Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

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Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
1,304
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Everybody is caught up to meet Jesus in a cloud. One event. One Pre-Trib Rapture. It is also called the First Resurrection because most of them will have died.
Yes, and the tagline First Resurrection simply is speaking about those raised in Christ both Pre Trib. AND those in Revelation 20:4 we refused the Mark of the Beast and became Martyrs, they get Judged at tat time so they are a part of the First Resurrection also. People can UNDESTAND {LOL} that Game 1 of a 7 game playoff can have 4 quarters, but God can't have 2 Resurrections where one can have different timings that happen at different times.

God calls them 1 and 2 but that doesn't mean that number 1 can't happen over a period of 7 years, the 1 Refers to the Righteous in God and God will raise up the Church pre rapture, then raise up the Jews AND the 70th week Martyrs at the Second Coming, Daniel was told he would stand in his lot at the very end.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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There is only one Rapture, and it is Pre-Trib. It is a comforting fact...

1 Thess
4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
What verse say before great tribulation?
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
What verse say before great tribulation?
Read Rev 19.

Raptured saints experience many wonderful things in Heaven as they prepare to return back down to Earth with Jesus at His Second Coming. That puts the Rapture before the Trib. Comfort yourself with the fact that we anticipate a wedding feast, not seven years of tribulation.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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Read Rev 19.

Raptured saints experience many wonderful things in Heaven as they prepare to return back down to Earth with Jesus at His Second Coming. That puts the Rapture before the Trib. Comfort yourself with the fact that we anticipate a wedding feast, not seven years of tribulation.
What part of rev 19 say rapture before got?
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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Read Rev 19.

Raptured saints experience many wonderful things in Heaven as they prepare to return back down to Earth with Jesus at His Second Coming. That puts the Rapture before the Trib. Comfort yourself with the fact that we anticipate a wedding feast, not seven years of tribulation.
What I see in 1 Thessalonians 4 is that God brings with Jesus those who had previously died, the dead in Christ, to be resurrected. Then those who remain will be caught up in the air together.

In English, when we speak of those who remain, we’re talking about a remnant or group of people who have survived something.

Given the context of the passages in 1 Thessalonians 4, it’s referring to those who have survived the great tribulation. They are those who are “alive and remain.”

Jesus confirms this in Matthew 24:21-22

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The tribulation will be shortened so that people will survive. If no one survives then it wouldn’t be possible for Jesus to return to gather His elect in verses 29-31.

Those who are alive and remain in 1 Thessalonians 4 are the survivors of the great tribulation.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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What I see in 1 Thessalonians 4 is that God brings with Jesus those who had previously died, the dead in Christ, to be resurrected. Then those who remain will be caught up in the air together.

In English, when we speak of those who remain, we’re talking about a remnant or group of people who have survived something.

Given the context of the passages in 1 Thessalonians 4, it’s referring to those who have survived the great tribulation. They are those who are “alive and remain.”

Jesus confirms this in Matthew 24:21-22

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The tribulation will be shortened so that people will survive. If no one survives then it wouldn’t be possible for Jesus to return to gather His elect in verses 29-31.

Those who are alive and remain in 1 Thessalonians 4 are the survivors of the great tribulation.
A few things to factor in.
The ac kills all refusing the mark
Rev 14:14 has a gathering DURING the gt.
All rapture verses are peacetime and normal life.
So no there is no " survival saints" dynamic after the gt.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
A few things to factor in.
The ac kills all refusing the mark
Rev 14:14 has a gathering DURING the gt.
All rapture verses are peacetime and normal life.
So no there is no " survival saints" dynamic after the gt.
You say ac kill refusing the mark
Refusing the mark is believer
That mean some believer still on earth, not rapture yet
 

iTheophilus

Well-known member
Oct 28, 2021
436
471
63
A few things to factor in.
The ac kills all refusing the mark
Rev 14:14 has a gathering DURING the gt.
All rapture verses are peacetime and normal life.
So no there is no " survival saints" dynamic after the gt.
I’m wondering, as Jackson is, who those who refuse the mark of the beast are. I know who they are; do you @Absolutely?
 

Friend

Active member
Dec 7, 2021
183
67
28
!!!!THE SECRET RAPTURE!!!!

It's was only a secret when the body of Christ was lacking some of the Hidden Manna.

Rev 2:17b To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna.

Two of the Seven Promises

Rev 3:21 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, just as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Rec 3:22 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'"​

("After These Things")

Rev 4:1-2 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.” Rev 4:2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and One sitting on the throne.

If one is concerned about Chronological order then we see/hear !!!!"After these things"!!!! five more times (for a total of seven times) and "After This" Once, before the Church is ever mentioned again (nineteen chapters later)

John is the observer of everything that happen (firstly in the throne room) where shortly after his arrival there, and Immediately after a reception of Lighting and Thunder Seven Lamps of fire appear in front of the throne.

Rev 4:5 Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were (((seven lamps of fire))) burning before the throne, ((((which are the seven Spirits of God.))))

And what follows is where the seven lamps of fire came from, and Jesus states what they are.
Rev 1:12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and girded across His chest with a golden sash.
Rev 2:1a-b “To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands, says this

Rev 1:19 "Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place "after these things". 20 (((("As for the mystery)))) of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and (((((the seven lampstands are the seven churches.)))))

Rev 5:6 And I saw in the middle of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the middle of the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, ((((which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth)))).

(((And now remembering again the great promise)))

Rev 3:21 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, just as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. 22 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'"


 

Friend

Active member
Dec 7, 2021
183
67
28
The Seven Spirits of God are first acknowledged after John came (back from the future) to deliver what he had written to seven letters to the churches in Asia. John Gives the blessing from those in heaven.

Rev 1:4-5 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, (from) Him who is and who was and who is to come, and (from) the seven Spirits who are in front of His throne. 5 and (from) Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood—

When connecting all the sevens we are seeing the perfection of timing in that John arrives into the throne room immediately before the Lamb (with His completed Spirit Body) returns to be presented before God; In that those in heaven first descend (to receive in the clouds) those who remain alive on earth; then immediately returning to the throne room.

Dan 7:13 "I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, and He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him.
1Th 4:16 The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice like the an archangel, and with the trumpet of God; the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

1Th 5:9 Because God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining deliverance through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Th 1:10 to wait for His Son *(out from/G1537)* heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.​

*G1537* ἐκ ek, ek; a primary preposition denoting origin (the point when action or motion proceeds)

And a few more examples of ek/s proper usage.

Rev 4:5 Out from/G1537 the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God

Rev 16:17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl upon the air, and a loud voice came out from/G1537 the temple from/G575 the throne, saying, "It is done."

Note G575/s proper use in that it denotes only (where) excluding motion/action.

Luk 17:22 And He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.

Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His comings

So it's not without aim and extensive examination that we come to these conclusions.

Rom 1:18 the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.​

An Empire was torn by war, and even every kind of plague, and yet a woman stakes claims of having originated from there. Other than many dispersions that occurred throughout the empire’s demise, there is no evidence (like scores of original documents) that would be proof of meticulous devotion to the truth; but only the opposite is true. What remained of the Roman congregation was ravaged, and replaced with the completely imposter church. If there were even a few righteous people remaining in the Roman Empire, it would have survived intact to this day. It was the woman’s destiny to survive the demise of her many beasts/empires. What went out of Rome (even its legacy) was the final makeover of Babylonian religion; the false prophets of the harlot, riding the backs’ of the sea beasts; ruthless profiteers taking her plague out to all humanity; just as the Revelations prophecy.

It was only when Protestants published a complete bible that the Harlot prepared her own. Otherwise we might well have been waiting until now before we could decipher all these things. The Harlot (with the Sword) has taken her testimony out in to all the nations, with the whole world broken up into her own states/diocese; the clay molded within the iron of Her beasts who conquer. So it's safe to say that she's taken (her testimony) out to all the nations, but the end did not come.

Mat 24:14 “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.​
 

Friend

Active member
Dec 7, 2021
183
67
28
What part of rev 19 say rapture before got?
Well said: Even the Law states that a groom is not to take a bride in the midst of war. The marriage takes place after all sin has been eradicated forever. The marriage takes place after the enemy has been made to be his footstool...
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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Well said: Even the Law states that a groom is not to take a bride in the midst of war. The marriage takes place after all sin has been eradicated forever. The marriage takes place after the enemy has been made to be his footstool...
Not in the midst of war mean after tribulation
 

Friend

Active member
Dec 7, 2021
183
67
28
Not in the midst of war mean after tribulation
Hello Jackson: not sure is you saw all of this:

!!!!THE SECRET RAPTURE!!!!

It's was only a secret when the body of Christ was lacking some of the Hidden Manna.​

Rev 2:17b To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna.​

Two of the Seven Promises

Rev 3:21 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, just as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Rev 3:22 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'"​

("After These Things")

Rev 4:1-2 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.” Rev 4:2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and One sitting on the throne.​

If one is concerned about Chronological order then we see/hear !!!!"After these things"!!!! six more times (for a total of eight times) and the words "After This" Once, before the Church is ever mentioned again (nineteen chapters later)

John is the observer of everything that happen (firstly in the throne room) where shortly after his arrival there, and Immediately after a reception of Lighting and Thunder Seven Lamps of fire appear in front of the throne.​

Rev 4:5 Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were (((seven lamps of fire))) burning before the throne, ((((which are the seven Spirits of God.))))

And what follows is where the seven lamps of fire came from, and Jesus states what they are.

Rev 1:12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and girded across His chest with a golden sash.

Rev 2:1a-b “To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands, says this

Rev 1:19 "Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place "after these things". 20 (((("As for the mystery)))) of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and (((((the seven lampstands are the seven churches.)))))

Rev 5:6 And I saw in the middle of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the middle of the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, ((((which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth)))).

(((And now remembering again the great promise)))​

Rev 3:21 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, just as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. 22 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'"​

The Seven Spirits of God are first acknowledged after John came (back from the future) to deliver what he had written to seven letters to the churches in Asia. John Gives the blessing from those in heaven.​

Rev 1:4-5 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, (from) Him who is and who was and who is to come, and (from) the seven Spirits who are in front of His throne. 5 and (from) Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood​
 

Friend

Active member
Dec 7, 2021
183
67
28
Not in the midst of war mean after tribulation
Here is the rest of it Brother:

When connecting all the sevens we are seeing the perfection of timing in that John arrives into the throne room immediately before the Lamb (with His completed Spirit Body) returns to be presented before God; In that those in heaven first descend (to receive in the clouds) those who remain alive on earth; then immediately returning to the throne room.​

Dan 7:13 "I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, and He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him.​

1Th 4:16 The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice like the an archangel, and with the trumpet of God; the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

1Th 5:9 Because God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining deliverance through our Lord Jesus Christ.​

1Th 1:10 to wait for His Son *(out from/G1537)* heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.​

*G1537* ἐκ ek, ek; a primary preposition denoting origin (the point when action or motion proceeds)

And a few more examples of ek/s proper usage.​

Rev 4:5 Out from/G1537 the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God​

Rev 16:17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl upon the air, and a loud voice came out from/G1537 the temple from/G575 the throne, saying, "It is done."​

Note G575/s proper use in that it denotes only (where) excluding motion/action.​

Luk 17:22 And He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.

Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His comings

So it's not without aim and extensive examination that we come to these conclusions.​

Rom 1:18 the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.​

An Empire was torn by war, and even every kind of plague, and yet a woman stakes claims of having originated from there. Other than many dispersions that occurred throughout the empire’s demise, there is no evidence (like scores of original documents) that would be proof of meticulous devotion to the truth; but only the opposite is true. What remained of the Roman congregation was ravaged, and replaced with the completely imposter church. If there were even a few righteous people remaining in the Roman Empire, it would have survived intact to this day. It was the woman’s destiny to survive the demise of her many beasts/empires. What went out of Rome (even its legacy) was the final makeover of Babylonian religion; the false prophets of the harlot, riding the backs’ of the sea beasts; ruthless profiteers taking her plague out to all humanity; just as the Revelations prophecy.

It was only when Protestants published a complete bible that the Harlot prepared her own. Otherwise we might well have been waiting until now before we could decipher all these things. The Harlot (with the Sword) has taken her testimony out in to all the nations, with the whole world broken up into her own states/diocese; the clay molded within the iron of Her beasts who conquer. So it's safe to say that she's taken (her testimony) out to all the nations, but the end did not come.

Mat 24:14 “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.​
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
A few things to factor in.
The ac kills all refusing the mark
Rev 14:14 has a gathering DURING the gt.
All rapture verses are peacetime and normal life.
So no there is no " survival saints" dynamic after the gt.
Sorry, did you mean to reply to me? I don’t see how what you said addresses my post.
 

lamad

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2021
1,293
107
63
Well said: Even the Law states that a groom is not to take a bride in the midst of war. The marriage takes place after all sin has been eradicated forever. The marriage takes place after the enemy has been made to be his footstool...
Sorry, but this is myth. John is very clear on the timing of the marriage: in heaven and JUST before Jesus comes to Armageddon.