jesus is not God

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Read Genesis Chapter 1 verse 26 Who else could He be talking about when He said "IN OUR IMAGE"
 
nevergivingupmarty said:
Read Genesis Chapter 1 verse 26 Who else could He be talking about when He said "IN OUR IMAGE"
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Are you ASSUMING that He was speaking to YOUR "Jesus" as a "pre-existent being"? I believe that Yahweh was speaking here to the heavenly host (malakim ["angels"]) that He had created before he created mankind. Yahshua did not pre-exist his birth, but was born or came into existence and was MADE in Yahweh's image in this last time period.


LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE
Genesis 1:26,27
By Voy Wilks
8/31/98
 
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pentecostal said:
We should pick up on the fact that God is never referred to as "Yeshua" (Jesus) in the OT. He is always referred to as YHWH. If God's name has always been Jesus (as some claim) it would seem strange that He never referred to Himself as such, nor was He ever called that until the NT. It might be counter-argued that while God was called YHWH in the OT, He is never called by such in the NT.

But is God called YHWH in the NT? Yes, in its expanded form as "Jesus," meaning "YHWH is salvation." The name "Jesus," found exclusively in the NT, is a continuation of the revealed name of God found throughout the OT. "Jesus" is not a new name. The name of Jesus encompasses the fullness of God's revelation of Himself to man--as Savior.

The name "Jesus" is so important to us because it is an expanded form of the same divine name revealed in the OT. It is not a different name. It is only greater in that it more fully expresses who God is to us--Savior. Truly God's name is Jesus, because God's name is YHWH. We confess that God's name is YHWH every time we confess Him as Jesus.
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Very interesting (and this is with your other responses to me as well). Never thought of it that way.

Now, I'll be on the other side of the fence for a moment - weren't there many people name Jesus? This doesn't automatically make them YHWH.
 
Frank4YAHWEH said:
Yes, I honor the SON just as a honor the FATHER. I also honor my father and mother just as I honor FATHER Yahweh. Asking one to honor someone just as you would honor someone else is not asking one to believe that they are "one and the same being".

As for "worship", Yahshua is most certainly worthy of "worship", but certainly not as his and our FATHER Yahweh!

Word Studies On Worship
(shachah, latreuo, and proskuneo)
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Well, that's good that you honor your father and mother just as you honor the Father.

Jesus is different, however. He is more and better than anyone's mother or father. In fact, He said to hate them in comparison to loving Him! (Luke 14)


Now, if you really mean that Jesus is not worthy of just as much worship as the Father, then I would put forward that you have never seen God - you have never seen Jesus.


Frank - think of this. If Jesus truly is worthy of this worship, then you're holding this back from Him, and you are *not* honoring Jesus as you honor the Father. Here's the difference - your mother and father never asked you to follow them to death, have they? Are your father and mother going to be worshiped on the same level as the Father? No! None of us will.


But Jesus will (Revelation 5). So you might as well worship Him as you worship the Father now Frank.
 
Frank4YAHWEH said:
Yes, I do "worship" Yahshua as he deserves to be worshiped, but I certainly do not "worship" him and his and our Heavenly FATHER and Creator Yahweh. I "worship" him as his and our Heavenly FATHER and Creator's SON. Any simpleton knows that one can not be their own father and that one can not be their own son!


Word Studies On Worship
(shachah, latreuo, and proskuneo)
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Well good thing I'm not a simpleton!...who are you attacking? I don't believe that God is his own Father - you're assuming that God is just one person (the Father) right from the start.
 
zackabba said:
Very interesting (and this is with your other responses to me as well). Never thought of it that way.

Now, I'll be on the other side of the fence for a moment - weren't there many people name Jesus? This doesn't automatically make them YHWH.
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Very true, in Catholic Bibles theres a book called Sirach and it gets it name because it was written by "Jesus Ben Sirach". I guess you could also call the book Jesus, but that would be kinda tacky. Or you can call it Ecclesiasticus (full form: "Liber Ecclesiasticus", literally, "church book").
 
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Mary was visited by an Angel that told her she would be concieving the son of God. Another Angel visited Joseph and told him that it was indeed the son of God Mary was carrying. So yes, I look at it this way. God brought down his son. A part of him on Earth to be with us. It's like trying to help a hurt scared bird. I know I tried to help and it had hurt wings. It was scared of me. It didn't realize I was trying to help it and loved it. It just kept going further and further away from me as Id approach it. Then I thought how much easier it would be if I could temporarily be a bird. So that this bird could understand me and that Im here to help. Thats a metaphor. But thats my view on it.
 
Frank4YAHWEH said:
Are you ASSUMING that He was speaking to YOUR "Jesus" as a "pre-existent being"? I believe that Yahweh was speaking here to the heavenly host (malakim ["angels"]) that He had created before he created mankind. Yahshua did not pre-exist his birth, but was born or came into existence and was MADE in Yahweh's image in this last time period.


LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE
Genesis 1:26,27
By Voy Wilks
8/31/98
Click to expand...

Frank - where in the Bible does it say the angels created with God?
 
theBibleisawsome said:
Frank r u saying were made in the image of angels?
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Yahweh said, not I. The following is from the creation accounts recorded in Genesis 1:26 - 5:5:

Mankind (Adam and Eve) Were Made Or Created In The Image or Likeness of Yahweh And The Malakim ["Angels"]

And Yahweh said, Let US make Man in OUR IMAGE, after OUR LIKENESS: and let THEM ... So Yahweh created Man in His Own IMAGE, in the IMAGE of Yahweh created He THEM; MALE AND FEMALE created He THEM. ...

And Yahweh Almighty formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. And Yahweh Almighty planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there He put the man whom He had formed. ... And Yahweh Almighty took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to work it and to keep it. And Yahweh Almighty said, It is not right that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him. And Yahweh Almighty caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up its place with flesh; And from the rib, which Yahweh Almighty had taken from man, made He a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

This is the book of the generations of Adam. At the time that Yahweh created Man, in the LIKENESS of Yahweh made He THEM; MALE AND FEMALE created He THEM; and blessed THEM, and CALL THEIR NAME ADAM, at the time when THEY were created. And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in THEIR own likeness, after THEIR image; and called his name Seth: And the time of Adam after THEY had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and THEY begat sons and daughters: Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then THEY died.
 
zackabba said:
Well, that's good that you honor your father and mother just as you honor the Father.

Jesus is different, however. He is more and better than anyone's mother or father. In fact, He said to hate them in comparison to loving Him! (Luke 14)


Now, if you really mean that Jesus is not worthy of just as much worship as the Father, then I would put forward that you have never seen God - you have never seen Jesus.


Frank - think of this. If Jesus truly is worthy of this worship, then you're holding this back from Him, and you are *not* honoring Jesus as you honor the Father. Here's the difference - your mother and father never asked you to follow them to death, have they? Are your father and mother going to be worshiped on the same level as the Father? No! None of us will.


But Jesus will (Revelation 5). So you might as well worship Him as you worship the Father now Frank.
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I never said that my father and mother were to be "worshiped" on the same level as Yahweh our Heavenly Father and Creator. I also never said "Jesus is not worthy of just as much worship as the Father." and as you know I never said this and certainly never meant this.

Word Studies On Worship
(shachah, latreuo, and proskuneo)
 
Seriously people!! The Jews knew Jesus claimed to be God, as independently recorded by many included the well known and respected historian Josephus. If Jesus claimed to be God and is not God then he lied and then the bible is a lie and you are all not saved. Do not let this lie of Satan prevail, he wants you to deny your own salvation. Jesus is God as he claimed and as the bible teaches, this is not a new false teaching but an old one that John and Paul directly fought against.

We need to take what the bible teaches as truth, not reject it because we cannot understand how it works, as that is human pride to think we can fully understand God.
 
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Frank4YAHWEH said:
Yahweh said, not I. The following is from the creation accounts recorded in Genesis 1:26 - 5:5:

Mankind (Adam and Eve) Were Made Or Created In The Image or Likeness of Yahweh And The Malakim ["Angels"]

And Yahweh said, Let US make Man in OUR IMAGE, after OUR LIKENESS: and let THEM ... So Yahweh created Man in His Own IMAGE, in the IMAGE of Yahweh created He THEM; MALE AND FEMALE created He THEM. ...

And Yahweh Almighty formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. And Yahweh Almighty planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there He put the man whom He had formed. ... And Yahweh Almighty took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to work it and to keep it. And Yahweh Almighty said, It is not right that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him. And Yahweh Almighty caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up its place with flesh; And from the rib, which Yahweh Almighty had taken from man, made He a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

This is the book of the generations of Adam. At the time that Yahweh created Man, in the LIKENESS of Yahweh made He THEM; MALE AND FEMALE created He THEM; and blessed THEM, an


d CALL THEIR NAME ADAM, at the time when THEY were created. And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in THEIR own likeness, after THEIR image; and called his name Seth: And the time of Adam after THEY had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and THEY begat sons and daughters: Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then THEY died.
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God created the angels he did not say in his image n the angels he made man he would've said in my image and the heavenly host I make man but he didn't. Saying God made us in the image of him n angels is saying God is equal to angels that their the same n thats not true God is better than the angels they worship him n we worship him he does not worship us.
 
zackabba said:
Frank - where in the Bible does it say the angels created with God?
Click to expand...

I never said "the angels created with God". I had previously made it known that Scripture clearly teaches that FATHER Yahweh "ALONE", "BY HIMSELF" created and that there was "NO ONE BESIDE HIM" when He created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. Scripture clearly teaches that the malakim ["angels"] were in existence before Yahweh created mankind.

Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if you have understanding. Who has laid the measures thereof, if you know, or who has stretched the line on it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; ...

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of Yahweh shouted for joy? (Job 38:4-7).

Note the "Parallel Commentaries" to this last verse at the bottom of the following link:
Job 38:7 while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?

The Bible says in Exodus 20:11 that God made everything in six days, heaven and earth and everything in them. The angels had to be made during the first six days, although the Bible doesn’t state when. Several references seem to say that the angels rejoiced when the earth’s foundations were laid, so they must have been created early in the week (Job 38:4-7). This passage may be referring to the angels watching the dry land appear on day three in the original creation or it may be they were watching the establishing of the earth’s new continental levels after the Flood. It cannot be known for sure."
SOURCE
 
theBibleisawsome said:
God created the angels he did not say in his image n the angels he made man he would've said in my image and the heavenly host I make man but he didn't. Saying God made us in the image of him n angels is saying God is equal to angels that their the same n thats not true God is better than the angels they worship him n we worship him he does not worship us.
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I can not even understand your response. You must not be able to communicate in English very well. It seems you are trying to say that I was saying that the malakim ["angels"] are better than Yahweh in your saying:

"thats not true God is better than the angels"

I never even suggested such foolishness!
 
CanadaNZ said:
Seriously people!! The Jews knew Jesus claimed to be God, as independently recorded by many included the well known and respected historian Josephus. If Jesus claimed to be God and is not God then he lied and then the bible is a lie and you are all not saved. Do not let this lie of Satan prevail, he wants you to deny your own salvation. Jesus is God as he claimed and as the bible teaches, this is not a new false teaching but an old one that John and Paul directly fought against.

We need to take what the bible teaches as truth, not reject it because we cannot understand how it works, as that is human pride to think we can fully understand God.
Click to expand...


Actually, the Sanhedrin (Jewish leaders) falsely accused Yahshua of making himself out to be "God" just as they had also falsely accused him of breaking the Sabbath. They were constantly out to entrap Yahshua in his words. Yahshua is never once recorded in the so-called "New Testament" as proclaiming to be "God" and he certainly is never recorded in this section of Scripture as proclaiming that he was "God" to the Sanhedrin (Jewish leaders). He only proclaimed to be the SON of FATHER Yahweh and we are asked in Scripture to believe and confess that he is the Messiah the SON of Yahweh, and never are we ever asked in Scripture to believe and confess "Jesus IS God!".

Did Yahshua Create Or Pr-exist His Birth?

"Jesus IS God!"?
 
CanadaNZ said:
Seriously people!! The Jews knew Jesus claimed to be God, as independently recorded by many included the well known and respected historian Josephus. If Jesus claimed to be God and is not God then he lied and then the bible is a lie and you are all not saved. Do not let this lie of Satan prevail, he wants you to deny your own salvation. Jesus is God as he claimed and as the bible teaches, this is not a new false teaching but an old one that John and Paul directly fought against.

We need to take what the bible teaches as truth, not reject it because we cannot understand how it works, as that is human pride to think we can fully understand God.
Click to expand...

Seriously people!! Are we to take the side of the Sanhedrin (Jewish leaders) in their falsely accusing him of making himself out to be "God", breaking the Sabbath and who were constantly out to entrap him in his words or are we to take Yahshua's side in his proclaiming to be the SON of Yahweh? I myself choose to take Yahshua's side in his proclaiming to be the SON of Yahweh over the side of the Sanhedrin (Jewish leaders) who falsely accused him of making himself out to be "God", breaking the Sabbath and who were constantly out to entrap him in his words.
 
Frank4YAHWEH said:
I never said "the angels created with God". I had previously made it known that Scripture clearly teaches that FATHER Yahweh "ALONE", "BY HIMSELF" created and that there was "NO ONE BESIDE HIM" when He created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. Scripture clearly teaches that the malakim ["angels"] were in existence before Yahweh created mankind.

Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if you have understanding. Who has laid the measures thereof, if you know, or who has stretched the line on it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; ...

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of Yahweh shouted for joy? (Job 38:4-7).

Note the "Parallel Commentaries" to this last verse at the bottom of the following link:
Job 38:7 while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?

The Bible says in Exodus 20:11 that God made everything in six days, heaven and earth and everything in them. The angels had to be made during the first six days, although the Bible doesn’t state when. Several references seem to say that the angels rejoiced when the earth’s foundations were laid, so they must have been created early in the week (Job 38:4-7). This passage may be referring to the angels watching the dry land appear on day three in the original creation or it may be they were watching the establishing of the earth’s new continental levels after the Flood. It cannot be known for sure."
SOURCE
Click to expand...

Frank - you just did a few minutes ago.

"Let US MAKE man in OUR image."

You believe this is talking about the angels and God. So, God is asking them to make man in their image - both God's and their's.


This is what you're saying if you believe Genesis 1:26 to mean that.
 
Frank4YAHWEH said:
I never said that my father and mother were to be "worshiped" on the same level as Yahweh our Heavenly Father and Creator. I also never said "Jesus is not worthy of just as much worship as the Father." and as you know I never said this and certainly never meant this.

Word Studies On Worship
(shachah, latreuo, and proskuneo)
Click to expand...

No, you did - even on your web sites you claim that Jesus is not worthy of as much worship as God the Father - I'm talking qualitatively.

You say that if we worship Jesus as we worship God, we make Him into an idol - at least you're consistent with your errors.

Frank, I would seriously consider praying about this. Pray that God would show you that Jesus certainly *is* worth as much glory as God, and *is* to be worshiped as God (Revelation 4-5).
 
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