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jesus is not God
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To me, FATHER Yahweh's SON is not FATHER Yahweh transformed or 'incarnated' in the flesh. To me, Yahshua was manifest (MADE KNOWN or REVEALED) in the flesh in this last time period as Scripture clearly teaches. Yahshua is our mediator, intercessor and our advocate with FATHER Yahweh in this last time period and the spokesman of his and our Heavenly FATHER and Creator's word in this last time period as Hebrews 1:1-2 makes perfectly clear. To me, Yahshua IS NOT FATHER Yahweh, but is in fact the SON of FATHER Yahweh. I know this for a fact since, in the so-called "New Testament" Yahshua frequently gives reference to Yahweh as his and our FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN when he himself WAS HERE ON EARTH or "IN THE WORLD". FATHER Yahweh also gives reference to Yahshua as His SON FROM HEAVEN when Yahshua WAS HERE ON EARTH or "IN THE WORLD" in this same section of Scripture.
Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
"Jesus IS God!"?
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theBibleisawsome
Guest
So when u told me I need to take reading classes cause I can't understand u n I can't communicate very well in English that wasn't insult z were they compliments?
Yahchanan clearly gives reason in his writings of why he wrote what it is that he wrote and it is as follows:
But these are written that you may believe that Yahshua is the Messiah, the SON of Yahweh, and that by believing you may have life in his name (Yahchanan [John] 20:31).
Nowhere in Yahchanan's writing does he ever ask us to believe "Jesus IS God!", nor does he ever give reason for his writing what he wrote to defend the doctrine "Deity of Jesus Christ". Nowhere in the whole of Scripture is this doctrine ever taught.
I was thinking that maybe you were a foreigner because of the manner in which you handled text in English. Since you misunderstood what I was saying and saying things that I did not say, I simply suggested that you take a reading comprehension course. My seeing you as illiterate in communicating in the English language was not an insult, but was simply my honest opinion of your writing and comprehension skills in communicating in the English language.
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zackabba
Guest
Okay- I don't know if you're purposefully skipping this question or not, but just answer this clearly so I don't misquote you or misunderstand you:
Is Jesus, Yeshua, worthy of just as much worship as God the Father, and the same type of worship?
Nowhere in Scripture is there a so-called "Divinity of Jesus Christ" doctrine ever taught or even mentioned. I simply "worship" Yahshua as FATHER Yahweh's SON and as the promised, prophesied humble servant of His and our FATHER Yahweh. It is not only "deity" that are "worshiped" in Scripture, but there are also mere men that are "worshiped" in Scripture. My beliefs are not based on what it is that you believe, but my beliefs are based on what is actually taught and SAID in Scripture.
Word Studies On Worship
(shachah, latreuo, and proskuneo)
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zackabba
Guest
"Let US MAKE man in our image." (Genesis 1:26)
If God is referring to the angels here, then this means that they also created ("US") along with God.
If God is referring to the angels here, then this means that they also created ("US") along with God.
Yes, Yahshua is most certainly worthy of just as much worship as his and our FATHER Yahweh, but he certainly is not worthy of the same type of worship, since Father Yahweh is to be worshiped as our Heavenly FATHER and Creator. Yahshua is NOT our Heavenly FATHER and Creator, but is in fact his and our Heavenly FATHER and Creator's SON.
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zackabba
Guest
Okay. So, when in Revelation 5 Jesus, the Lamb, is given the same type of worship as the Father, is that wrong?
I believe that Father Yahweh was consulting with and speaking to the heavenly host THAT HE HAD CREATED before He created mankind. I do not believe that the heavenly host participated in the creation of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM, but that Father Yahweh "ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF" created and that there was no one beside Him in His creative work.
LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE
Genesis 1:26,27
By Voy Wilks
8/31/98
Nowhere in Revelation is it ever said "Yahshua is given the same type of worship as the Father.".
Word Studies On Worship
(shachah, latreuo, and proskuneo)
Z
zackabba
Guest
Frank - there's no early support for any kind of "majestic plural" - that didn't come until later in history.
If you can show me evidence that it was used, around the same time Genesis was written, in other literature, I would accept your proposition.
Also, God has one image, not three.
Z
zackabba
Guest
Are you serious?
Revelation 4
5Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God; 6and before the throne there was something like a sea of glass, like crystal; and in the center and around the throne, four living creatures full of eyes in front and behind. 7The first creature was like a lion, and the second creature like a calf, and the third creature had a face like that of a man, and the fourth creature was like a flying eagle. 8And the four living creatures, each one of them having six wings, are full of eyes around and within; and day and night they do not cease to say,
“HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is THE LORD GOD, THE ALMIGHTY, WHO WAS AND WHO IS AND WHO IS TO COME.”
9And when the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, to Him who lives forever and ever, 10the twenty-four elders will fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and will worship Him who lives forever and ever, and will cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11“Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created.”
Revelation 5
1I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a book written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals. 2And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the book and to break its seals?” 3And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the book or to look into it. 4Then I began to weep greatly because no one was found worthy to open the book or to look into it; 5and one of the elders said to me, “Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals.”
6And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. 7And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. 8When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.
10“You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”
11Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, 12saying with a loud voice,
“Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.”
13And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, “To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.”
14And the four living creatures kept saying, “Amen.” And the elders fell down and worshiped.
It even says that the Lamb is to receive "wealth," which God does not receive (in this passage) - 5:12.
Worship is the same for the Lamb as is for the Father, Frank.
I believe that Father Yahweh is one (echad) as Scripture clearly teaches, not two (Twinity or Dualistic) or three (Trinity).
LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE
Genesis 1:26,27
By Voy Wilks
8/31/98
P
pentecostal
Guest
The word 'manifested' means to appear or to become evident. 1 Timothy 3:16 says that 'God was manifested in the flesh....' God was invisible to the human eye until such time as He appeared as a human being, born of Mary in Bethlehem.
For this reason Jesus could say, 'He who has seen Me has seen the Father' (John 14:9). 1 John 3:5 also speaks of God's manifestation in flesh when it says, 'And you know that He [God] was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.' This is saying that the reason God became a man was to take away our sins by bearing them in 'His own body on the tree' (1 Peter 2:24).
In contrast, 1 John 3:8 says, 'For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.' The Son of God was the man. In this since, He is the manifestation of God in flesh. When John says that the Son was manifested, He is speaking of the fact that the man Jesus was fully recognized as being the Son of God by His resurrection. This idea is captured in Romans 1:3-4, which says, 'Concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.
' It was by means of the resurrection that Jesus destroyed the works of the devil, the primary work being death. As Colossians 2:15 says of Jesus, 'Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.' And as Hebrews 2:14 says, 'He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil.
' Jesus conquered death by dying Himself in the flesh and then resurrecting His own dead body from the grave. This was the manifestation of the Son of God. This is how we no absolutely for certain that Jesus is the Son of God. This is the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Yes, I am very serious! Again, nowhere in Revelation is it ever said "Yahshua is given the same type of worship as the Father." and you have yet to show me where it SAYS such foolishness.
Word Studies On Worship
(shachah, latreuo, and proskuneo)
FATHER Yahweh did not appear as a human being and was not born. It was His SON who came in the flesh and was born or begotten as a human being. Mariam was not the mother of FATHER Yahweh, but was the mother of Yahshua. FATHER Yahweh is not a SON, but is in fact "the FATHER". Any simpleton knows that one cannot be their own father and that one can not be their own son.
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pentecostal
Guest
In Genesis 1:26, Elohim (plural) said (third masculine singular), “Let us make13 (first person common plural) man (noun masculine singular) in our image (“image” is a masculine singular noun with a first person common plural suffix), after our likeness (“likeness” is a feminine singular noun with a first person common plural suffix).”
Grammatically, the words “make,” “us” and “our” in this verse cannot refer to Elohim alone, for the verb directly connected with Elohim (“said”) is singular. The doctrine of verbal plenary inspiration means the Bible is inspired, even to its very words, and inspiration extends to every word in the Bible. This means even verb tense and number is inspired. If Elohim had intended here to include only Himself in His address, He would have used a singular verb and pronouns. If Elohim were more than one, it would be appropriate to use the plural form of “make” and the plural pronouns “us” and “our,” but in that case, the verb “said” would be plural as well.
Thus, the grammar makes clear that when the singular Elohim spoke, He included someone else in His statement. The Jewish people, who are of course strictly monotheistic, have long held that in Genesis 1:26 Elohim addressed the angels in a courteous consideration for the attendants at His heavenly court when He said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.” This is not unreasonable, for Job 38:7 indicates the angels were present at creation, rejoicing in the works of God. Others suppose we should take the plural pronouns, like the plural Elohim, as a “plural of majesty.
” Ezra 4:18 is appealed to for support. Here, in response to a letter, King Artaxerxes says, “The letter which ye sent unto us hath been plainly read before me.” The letter was to Artaxerxes alone, and in the same breath he uses both a plural and a singular pronoun of himself. Historically, kings of the earth have used plural pronouns of themselves. Perhaps that is the use the Great King makes of a plural verb and plural pronouns in the few verses of Scripture where they appear.
But if so, one is left to wonder why, in thousands of cases, Elohim uses singular verbs and pronouns of Himself, and why He would use plural verbs and nouns in only four verses in the entire Bible. Why would He not use either singular verbs and pronouns exclusively or plural verbs and pronouns exclusively? The sparse use of plural verbs and pronouns must indicate some specific, limited purpose.
The simplest explanation, and the one which agrees with the inspired grammar most closely, is that in these few verses Elohim is graciously including others, angelic beings, in His address. Angels did not actually make man, any more than believers today actually work miracles (see John 14:12; Matthew 10:8); God has graciously allowed us to be laborers together with Him (I Corinthians 3:9). Perhaps there is some similarity here to the way God included the angels in His work.
Yahshua did not "[resurrect] his own dead body from the grave." It was his and our FATHER Yahweh who raised (resurrected) and redeemed His SON Yahshua from death and the grave.
Who Raised Yahshua From The Dead?
By Voy Wilks
11/12/2003
The question has been asked: Who raised Yahshua from the dead, from the grave?. Was it Yahshua himself, or was it Yahweh the heavenly Father? Thhree Scriptures seem to indicate Yahshua raised himself, with no help from anyone. Let us examine these Scriptures.
Did Yahshua Raise Himself From the Grave?
Three Scriptures
(1) "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up. The Jews then said, It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it in three days? But he spoke of the temple of his body. When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this and they believed ..." (John 2:19-22, RSV).
(2) "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. ... I lay down my life for the sheep. ... For this reason the Father loves me because, I lay down my life, that I may take it again" (John 10:15-17).
(3) "No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again; this charge I have received from my Father" (John 10:18).
Apparently these three Scriptures are the only ones that seem to say Yahshua raised himself. Listed below are twenty-three Scriptures which clearly report that Yahweh raised Yahshua from the dead. What should we do in this case? We should always accept the clear-cut Scriptures in preference to those which are not so clear. Now to comment:
We notice in John 2:19-21, Yahshua spoke in a parable, apparently to frustrate his Jewish enemies.
John 10:17, standing alone, is not conclusive. If Yahweh raised Yahshua from the dead, as reported by twenty-three Scriptures listed below, then Yahshua, because of the Father's promise, could "take up his life again." And what was Yahweh's promise? That Yahshua would not suffer any decay but would be raised from the grave the third day (Acts 2:25-28). Yahweh would not allow Hades to continue holding Yahshua, proof that Yahshua did not raise himself.
John 10:18, as it reads in the KJV and the RSV, appears to be conclusive. Yahshua raised himself. But wait. Let us consult other versions. We hardly want a statement which conflicts with the twenty-three Scriptures listed below.
The understanding seems to lay in the Greek word exousia, here translated power in the KJV. Young's Concordance shows 29 times that exousia is translated authority. Authority is the word which appears in many English versions the past 200 years (John 10:18). Now note the difference this makes.
* "The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life - only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down on my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father" (John 10:18, NIV).
* "For this reason my Father loves me, because I am laying down my life to receive it back again. No one takes it away from me, but I myself am laying it down. I am authorized to lay it down, and I am authorized to take it back again. This is the command I received from my Father" (John 10:17,18, Weymouth Version).
Comment: If Yahweh commands, it will be done. Yahshua arose from the dead at Yahweh's command. Someone authorized Yahshua to do these things. Who was this? Obviously, it was Yahweh, the Father. So it appears that Yahshua did not raise himself from the dead.
* "As for the Father, he does indeed love me, and this because I lay down my life, doing so that I may take it afterwards. No one takes it away from me. I lay it down of my own free will. I have been given the right to lay it down and I have been given the right to take it up again afterwards. This is the charge I have received from my Father" (John 10:17,18, Cassirer Version).
Question: Who gave Yahshua this right? It must have been Yahweh.
Here is a list of only some of the versions of the Scriptures which agree with the NIV, Weymouth and Cassirer Versions. Not power to rise, but authorized to rise from the dead.
New American Standard Bible
Wuest Version
The Diaglott, By Ben Wilson
Knox Version
New English Bible
New Century Version
The Beck Version
The Koster Bible
Young's Literal Translation
Berkeley Version
Good News Bible
Ferrar Fenton Version
New World Translation
Charles B. Williams Version
The James Duncan Version
The Emphasized Bible
The Norlie Version
Did Yahweh (the heavenly Father) Raise Yahshua?
Twenty-three Scriptures
* "But Yahweh raised him up, having loosed the pangs of death ... (Acts 2:24, RSV).
* "... he [David] foresaw and spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned in Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. This Yahshua Yahweh raised up, and of that we are all witnesses" (Acts 2:31,32).
* "... and you killed the author of life, whom Yahweh raised from the dead" (Acts 3:15).
* "... be it known to you all, and to the people of Israel, that by the name of Yahshua Messiah of Nazareth, whom you impaled, whom Yahweh raised from the dead, by him this man is standing before you well" (Acts 4:10).
* "The Elohim of our fathers raised Yahshua whom you killed by hanging him on a tree. Yahweh exalted him at his right hand ... (Acts 5:30).
* "They put him to death by hanging him on a tree, but Yahweh raised him on the third day ..." (Acts 10:40).
* "... they took him down from a tree and laid him in a tomb, but Yahweh raised him from the dead ..." (Acts 13:30).
* "We bring you good news that what Yahweh promised to the fathers, this he has fulfilled to us their children by raising Yahshua ..." (Acts 13:32,33).
* "And as for the fact that he [Yahweh] raised him [Yahshua] from the dead, no more to return to corruption, ..." (Acts 13:34).
* "But he whom Yahweh raised up saw no corruption" (Acts 13:37).
* "But now he [Yahweh] commands all men everywhere to repent because he [Yahweh] has appointed and of this he [Yahweh] has given assurance to all men by raising him [Yahshua] from the dead" (Acts 17:3).
* "It will be reckoned to us who believe in him [Yahweh] who raised from the dead Yahshua our Master who was put to death for our trespasses and raised for our justification" (Romans 4:24,25).
* "so that, as the Messiah was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life" (Romans 6:4).
* "If the spirit of him [Yahweh] who raised Yahshua from the dead dwell in you, he [Yahweh] who raised the Messiah Yahshua from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also, ..." (Romans 8:11).
* "...if you confess with your lips that Yahshua is Master and believe in your heart that Yahweh raised him [Yahshua] from the dead, you will be saved" (Romans 10:9).
Question: Do you want to be saved? Then you must believe it was Yahweh who raised Yahshua from the dead. Two separate parties: one in the grave, and one who raised him.
Webmaster's Note: FATHER Yahweh is immortal. He is The Eternal and Everlasting FATHER. He can not and will never die. His SON Yahshua was born a mortal being, can die and did die by being executed by mere men. It would be quite impossible for mere men to execute FATHER Yahweh by nailing Him to a pagan cross or by any other means of execution. FATHER Yahweh's SON Yahshua has been raised from the dead by his and our FATHER Yahweh and is now an immortal being that sits exalted at his and our FATHER Yahweh's right hand (Acts 5:30). Also, pay very close attention to the following concluding verses:
* "And Yahweh raised Yahshua and will also raise us up by his power" (1 Cor. 6:14).
* "... if the Messiah has not been raised then our preaching is in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting Yahweh because we testify of Yahweh that he [Yahweh] raised the Messiah, ..." (1 Cor. 15:14,15).
* "... knowing that he [Yahweh] who raised the Master Yahshua will raise us also and bring us with you in his presence ..." (2 Cor. 4:14).
* "Paul an apostle, not from man nor through man, but through Yahshua Messiah and Yahweh the Father who raised him [Yahshua] from the dead ..." (Gal. 1:1).
* "the working of his [Yahweh's] great might which he accomplished in the Messiah when he [Yahweh] raised him [Yahshua] from the dead, and made him [Yahshua] sit at his [Yahweh's] right hand ..." (Eph. 1:20).
* "... and you were buried with him [Yahshua] in baptism, in which you were also raised with him [the Messiah] through faith in the working of Yahweh who raised him [Yahshua] from the dead" (Col 2:12).
* "... how you turned to Yahweh from idols to serve a true and living Elohim, and to wait for his son [Yahshua] from heaven whom he [Yahweh] raised from the dead, Yahshua who delivers us from the wrath to come" (1 Thes. 1:10).
* "Through him you have confidence in Yahweh, who raised him [Yahshua] from the dead and gave him [Yahshua] glory ..." (1 Peter 1:21).
Conclusion
Yahweh the Father raised Yahshua from the dead (the grave, Hades). Yahshua had faith that he would not see corution, but would be raised by the Father on the third day. He could have backed out at any time, but he did not. Remember his agony in the garden? "If possible, let this cup pass from me." He went through death, and rose again to save you and me, and to give us the gift of Yahweh - Eternal life in Yahshua Messiah (Romans 6:23). Praise Yahweh and his son Yahshua the Messiah for their wonderful love and their wonderful deeds. Halleluyah!
SOURCE
Also see:
Did Jesus Raise Himself From the Dead?
A Restoration Light Publication