King James Bible

[Pray_without_ceasing]

Never go to the book of Acts for doctrine for the body of Christ. It's a transition book. I have the Holy Spirit which has sealed me for the day of redemption. Anyone speaking in tongues today may have a devil. Tongues are a sign for the Jews. I walk by faith, not by sight.

No, neighbour. You are not sealed with that holy Spirit of promise. For you have not been baptized with the Holy Ghost. If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God. The oracles of God do not say "It's a transition book". The reason why you believe in such lies is because thou received not the love of the truth, that thou mightest be saved. And for this cause God shall send thee strong delusion, that thou shouldest believe a lie: that thou mightest be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Tongues are a sign to you, thou child of disobedience. In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not. The Lord rebuke thee. How canst thou escape the damnation of hell?

Peter prophesied of you children of disobedience, saying, Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. And again, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; and shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time.

 

[John146]

No, neighbour. You are not sealed with that holy Spirit of promise. For you have not been baptized with the Holy Ghost. If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God. The oracles of God do not say "It's a transition book". The reason why you believe in such lies is because thou received not the love of the truth, that thou mightest be saved. And for this cause God shall send thee strong delusion, that thou shouldest believe a lie: that thou mightest be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Tongues are a sign to you, thou child of disobedience. In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not. The Lord rebuke thee. How canst thou escape the damnation of hell?

Peter prophesied of you children of disobedience, saying, Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. And again, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; and shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time.

Peter is specifically speaking of the generation of Jews that rejected Jesus.

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman who needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[Jocund]

As for error in the KJV. This is an example.
Isaiah 13:15 the KJV reads “joined” (“every one that is joined unto them shall
fall by the sword”). There is no support for this reading in any Hebrew
manuscript, text, ancient version, or rabbinic tradition. Instead, the cor-
rect reading is “captured” (“anyone who is captured will fall by the
sword,”)

KJV doesn't ever use the word "capture" in any instance. The word choice works around that. I would not call the KJV Isa 13:15 a mistake, it just doesn't follow some of the word choices we would find in contemporary English.

 

[Jocund]

Maybe Billy Graham went crazy early in his life? How can a Muslim receive salvation as Muslims like Jews generally reject Jesus as Saviour?

Moslems actually accept Jesus as the Messiah, they just reject Jesus' divinity as the Son of God / God the Son. Moslems believe that Jesus was a prophet from God and that he will return in the Second Coming.

Talmudic Jews on the otherhand outright believe that Jesus were continuously being cooked in boiling excrement in Shoel right now as a false prophet.

 

[Jocund]

Peter is specifically speaking of the generation of Jews that rejected Jesus.

The passages he provided are hyperlinked in his post. I think you are referencing his use of 2 Thes 2 and maybe mistaking it for Rom 9?

It's hard to tell what you are actually referencing in his post. Can you explain?

 

[Angela53510]

Just kidding, the KJV is the holy preserved words of God in the English language.

Don't hold back! Say what you really mean!

As for me, the KJV is inaccurate in
places, because it used 7 very late (15th century) manuscripts, full of additions, & copyists mistakes. It is full of archaic and obsolete language, vocabulary and grammar. Yes, second singular is totally obsolete in English. Yes, it would be handy to translate from Greek from which has 2nd person singular ( like French, German, Spanish, Ukrainian & Polish - & other languages I am not familiar with!) But , it simply doesn't exist in 21st century English!

In the 1600s they still used second singular, so as an historical document, that is correct.

But since we haven't used thees & thous for a long time, we are not taught how to spell the verbs in second singular, it really just confuses the reader. In the other languages I speak, I have been taught that verb tense! I know how to conjugate the verb that goes with it! So, it is still current use.

The KJV has been a great Bible in its time. But as far as contemporary readers are concerned, the KJV will end up confusing people, to say nothing of multiple false doctrines coming out of the KJV.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Moslems actually accept Jesus as the Messiah, they just reject Jesus' divinity as the Son of God / God the Son. Moslems believe that Jesus was a prophet from God and that he will return in the Second Coming.

Talmudic Jews on the otherhand outright believe that Jesus were continuously being cooked in boiling excrement in Shoel right now as a false prophet.

Muslims have a completely different Jesus. A false prophet who denies The Father & The Son.
Isa (Jesus) in Islamic eschatology turns Jews and Christians to Islam to telling them he was never crucified.

Never do Islamic research through the lense of Islamic belief.
That Antichrist religion must be judged from a Biblical standpoint.

 

[John146]

The passages he provided are hyperlinked in his post. I think you are referencing his use of 2 Thes 2 and maybe mistaking it for Rom 9?

It's hard to tell what you are actually referencing in his post. Can you explain?

Signs were given to Jews. That's all throughout the bible. Gentiles walk by faith not by sight. Signs were never given to Gentiles in order for them to believe the word of God.

 

[John146]

But since we haven't used thees & thous for a long time, we are not taught how to spell the verbs in second singular, it really just confuses the reader.

Then maybe the reader ought to study, to shew thyself approved unto God. If I don't understand something, it causes me to study the scriptures more and pray for understanding. Approach God's word with humility knowing we aren't going to understand everything we read.

 

[Dino246]

Then maybe the reader ought to study, to shew thyself approved unto God. If I don't understand something, it causes me to study the scriptures more and pray for understanding. Approach God's word with humility knowing we aren't going to understand everything we read.

You could at least "study to shew thyself approved" and modify the pronoun in your quote to match your subject. Without doing so, you just make yourself look foolish.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Then maybe the reader ought to study, to shew thyself approved unto God. If I don't understand something, it causes me to study the scriptures more and pray for understanding. Approach God's word with humility knowing we aren't going to understand everything we read.

You don't understand what study in the KJV means. So pray about it.
It doesn't carry the same meaning as the current English you are using in your post.

 

[Jocund]

Signs were given to Jews. That's all throughout the bible. Gentiles walk by faith not by sight. Signs were never given to Gentiles in order for them to believe the word of God.

Signs to Jews, wisdom to Greeks. Much of core Greek philosophy points to the All-God. That is not to say that Jews never experienced wisdom, nor that Greeks never had signs. It's just that those two cultures were epitomized by their respective emphasises in finding truth through signs/wisdom.

 

[Jocund]

Muslims have a completely different Jesus. A false prophet who denies The Father & The Son.
Isa (Jesus) in Islamic eschatology turns Jews and Christians to Islam to telling them he was never crucified.

Never do Islamic research through the lense of Islamic belief.
That Antichrist religion must be judged from a Biblical standpoint.

I agree that Islam is antiChrist, but there is a commonly held misconception that Moslems were outright deniers of Jesus.

They don't deny that Jesus came in the flesh as the Messiah (1 Jn 4:3 and 2 Jn 1:7 antiChrist criteria). They deny Jesus as the Son of God (1 Jn 2:22 antiChrist criterion).

 

[persistent]

I agree that Islam is antiChrist, but there is a commonly held misconception that Moslems were outright deniers of Jesus.

They don't deny that Jesus came in the flesh as the Messiah (1 Jn 4:3 and 2 Jn 1:7 antiChrist criteria). They deny Jesus as the Son of God (1 Jn 2:22 antiChrist criterion).

Some time ago I was reading, where I don't recall, of 19th century Sudanese individual claiming to be 'Mahdi'. He had some number of followers. Is the 'Mahdi', the Islamic equivalent of the Savior?

 

[fredoheaven]

You don't understand what study in the KJV means. So pray about it.
It doesn't carry the same meaning as the current English you are using in your post.

Right after the KJB 1611 was first published, a Christian Dictionary offered the same meaning of “Study” as today we know. In A Christian Dictionary Thomas Wilson (1612) has “To study and learn the Scripture til one know the points of Doctrine, and haue the power thereof in the heart. ...” Study in the KJB 1611 is the same thing as today. Could you give me a dictionary that says anything other than what this means in 1611? Thanks

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Right after the KJB 1611 was first published, a Christian Dictionary offered the same meaning of “Study” as today we know. In A Christian Dictionary Thomas Wilson (1612) has “To study and learn the Scripture til one know the points of Doctrine, and haue the power thereof in the heart. ...” Study in the KJB 1611 is the same thing as today. Could you give me a dictionary that says anything other than what this means in 1611? Thanks

Can we be certain that it's the 1612 edition that gives that definition? There were several editions of that work up to 1678.
Study seems to be a newish word in 1611. A 1604 dictionary has only Studious (from which study is derived)

Studious- diligent desirous of learning.




In any case the KJV isn't consistent in it's use of study. There are 2 different Greek words it translates as study.
one of them is translated strive in Romans 15. Nothing wrong with it, it's just a translational choice.

Study appears in the often quoted 2nd Tim 2 verse "Study to show thyself approved"
And also in the 1 Thess 4 verse " And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business,"

To study in this older usage means - be keen to do something, endeavour to do something, be diligent in doing something -
do something! (fill in the blank)
It can be used- but is not strictly limited to- reviewing reading material- the way we use it today.


https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g4704/kjv/tr/0-1/

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g5389/kjv/tr/0-1/

 

[fredoheaven]

Can we be certain that it's the 1612 edition that gives that definition? There were several editions of that work up to 1678.
Study seems to be a newish word in 1611. A 1604 dictionary has only Studious (from which study is derived)

Studious- diligent desirous of learning.

View attachment 244134


In any case the KJV isn't consistent in it's use of study. There are 2 different Greek words it translates as study.
one of them is translated strive in Romans 15. Nothing wrong with it, it's just a translational choice.

Study appears in the often quoted 2nd Tim 2 verse "Study to show thyself approved"
And also in the 1 Thess 4 verse " And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business,"

To study in this older usage means - be keen to do something, endeavour to do something, be diligent in doing something -
do something! (fill in the blank)
It can be used- but is not strictly limited to- reviewing reading material- the way we use it today.


https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g4704/kjv/tr/0-1/

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g5389/kjv/tr/0-1/

Umm, 2Tim. 2:15 is nevertheless the very definition as of today even as of Robert Cawdrey in 1604 or before that. Your definition of its older users is quite incorrect when applied to 2 Tim 2:15 based on the context. Still desirous of learning is meant when we study, it’s all about learning! The 1604 A Table Alphabetical by Robert Cawdrey does not give the full definition of what study means and yet only a derivation. We have so many dictionaries before that that does tell us also of learning things, the accusation of knowledge, application of the mind, to record in the mind, muze, thought, a library, a great number of books, etc. So, in translation, we have to remember context plays a very important role. I have no problem with 1 thes. 4 and it could mean diligence but not on 2 Tim 2:15 and the KJB is right and not in error.

Here’s the definition in 1611 by John Florio in regards to study

John Florio, Queen Anna's New World of Words (1611) (partial)

Stúdio,an earnest bending of the minde to a thing, affection to doe good or euill, study, endeuour, diligence, industry, laborious desire, mentall exercise.

Stúdio,a priuate study, cabinet, closet or any place to study in. Also an vniuersity where studies are profest. Also a Colledge where Students are. Also a standing deske in a schoole for great bookes.

Bibliotheca Scholastica

John Rider (1589)

To be Pensiue, or sorowfull.

... or careful. 1 Æger, mæstus, ad. vide careful. Pensiue, or as it were in a brown study 1 Meditabundus, cogitabundus, cogitativus, ad. Somewhat pensiue. 1 tristiculus Pensiuely, sorowfully, ...

import_contacts To Studie, or applie the minde.

... 1 Opera, f. vt operam dare alicui scientiæ, To emploie their whole studie, &c. A study by candle light. 2 Lucubratio, f. A releasing from studie. 1 Avocamentum, n. Studie, or loue of wisedome. ...

To be Wise.

... or prudence. 1 Prudentia, sapientia, sophia phronesis, 2 sagacitas, solertia f. sal, m. Loue, or study of wisdome. 1 Philosophia, f. wise, or prudent. 1 Sapiens, iorissimus, prudens, consyderatus, consultus, .

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Umm, 2Tim. 2:15 is nevertheless the very definition as of today even as of Robert Cawdrey in 1604 or before that. Your definition of its older users is quite incorrect when applied to 2 Tim 2:15 based on the context. Still desirous of learning is meant when we study, it’s all about learning! The 1604 A Table Alphabetical by Robert Cawdrey does not give the full definition of what study means and yet only a derivation. We have so many dictionaries before that that does tell us also of learning things, the accusation of knowledge, application of the mind, to record in the mind, muze, thought, a library, a great number of books, etc. So, in translation, we have to remember context plays a very important role. I have no problem with 1 thes. 4 and it could mean diligence but not on 2 Tim 2:15 and the KJB is right and not in error.

Here’s the definition in 1611 by John Florio in regards to study

John Florio, Queen Anna's New World of Words (1611) (partial)

Stúdio,an earnest bending of the minde to a thing, affection to doe good or euill, study, endeuour, diligence, industry, laborious desire, mentall exercise.

Stúdio,a priuate study, cabinet, closet or any place to study in. Also an vniuersity where studies are profest. Also a Colledge where Students are. Also a standing deske in a schoole for great bookes.

Bibliotheca Scholastica

John Rider (1589)

To be Pensiue, or sorowfull.

... or careful. 1 Æger, mæstus, ad. vide careful. Pensiue, or as it were in a brown study 1 Meditabundus, cogitabundus, cogitativus, ad. Somewhat pensiue. 1 tristiculus Pensiuely, sorowfully, ...

import_contacts To Studie, or applie the minde.

... 1 Opera, f. vt operam dare alicui scientiæ, To emploie their whole studie, &c. A study by candle light. 2 Lucubratio, f. A releasing from studie. 1 Avocamentum, n. Studie, or loue of wisedome. ...

To be Wise.

... or prudence. 1 Prudentia, sapientia, sophia phronesis, 2 sagacitas, solertia f. sal, m. Loue, or study of wisdome. 1 Philosophia, f. wise, or prudent. 1 Sapiens, iorissimus, prudens, consyderatus, consultus, .

"the KJB is right and not in error."

I didn't think it was in error in this case. All I said to begin with is that someone misunderstands it today. Many do misunderstand earlier English, it's to be expected. The same verse has "rightly dividing" which is a reasonable translation choice for the time but repeated by KJ readers often to mean something it does not.

Translators have to make translational choices, the KJ team did so in their time.
That doesn't make for a perfect translation 400 years later.
Modern translation committees make choices for the same reasons. It's the nature of the work.
We as readers should appreciate their efforts and thank The Lord for his word.