of Jesus was begotten by the Father and not of any man. All other men were begotten of their earthly father as in the following:

3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

You see, Jesus was the image of the invisible God.

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

This also tells us that Jesus was God manifest in the flesh as John 1:14 also states.

Without the word begotten, the doctrine is lost as in most new versions.

 

[trofimus]

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

The bolded part is talking about the physical body of Christ that God made for him... Christ the eternal being was not "made" by God.

I do not know if this verse is about body or not.

But there are other verses that CAN NOT be about physical body.

"before the morning star"
"before time began"
"before earth was made"
"only begotten God who is in the bossom of the Father"
etc.

These ones I am talking about.

 

[joefizz]

I don't think anybody on this forum believes that God begat Jesus in eternity past. That is not a Christian creed, maybe its a catholic creed or something but not christian.

Well as I understand it the nicene creed was Originally Christian but then when made universal it was used for catholic religion,which ironically is derived from Christianity...

 

[trofimus]

Well as I understand it the nicene creed was Originally Christian but then when made universal it was used for catholic religion,which ironically is derived from Christianity...

It should be accepted by all churches, including protestants: Nicene Creed

Orthodox church accepts it too, but only the Greek version, Latin version added "and Son" into Holy Spirit proceeding and eastern church did not accept that.

 

[Dino246]

Likewise, the lengths the other side will go to prove that the same God who gave us His word and commanded us to live by His word, has not made good on His promise to preserve His word for us today but what we have at best is full of errors.

Psalm 12 is the likely basis for this belief; you have cited it yourself. Here is what the KJV of these verses actually say:

[SUP]6 [/SUP]The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.


Sound understanding of scriptural truth begins with careful reading of Scripture. The Scripture does not say that God will preserve His word for all generations. Rather, and in complete refutation of your assertion, it promises that God will preserve His word from an evil generation!

Others have presented evidence that verse 7 refers to the people of God, rather than to His word. Every other use but three of "preserve" (and cognates) refers to people (two cases address wine; one case addresses knowledge). I encourage you to rethink your position on this matter.

You do understand that the the versions contain different truths. Does God contradict Himself? You can't have it your way and then attach the Lord to it. Either one of them is the word of God and only one, or none. There is no other choice.

This argument has been refuted several times. You have thus far avoided responding to the refutation, and you have repeated this canard at least three times since I refuted it. This is evidence of stubbornness and intellectual dishonesty.

 

[John146]

This argument has been refuted several times. You have thus far avoided responding to the refutation, and you have repeated this canard at least three times since I refuted it. This is evidence of stubbornness and intellectual dishonesty.

You do understand that the the versions contain different truths. Does God contradict Himself? You can't have it your way and then attach the Lord to it. Either one of them is the word of God and only one, or none. There is no other choice.

Refresh my mind, how has this statement been refuted? What's the other choice?