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jesus is not God
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pentecostal
Guest
have you read john 1:3 ... without jesus nothing would have been made ok. understand that it is plain english . or do you not understand that either.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.
This will be the third time I have posted this same information but nobody wants to comment. Some people here seem to not want to take the word of the writngs of Paul so, again, this is straight out of the gospel of John where Jesus Himself says He is God, end of story, Jesus is God, always has been
God, and always will be God.
In John 8 Jesus told the Jewish leaders, before Abraham was, I Am. in reference to the fact that God had tolld Moses to tell the people I Am sent you, in Exodus 3.
So Jesus Christ Himself said He is God and they took up stones to kill Him for saying He is God.
John 8:58-59
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Exodus 3:13-14
13 Then Moses said to God, “Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His name?’ what shall I say to them?”
14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
God, and always will be God.
In John 8 Jesus told the Jewish leaders, before Abraham was, I Am. in reference to the fact that God had tolld Moses to tell the people I Am sent you, in Exodus 3.
So Jesus Christ Himself said He is God and they took up stones to kill Him for saying He is God.
John 8:58-59
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Exodus 3:13-14
13 Then Moses said to God, “Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His name?’ what shall I say to them?”
14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
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zackabba
Guest
No one is responding because they know they'll have to beat around the bush to deny what it's truly saying (and most of us don't have time for that, you know...
Grace and Love
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zackabba
Guest
This is what happens in most cases:
Deny the divinity of Jesus -----> (approximately a few months later) deny that there's a hell ----> deny that Scripture is inerrant.
Again, not in all cases, but many.
Deny the divinity of Jesus -----> (approximately a few months later) deny that there's a hell ----> deny that Scripture is inerrant.
Again, not in all cases, but many.
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zackabba
Guest
Now now, we must remember - Jesus was in the *mind* of God, you see. When He says that He existed before Abraham...He means He existed in God's *mind.* Is this not clear to you?
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theBibleisawsome
Guest
Many people have different beliefs but the fact of the matter is the Bible says there is only one God and when u really read the Scriptures it tells us Jesus is God. I doesn't say that in the exact words thats people's only defense but when u read the Scriptures it's telling us Jesus is God
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A-Omega
Guest
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
No one is responding because they know they'll have to beat around the bush to deny what it's truly saying (and most of us don't have time for that, you know...
Grace and Love
The thing is people quote all kinds of passages that show that Jesus is God but most of them aren't the one where Jesus is saying it Himself but even when they do post His words from John 8 where He says He is 'I Am', they don't show the conneection to Exodus 3 where God is calling Himself 'I Am'.
A lot of people don't get it unless it is staring them right in the face but even then sometimes they don't get it.
It amazes me that even people who are very intelligent sometimes do seem to be blinded to the truth. So this does show that without the wisdom of the Holy Spirit that they truly are spiritually blinded.
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zackabba
Guest
This is true.
The reason why you see so many Unitarians now is, simply put, because of the Enlightenment. There were definitely people in the early church that denied the deity of Christ, but overall His deity was not what was disputed - it was his *humanity* that was disputed (which seems ridiculous, doesn't it?).
Michael Servetus was very influential as well, but it is said that He may have been a modalist - I don't know.
All I know is that all I have is Christ, and He is my Lord and My God, to the glory of God the Father in the Spirit.
Grace and Love
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zackabba
Guest
The name is Yahweh (as the HCSB web site says
). ...oh, and don't tell anyone that God is never called YHWH in the New Testament. He certainly still is YHWH, and always will be, and always has been, but calling on the name of the Lord means, simply what it says - call on the name of the Lord, and you will be saved (Romans 10). This alludes to Joel 2:32, which says "call on the name of YHWH," but you're calling on the same name either way when you call on the Messiah for salvation.
(I know it's a long post, but this seems to be what many are saying today - that if you don't literally say "YHWH save me!" that you won't be saved, which is unfounded.)
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pentecostal
Guest
Now now, we must remember - Jesus was in the *mind* of God, you see. When He says that He existed before Abraham...He means He existed in God's *mind.* Is this not clear to you?
there is one thing you need to understand. jesus was not in the mind of God ( in the plans of God).
it was the son that was in the mind of God
in the beginning was the word (which is the plan) and the word was with God and the word was God, the was his onw plan, and you can see this plan being fulfilled in john 1:14 where it says that the word became flesh (the plan became flesh.
that was the plan of God that he was Going to be manifest in the flesh and be alongside his creation and die for his creation( the son dying).
not jesus is Gods plan or mind but the son (meaning Gods humanity "the flesh abide in when he was on earth.
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pentecostal
Guest
The name is Yahweh (as the HCSB web site says
...oh, and don't tell anyone that God is never called YHWH in the New Testament. He certainly still is YHWH, and always will be, and always has been, but calling on the name of the Lord means, simply what it says - call on the name of the Lord, and you will be saved (Romans 10). This alludes to Joel 2:32, which says "call on the name of YHWH," but you're calling on the same name either way when you call on the Messiah for salvation.
(I know it's a long post, but this seems to be what many are saying today - that if you don't literally say "YHWH save me!" that you won't be saved, which is unfounded.)
you will be save if you call on the name of the lord. LORD IS NOT A it is a title . who is the lord? in the bible it says Jesus is the lord. now if you call on the name of the lord (which is Jesus then you will be saved, thats what romans is saying.
In the OT God declared that His name was YHWH (Exodus 6:3; 20:7; see also 3:14). Scholars believe that "YHWH," or "Yahweh" is the third person singular form of the ancient Hebrew verb, "haya," meaning "to be." The basic thrust of this verb describes the state of existence. As the third person form of haya, Yahweh literally means "He is," or "He exists." It is a description of who God is. He is the self-existing one.
To understand the import of this we must understand the nature of Hebrew names. Hebrew names are not simply nominal devices used to identify one person from another as they are in the English language; they are actually sentences in themselves. It is similar to how the Indians named their children "rising sun" or "running bear." These were not quite complete sentences, but they were descriptions (partial sentences). God's name, YHWH, is a full sentence. It just so happens to be the shortest sentence in any language--"I am."1
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pentecostal
Guest
The name is Yahweh (as the HCSB web site says
...oh, and don't tell anyone that God is never called YHWH in the New Testament. He certainly still is YHWH, and always will be, and always has been, but calling on the name of the Lord means, simply what it says - call on the name of the Lord, and you will be saved (Romans 10). This alludes to Joel 2:32, which says "call on the name of YHWH," but you're calling on the same name either way when you call on the Messiah for salvation.
(I know it's a long post, but this seems to be what many are saying today - that if you don't literally say "YHWH save me!" that you won't be saved, which is unfounded.)
Many Oneness believers will contend that God's name is not YHWH, but Jesus. While I do not disagree that Jesus is God's name, the problem with such a statement is rooted in the fact that it sets up a false dichotomy between "YHWH" and "Jesus," forcing us to decide between the two. No choice needs to be made because in actuality they are both the same name, but with one of the names being an expanded form of the other, describing what God does. It could be said that God's name is Jesus only because His name is YHWH. While that may sound contradictory at first, let me explain.
In Hebrew Jesus' name is spelled as "Yeshua." The "Ye" in Yeshua is the abbreviated form of YHWH. "Shua" is from the Hebrew word for salvation, yasha. Jesus' name literally means "YHWH is salvation." The name "Jesus," then, actually contains the name "YHWH" in abbreviated form. While YHWH simply describes who God is, when it is combined with a verb it describes what God does. The name "Jesus" describes the fact that YHWH has become salvation. Who is Christ? He is YHWH, saving His people from their sins. If YHWH is not God's name, then Jesus' name becomes meaningless. To deny that God's name is YHWH is to ultimately deny the name of Jesus.
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pentecostal
Guest
The name is Yahweh (as the HCSB web site says
...oh, and don't tell anyone that God is never called YHWH in the New Testament. He certainly still is YHWH, and always will be, and always has been, but calling on the name of the Lord means, simply what it says - call on the name of the Lord, and you will be saved (Romans 10). This alludes to Joel 2:32, which says "call on the name of YHWH," but you're calling on the same name either way when you call on the Messiah for salvation.
(I know it's a long post, but this seems to be what many are saying today - that if you don't literally say "YHWH save me!" that you won't be saved, which is unfounded.)
We should pick up on the fact that God is never referred to as "Yeshua" (Jesus) in the OT. He is always referred to as YHWH. If God's name has always been Jesus (as some claim) it would seem strange that He never referred to Himself as such, nor was He ever called that until the NT. It might be counter-argued that while God was called YHWH in the OT, He is never called by such in the NT.
But is God called YHWH in the NT? Yes, in its expanded form as "Jesus," meaning "YHWH is salvation." The name "Jesus," found exclusively in the NT, is a continuation of the revealed name of God found throughout the OT. "Jesus" is not a new name. The name of Jesus encompasses the fullness of God's revelation of Himself to man--as Savior.
The name "Jesus" is so important to us because it is an expanded form of the same divine name revealed in the OT. It is not a different name. It is only greater in that it more fully expresses who God is to us--Savior. Truly God's name is Jesus, because God's name is YHWH. We confess that God's name is YHWH every time we confess Him as Jesus.
The "flesh" was Yahshua ["Jesus"]. The "word' is Yahweh ["God"], not "Jesus" as is clearly revealed in verse 1 and 14. NOWHERE in Scripture does it EVER SAY "Jesus IS God!".
Did Yahshua Create Or Pr-exist His Birth?
"Jesus IS God!"?
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So when God was made flesh and dwelt among us by what name do we call Him?
I call Him Jesus.
The bible says it was Jesus that was born of a virgin.
The bible says it was Jesus that the people called Emmanuel.
Isaiah 9 and John 1 are abundantly clear who Jesus is.
As well as Jesus Himself. Before Abraham was, I AM.
Yes, I honor the SON just as a honor the FATHER. I also honor my father and mother just as I honor FATHER Yahweh. Asking one to honor someone just as you would honor someone else is not asking one to believe that they are "one and the same being".
As for "worship", Yahshua is most certainly worthy of "worship", but certainly not as his and our FATHER Yahweh!
Word Studies On Worship
(shachah, latreuo, and proskuneo)
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pentecostal
Guest
wait i dont understand if you dont believe that jesus is God. and you say that the word is yahweh then how is
yahweh with yahweh (the word was with God).
I do not believe "God was made flesh", but that FATHER Yahweh's SON was MADE flesh.
Does Isayah 9:6 Proclaim Yahshua To Be Yahweh?
What Did Yahshua Mean When He Said "Before Abraham Was, I Am."?