Key OT Teachings

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Jonah 1:17. "The Lord provided a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was inside the fish for three days and three nights."
This key aspect of the story of Jonah was indicated by Jesus when he said (in Matt. 12:39-40) that the only sign given
to unbelievers is that the Son of Man would be buried three days just as Jonah was in the huge fish for three days.

For believers another key aspect may be found in Jonah 2:1-9, which says that Jonah prayed to the Lord from the depths of the grave,
and God brought him up from the pit, showing that salvation comes from the Lord.
 
GWH said:
Well, on the one hand I could have cited only Gen. 1:1, because my focus was on creation in connection with Rom. 1:20
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Ok, well on that point you cited in your initial post that "God created the heavens and the earth”, how do you reconcile with Roman 1:20 which reads "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen,..." The physical universe is one expanse (singular) in which the celestial bodies of mass abode, while we can see the expanse between the earth and the moon for example, so space is known and observed so it can't be nothing, but what exactly is it?

As written the "invisible things" doesn't infer that the things which are invisible are not things, only that they are not things having mass. In such they do have an effect upon the physical matter having mass which is important to understand in regards to the Holy Ghost who himself is a physical being in this world yet having no mass. Like Jesus said to those who do not believe him about earthly things then how will they believe him when tells them of heavenly things.
 
GWH said:
The scientific “big bang” theory regarding the origin of the universe is quite compatible with the biblical story, theorizing that just before the beginning all matter in the universe was compressed to a “singularity”.
Click to expand...

The Big Bang theorizes that all space, mass, time and energy existed in a highly condensed state prior to rapidly expanding to form our known and observed universe. It hypothesis it presents is that the universe has always existed goes through a process of expanding and contraction in a perpetual cycle. It other words, it represents that the universe is eternal and therefore needs no creator.
 
UnoiAmarah said:
Ok, well on that point you cited in your initial post that "God created the heavens and the earth”, how do you reconcile with Roman 1:20 which reads "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen,..." The physical universe is one expanse (singular) in which the celestial bodies of mass abode, while we can see the expanse between the earth and the moon for example, so space is known and observed so it can't be nothing, but what exactly is it?

As written the "invisible things" doesn't infer that the things which are invisible are not things, only that they are not things having mass. In such they do have an effect upon the physical matter having mass which is important to understand in regards to the Holy Ghost who himself is a physical being in this world yet having no mass. Like Jesus said to those who do not believe him about earthly things then how will they believe him when tells them of heavenly things.
Click to expand...

Here is what I say about the TOP in Romans 1:20:

TOP #10: Although God’s creation reveals His power and love, godless people suppress truth and exchange it for the lie of idolatry. [Rom. 1:18-25, cf. #3] This is what Adam and Eve did. Paul says men are without excuse, both because God’s eternal power and moral nature (love) are manifested by creation (Rom. 1:20, cf. Job 12:7-9). Apparently, creation combined with conscience or moral sense (Rom. 2:14-16) that manifests a moral Authority TOP #23)–and combined with OT law for the Jew (TOP #22)–serves as a provisional or proto-gospel (Col. 1:23, Rom. 10:13-18, Gal. 3:8), which is the revelational basis for divine salvation and judgment (TOP #24-26 & 281).

IOW, the "invisible things" are God's power and love. Regarding the connection between God's power and physical creation, I say this:

Since the creation also manifests God (Rom. 1:20, cf. John 1:1-3 & Psa. 33:6), in a sense God may be viewed as a “Quadity”.
As Paul told the Athenians (Acts 17:28), “In Him we live and move and have our being.” God as Creation is throughout physical reality (called “panentheism”). However, since this mode of revelation is impersonal, it has rightly been de-emphasized by most Christian denominations lest it lead to pantheism.

IOW, creation is the main miracle until the resurrection.
 
The Key to understand the OT is Jesus.

Jesus is the centre of salvation. And All the OT principles or teachings pointed forward to the first or second coming of Jesus.

For example the Earthly sanctuary was a shadow of the heavenly. The plan of salvation is completely outlined in the sanctuary.
 
TMS said:
The Key to understand the OT is Jesus.

Jesus is the centre of salvation. And All the OT principles or teachings pointed forward to the first or second coming of Jesus.

For example the Earthly sanctuary was a shadow of the heavenly. The plan of salvation is completely outlined in the sanctuary.
Click to expand...

Yes, and citing the OT verses that pertain to the NT teachings is the purpose of this thread and the corresponding lesson on our website,
so if you see any that I overlooked, please let me know.
 
UnoiAmarah said:
The Big Bang theorizes that all space, mass, time and energy existed in a highly condensed state prior to rapidly expanding to form our known and observed universe. It hypothesis it presents is that the universe has always existed goes through a process of expanding and contraction in a perpetual cycle. It other words, it represents that the universe is eternal and therefore needs no creator.
Click to expand...

Atheists such as Carl Sagan used to theorize/hope that the universe was eternal, but current science has indicated it is unique,
having begun with a bang and eventually dying as the stars fade to black after our sun explodes and wipes out the earth with fire.

Quite compatible with what the Bible teaches in Genesis 1:1-3 & 2Peter 3:10-12!
 
GWH said:
Jonah 1:17. "The Lord provided a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was inside the fish for three days and three nights."
This key aspect of the story of Jonah was indicated by Jesus when he said (in Matt. 12:39-40) that the only sign given
to unbelievers is that the Son of Man would be buried three days just as Jonah was in the huge fish for three days.

For believers another key aspect may be found in Jonah 2:1-9, which says that Jonah prayed to the Lord from the depths of the grave,
and God brought him up from the pit, showing that salvation comes from the Lord.
Click to expand...

Micah contains a few interesting verses.

Micah 4:3. “They will beat their swords into plowshares… nor will they train for war anymore.” In the NT physical war is not mentioned, not even condemned as a sin, and there are only a few references to spiritual war, including Revelation 19:11, where it is connected with justice, and Revelation 12:7, which refers to war in heaven between the angels of Michael and Satan.

Micah 5:2-5. This prophesies the birthplace of Messiah, “You, Bethlehem Ephrathah… out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from… ancient times… He will stand and shepherd his flock… his greatness will reach to the ends of the earth, and he will be their peace.”

Micah 6:8. The Lord requires us "to act justly, love mercy and walk humbly with Him". Jesus alluded to this Scripture in Matthew 9:13 and 23:23.
 
GWH said:
In this thread I invite discussion of teachings that are encountered as one KISSes the OT from Genesis to Malachi. I say KISSed, because my intent is NOT to summarize historical or descriptive sections, but only mine them for significant and prescriptive material.

For example, Genesis 1:1-3 begins with “God created the heavens and the earth” by saying “Let there be…”, which indicates that the supernatural world manifests the Word of God in an impersonal way.

As Paul teaches in RM 1:20, “Since the creation of the world, God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.”

And John says in JN 1:14, “The Word became flesh [human] and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.”

The scientific “big bang” theory regarding the origin of the universe is quite compatible with the biblical story, theorizing that just before the beginning all matter in the universe was compressed to a “singularity”.

The point of GN is not how the world was created or how long it took, but who created it and why. It is concerned with metaphysics rather than mere physics.

Are there any other comments on GN 1:1-3, and if not, would someone like to lead discussion of the next key topic that would seem to be found in GN 1:4-25?
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Genesis 1
King James Version
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Verse 1, he created it, so IT WAS NOT HERE.
2. So the earth was WITHOUT FORM AND VOID.
3. Let there be light, MEANING NO LIGHT BEFORE.
5. GOD called the light day and darkness night.

NOTE: AND THE EVENING AND THE MORNING WERE THE FIRST DAY.

So the only question is did it take the sun to rotate around the earth 24 hours or millions of years to make the first evening and the first morning??

If it was millions of years how fast was it tralving?

We know that the sun and the moon control the tides so if it took millions of years for one rotation how would that affect the tides, the fish in the seas not having any sun for millions of years?

When he created the trees, now would they survive without the sun for millions of years.

When did time start the 24 hour days and not millions of years?
 
Ouch said:
Genesis 1 King James Version
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Verse 1, he created it, so IT WAS NOT HERE.
2. So the earth was WITHOUT FORM AND VOID.
3. Let there be light, MEANING NO LIGHT BEFORE.
5. GOD called the light day and darkness night.
NOTE: AND THE EVENING AND THE MORNING WERE THE FIRST DAY.

So the only question is did it take the sun to rotate around the earth 24 hours or millions of years to make the first evening and the first morning??
If it was millions of years how fast was it tralving?
We know that the sun and the moon control the tides so if it took millions of years for one rotation how would that affect the tides, the fish in the seas not having any sun for millions of years?
When he created the trees, now would they survive without the sun for millions of years.
When did time start the 24 hour days and not millions of years?
Click to expand...

The Bible is not concerned with answering how God created, but rather with how humans God created should live.
Physical science IS concerned with understanding how the material world was created, but more so with how it operates.
How to harmonize the two is indicated by 2Peter 3:3-13.
 
GWH said:
All I added was:

The scientific “big bang” theory regarding the origin of the universe is quite compatible with the biblical story, theorizing that just before the beginning all matter in the universe was compressed to a “singularity”.

The point of GN is not how the world was created or how long it took, but who created it and why. It is concerned with metaphysics rather than mere physics.

What is wrong (contradicts Scripture) with that? YOU just added:

Science's reasoning for Creation is simply against what the Lord said in His word, they do not agree and the believers of either doctrine do not agree and would not be able to have a long conversation on the Matter.

Genesis is never concerned with the word you used, it is Concerned with edifying Partakers of Christianity with what our God did and how HE did it. The world Manifested because the Son of God told it to. Jehovah spoke, and thus it was, just as the Father of Spirits taught Him.

Shouldn't you practice what you preach? (Which is: just post what God said in His Word without adding words to the Bible.)
Click to expand...

I agree ONLY with your last paragraph!
 
GWH said:
The Bible is not concerned with answering how God created, but rather with how humans God created should live.
Physical science IS concerned with understanding how the material world was created, but more so with how it operates.
How to harmonize the two is indicated by 2Peter 3:3-13.
Click to expand...

The only harmonization you’re going to find is knowing that NO ONE will ever know the work of God in the beginning!

-“then I saw all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun. For though a man labors to discover it, yet he will not find it; moreover, though a wise man attempts to know it, he will not be able to find it.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭8‬:‭17‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
 
TruthDefender said:
I agree ONLY with your last paragraph!
Click to expand...

Well good; one less thang. Not sure why you don’t share my amazement that science agrees so well with Scripture. Perhaps you don’t remember Carl Sagan and other atheists hoping science would prove that the universe is oscillating and thus not created.
 
TruthDefender said:
The only harmonization you’re going to find is knowing that NO ONE will ever know the work of God in the beginning!

-“then I saw all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun. For though a man labors to discover it, yet he will not find it; moreover, though a wise man attempts to know it, he will not be able to find it.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭8‬:‭17‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Click to expand...

Do you believe the NT reveals more about God’s work than the OT?
Do you believe God is manifested by creation or separate from it?
Do you believe that God is tricky?
 
GWH said:
Well good; one less thang. Not sure why you don’t share my amazement that science agrees so well with Scripture. Perhaps you don’t remember Carl Sagan and other atheists hoping science would prove that the universe is oscillating and thus not created.
Click to expand...

I don’t agree with the ever oscillating THEORIES of evolution. It goes agains Creationism. Blessings!
 
GWH said:
In this thread I invite discussion of teachings that are encountered as one KISSes the OT from Genesis to Malachi. I say KISSed, because my intent is NOT to summarize historical or descriptive sections, but only mine them for significant and prescriptive material.

For example, Genesis 1:1-3 begins with “God created the heavens and the earth” by saying “Let there be…”, which indicates that the supernatural world manifests the Word of God in an impersonal way.

As Paul teaches in RM 1:20, “Since the creation of the world, God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.”

And John says in JN 1:14, “The Word became flesh [human] and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.”

The scientific “big bang” theory regarding the origin of the universe is quite compatible with the biblical story, theorizing that just before the beginning all matter in the universe was compressed to a “singularity”.

The point of GN is not how the world was created or how long it took, but who created it and why. It is concerned with metaphysics rather than mere physics.

Are there any other comments on GN 1:1-3, and if not, would someone like to lead discussion of the next key topic that would seem to be found in GN 1:4-25?
Click to expand...

i think this is an important one

“And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭18:17-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And becomes more relevant as we begin to see the nt

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and more and more as we read the apostles teachings

“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:22-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think this inderrrsnding can help alot of people who are looking at Moses words n the ot rather than Jesus words in the nt when he came forth according to the prophets writings beforhand
 
GWH said:
Do you believe the NT reveals more about God’s work than the OT?
Do you believe God is manifested by creation or separate from it?
Do you believe that God is tricky?
Click to expand...

Everything was created through Jesus; He was in the beginning. He fulfilled the OT; everything was completed in the OT. God spoke it in creation and it was so. Everything was created in 6 days. I believe in what He said!!
 
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GWH said:
The Bible is not concerned with answering how God created, but rather with how humans God created should live.
Physical science IS concerned with understanding how the material world was created, but more so with how it operates.
How to harmonize the two is indicated by 2Peter 3:3-13.
Click to expand...

Just harmonizing with HIS word, the earth is not millions of years old.
 
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TruthDefender said:
Everything was created through Jesus; He was in the beginning. He fulfilled the OT; everything was completed in the OT. God spoke it in creation and it was so. Everything was created in 6 days. I believe in what He said!!
Click to expand...

No, you don't, because He said the NT reveals more about GW than the OT, God is omnipresent in creation, and God is NOT tricky!
Thus, scientific facts about how the universe operates do not contradict biblical truth about who operates it and why.
 
GWH said:
No, you don't, because He said the NT reveals more about GW than the OT, God is omnipresent in creation, and God is NOT tricky!
Thus, scientific facts about how the universe operates do not contradict biblical truth about who operates it and why.
Click to expand...

Well now, that’s your opinion! FYI, I never answered your direct questions, but I just stated facts about what He said. And I NEVER stated that God is tricky!!! (?)
Don’t put words in my mouth that I never stated or even implied.

NO, I don’t believe in any theories of evolution; quacky and bizarre. It doesn’t align with Creationism.
 
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