It's not an insult...

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L

lenna

Guest
#21
#21
KelbyofGod said:
Too many have much doctrine and words....but no power... and they fulfil the scripture regarding those who are "having a form of godliness, but denying the power".
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I believe, from living my life, that the power of the Holy Spirit is most of all to live for Christ.

But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” Acts 1:8

and of course I Corinthians 12

I am not denying the miraculous and could easily give evidence of such, but I don't go looking for it nor do I expect it.

I agree there is a form of godliness without the power to live for Him.
 
L

lenna

Guest
#23
#23
it is a mistake, often heard or read, to interpret what people say about being 'filled' with the Holy Spirit as saying you are not saved until you are, or saying you do not have the Holy Spirit until you are (filled)

you would not be saved if you did not have the Holy Spirit


in whom *ye* also [have trusted], having heard the word of the truth, the glad tidings of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, ye have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:13

what people are saying or trying to point out, is the same as this:

1While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the interior and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?”

“No,” they answered, “we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

3“Into what, then, were you baptized?” Paul asked.

“The baptism of John,” they replied.

4Paul explained: “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the One coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”

5On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. (water) 6And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. (Holy Spirit which is where people get the term baptism in the Holy Spirit)7There were about twelve men in all. Acts 19


not going to argue or debate the thing. but there it is. in black and white

so we see first that people are sealed with the Holy Spirit when they believe but there is a second encounter after that
 
SoulWeaver

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
#26
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#26
lenna said:
I disagree

and why wouldn't the Holy Spirit move on people's hearts? sure motives are a factor, but I know that God has not changed

evident power of God? I don't need evidence of some kind of power. I believe scripture. period.

perhaps that is a problem if people expect some kind of 'evidence'. we are responsible for our own hearts turned to God. He is always there and always answers

I mean no offence, but people on the internet can pray too and seek God.
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I think you mistook what I intended to say Sis... and also, I am giving answer as to what people are like, not how it ideally should be...
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#27
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,773
113
#27
KelbyofGod said:
Satan tries really hard to make it sound like an insult rather than an exhortation when someone is advised that they still need to receive the Holy Ghost. ESPECIALLY if that person has faith.
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The one who has genuine saving faith will receive the GIFT of the Holy Spirit at the moment he or she is saved (Acts 2:38). And those who are saved do not need to receive the Holy Spirit again, since He comes to indwell the believer permanently.

It looks like you are manufacturing your own theology (no doubt under the influence of false teachers). You have a history of quirky ideas.
 
D

DWR

Guest
#29
#29
KelbyofGod said:
This message is for ALL,

Satan tries really hard to make it sound like an insult rather than an exhortation when someone is advised that they still need to receive the Holy Ghost. ESPECIALLY if that person has faith.

It can be clearly stated that Peter, James and John were even made APOSTLES before they received the Holy Ghost! John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
  • Are we INSULTING them by saying they still needed to receive the Holy Ghost? Absolutely not.
  • Are we claiming they don't have faith in God? No, it's quite easy to see that they believed and trusted God and Jesus.
  • Are we saying the promise of the Holy Ghost isn't for them? Again, Absolutely not.
  • We are just saying that people need to seek until they find, knock until it is opened, ask until they receive...and not give up along the way. We are encouraging them to CONTINUE until they receive all that God has PROMISED them...(including a place in heaven).
  • We see people all over who have heard of Jesus or have a bible or have learned how to pray and recieve things (which means they have FAITH) and yet haven't even heard that they need to receive the Holy Ghost. Paul ran into a group like that in Acts 19. The bible calls them disciples. Paul acknowledged their belief. Yet they hadn't been told that they needed the Holy Ghost. They were thankfully able to receive this without taking offense...internalized the additional truth...were baptized to get it right...and eventually (not immediately) ACTUALLY RECEIVED the Holy Ghost, which didn't ACTUALLY HAPPEN until Paul laid his hands on them. That is a beautiful account because they could have taken offense instead (as Satan works hard to make happen today).
To say that someone still needs to receive the Holy Ghost isn't an insult. It's a statement that we understand that God has more for them and we're believing that they are worthy to receive it... if they TARRY until they are endued with power "For ye shall receive POWER after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you". and "For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in POWER".

Too many have much doctrine and words....but no power... and they fulfil the scripture regarding those who are "having a form of godliness, but denying the power".

If you know you have faith, and you know you believe in Jesus, and you know you love God, but also know you don't really have much power, and especially if you know that you've never "spake with new tongues as the spirit gave them utterance"...you probably need to seek God until he baptizes you with the same Holy Ghost that he gave on the day of Pentecost and promised "unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call".

As I've said to others I now say to ALL... I wish you well on your journey.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Click to expand...
To say one needs the receive the Holy Spirit is judging a person's relationship with God.

This is just another attempt on your part to push your false doctrine that speaking in tongues as proof of salvation.
Why not be honest and admit it?
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#30
#30
I'm not a cessationist, but Pentecostalism seriously misunderstand/ misrepresent the gifts of the Holy Spirit. This post feels like the Pentecostal heterodoxy.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#31
May 23, 2012
13,013
4,314
113
#31
KelbyofGod said:
This message is for ALL,

Satan tries really hard to make it sound like an insult rather than an exhortation when someone is advised that they still need to receive the Holy Ghost. ESPECIALLY if that person has faith.

It can be clearly stated that Peter, James and John were even made APOSTLES before they received the Holy Ghost! John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
  • Are we INSULTING them by saying they still needed to receive the Holy Ghost? Absolutely not.
  • Are we claiming they don't have faith in God? No, it's quite easy to see that they believed and trusted God and Jesus.
  • Are we saying the promise of the Holy Ghost isn't for them? Again, Absolutely not.
  • We are just saying that people need to seek until they find, knock until it is opened, ask until they receive...and not give up along the way. We are encouraging them to CONTINUE until they receive all that God has PROMISED them...(including a place in heaven).
  • We see people all over who have heard of Jesus or have a bible or have learned how to pray and recieve things (which means they have FAITH) and yet haven't even heard that they need to receive the Holy Ghost. Paul ran into a group like that in Acts 19. The bible calls them disciples. Paul acknowledged their belief. Yet they hadn't been told that they needed the Holy Ghost. They were thankfully able to receive this without taking offense...internalized the additional truth...were baptized to get it right...and eventually (not immediately) ACTUALLY RECEIVED the Holy Ghost, which didn't ACTUALLY HAPPEN until Paul laid his hands on them. That is a beautiful account because they could have taken offense instead (as Satan works hard to make happen today).
To say that someone still needs to receive the Holy Ghost isn't an insult. It's a statement that we understand that God has more for them and we're believing that they are worthy to receive it... if they TARRY until they are endued with power "For ye shall receive POWER after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you". and "For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in POWER".

Too many have much doctrine and words....but no power... and they fulfil the scripture regarding those who are "having a form of godliness, but denying the power".

If you know you have faith, and you know you believe in Jesus, and you know you love God, but also know you don't really have much power, and especially if you know that you've never "spake with new tongues as the spirit gave them utterance"...you probably need to seek God until he baptizes you with the same Holy Ghost that he gave on the day of Pentecost and promised "unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call".

As I've said to others I now say to ALL... I wish you well on your journey.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Click to expand...
Very well written,

I think it is not what only one thinks you did not say, but also what is not being said because of trigger terms.
Receiving the Holy Spirit as a resident in the believer for salvation happens to all who call on the name of the Lord and place faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. John 3:16-19 Roman 10: 9-13

The Empowering of the Holy Spirit also known as the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is what we receive from Jesus according to John chapter 1: 33. In John 20: 21-22 They received the Holy Spirit when Jesus breathed on them. it is not until Jesus says in Acts 1:8 that they will "receive power After the Holy Spirit comes upon you". Jesus in John chapter 20 and Acts 1:8 has already risen from the dead.

Jesus did not say in Acts 1:8 "in you", but the language used here is the same we see in the Old Testament When the Spirit of the Living God came upon Prophets, kings, rulers, judges, and priests. Many do not understand the guiding of the Holy Spirit from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which bare witness to you and the world you are saved. The empowering of the Holy Spirit in the believer bare witness to the Resurrected Lord. " You shall receive power to be a witness". No act of healing was not done in the name of a dead Jesus, but the one who rose from the dead and is alive. What are we witnessing to? The death burial AND Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is clearly seen in Acts 4:33

"And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. "
 
Subhumanoidal

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
#32
Sep 17, 2018
4,058
3,172
113
#32
lenna said:
I would say that for most people who understand Kelby's post no insult is intended

intent is not irrelevant. not to God anyway

I can look at your intent in your post above.
Click to expand...
I never said her post was insulting. I said that more often than not the things she is saying are not insults are used as insults.

I'd love for you to show me where I said intent was irrelevant.
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#33
Feb 24, 2009
3,230
1,126
113
New Zealand
#33
KelbyofGod said:
This message is for ALL,

Satan tries really hard to make it sound like an insult rather than an exhortation when someone is advised that they still need to receive the Holy Ghost. ESPECIALLY if that person has faith.

It can be clearly stated that Peter, James and John were even made APOSTLES before they received the Holy Ghost! John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
  • Are we INSULTING them by saying they still needed to receive the Holy Ghost? Absolutely not.
  • Are we claiming they don't have faith in God? No, it's quite easy to see that they believed and trusted God and Jesus.
  • Are we saying the promise of the Holy Ghost isn't for them? Again, Absolutely not.
  • We are just saying that people need to seek until they find, knock until it is opened, ask until they receive...and not give up along the way. We are encouraging them to CONTINUE until they receive all that God has PROMISED them...(including a place in heaven).
  • We see people all over who have heard of Jesus or have a bible or have learned how to pray and recieve things (which means they have FAITH) and yet haven't even heard that they need to receive the Holy Ghost. Paul ran into a group like that in Acts 19. The bible calls them disciples. Paul acknowledged their belief. Yet they hadn't been told that they needed the Holy Ghost. They were thankfully able to receive this without taking offense...internalized the additional truth...were baptized to get it right...and eventually (not immediately) ACTUALLY RECEIVED the Holy Ghost, which didn't ACTUALLY HAPPEN until Paul laid his hands on them. That is a beautiful account because they could have taken offense instead (as Satan works hard to make happen today).
To say that someone still needs to receive the Holy Ghost isn't an insult. It's a statement that we understand that God has more for them and we're believing that they are worthy to receive it... if they TARRY until they are endued with power "For ye shall receive POWER after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you". and "For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in POWER".

Too many have much doctrine and words....but no power... and they fulfil the scripture regarding those who are "having a form of godliness, but denying the power".

If you know you have faith, and you know you believe in Jesus, and you know you love God, but also know you don't really have much power, and especially if you know that you've never "spake with new tongues as the spirit gave them utterance"...you probably need to seek God until he baptizes you with the same Holy Ghost that he gave on the day of Pentecost and promised "unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call".

As I've said to others I now say to ALL... I wish you well on your journey.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Click to expand...
Hold up...'the Holy Spirit not yet being given' ...
Is this a reference to the way of salvation or the Holy Spirit's new work in His churches?

David believed in a Redeemer.. so did Job. Others in the Old Testament make references to types and shadows of Christ, before He was in the flesh.

Could the have been saved the same way as the NT, but with a different system of service?
 
L

lenna

Guest
#34
#34
SoulWeaver said:
I think you mistook what I intended to say Sis... and also, I am giving answer as to what people are like, not how it ideally should be...
Click to expand...
I gave an answer that was not based on what people are like because each one of us is lost without Jesus

we are transformed by the Holy Spirit

there is no ideal in this world
 
L

lenna

Guest
#35
#35
DWR said:
To say one needs the receive the Holy Spirit is judging a person's relationship with God.

This is just another attempt on your part to push your false doctrine that speaking in tongues as proof of salvation.
Why not be honest and admit it?
Click to expand...
it is not a false doctrine

Kelby is one of the most, if not THE most generous and kind person posting

you disagree. that's all

but why do you have to judge the person too? that is where the problem occurs
 
L

lenna

Guest
#36
#36
Blackpowderduelist said:
I'm not a cessationist, but Pentecostalism seriously misunderstand/ misrepresent the gifts of the Holy Spirit. This post feels like the Pentecostal heterodoxy.
Click to expand...

I'm neither Pentecostal or Charismatic and in fact my church background is very conservative. If I am not mistaken, but Kelby can clear it up, I think he was once opposed also...not sure

people make a mistake when they attribute speaking in tongues (cause lets face it...other gifts are desirable...like teaching etc) to those 2 groups only

in fact, big mistake
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#37
May 23, 2012
13,013
4,314
113
#37
DWR said:
To say one needs the receive the Holy Spirit is judging a person's relationship with God.

This is just another attempt on your part to push your false doctrine that speaking in tongues as proof of salvation.
Why not be honest and admit it?
Click to expand...
the wording is misunderstood everyone who receives Jesus as Lord and savior have the Holy Spirit in them as a resident. I am pentecostal and speaking in tongues IS NOT Proof you are saved. however, empowering of the Holy Spirit when "HE comes upon you" is a biblically different work of the Holy Spirit who is in you. The Word of God shows this throughout the Bible in both Old and New Testament.

The Spirit of the Lord came upon also known as the unction in the New Testament,

God was with David and the Spirit of the Lord came upon him. Samson the Spirit of the Lord came upon him, prophet Elijah the Spirit of the Lord came upon him. over and over this is seen. Why? to draw distinction that God was doing something that man could not do in himself, The power of God. This is seen in the New Testament greatly in the Book of Acts and the four gospels.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#38
#38
lenna said:
I'm neither Pentecostal or Charismatic and in fact my church background is very conservative. If I am not mistaken, but Kelby can clear it up, I think he was once opposed also...not sure

people make a mistake when they attribute speaking in tongues (cause lets face it...other gifts are desirable...like teaching etc) to those 2 groups only

in fact, big mistake
Click to expand...
What is your church affirmations? If ya don't mind me asking.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#39
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#39
KelbyofGod said:
This message is for ALL,

Satan tries really hard to make it sound like an insult rather than an exhortation when someone is advised that they still need to receive the Holy Ghost. ESPECIALLY if that person has faith.

It can be clearly stated that Peter, James and John were even made APOSTLES before they received the Holy Ghost! John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
  • Are we INSULTING them by saying they still needed to receive the Holy Ghost? Absolutely not.
  • Are we claiming they don't have faith in God? No, it's quite easy to see that they believed and trusted God and Jesus.
  • Are we saying the promise of the Holy Ghost isn't for them? Again, Absolutely not.
  • We are just saying that people need to seek until they find, knock until it is opened, ask until they receive...and not give up along the way. We are encouraging them to CONTINUE until they receive all that God has PROMISED them...(including a place in heaven).
  • We see people all over who have heard of Jesus or have a bible or have learned how to pray and recieve things (which means they have FAITH) and yet haven't even heard that they need to receive the Holy Ghost. Paul ran into a group like that in Acts 19. The bible calls them disciples. Paul acknowledged their belief. Yet they hadn't been told that they needed the Holy Ghost. They were thankfully able to receive this without taking offense...internalized the additional truth...were baptized to get it right...and eventually (not immediately) ACTUALLY RECEIVED the Holy Ghost, which didn't ACTUALLY HAPPEN until Paul laid his hands on them. That is a beautiful account because they could have taken offense instead (as Satan works hard to make happen today).
To say that someone still needs to receive the Holy Ghost isn't an insult. It's a statement that we understand that God has more for them and we're believing that they are worthy to receive it... if they TARRY until they are endued with power "For ye shall receive POWER after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you". and "For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in POWER".

Too many have much doctrine and words....but no power... and they fulfil the scripture regarding those who are "having a form of godliness, but denying the power".

If you know you have faith, and you know you believe in Jesus, and you know you love God, but also know you don't really have much power, and especially if you know that you've never "spake with new tongues as the spirit gave them utterance"...you probably need to seek God until he baptizes you with the same Holy Ghost that he gave on the day of Pentecost and promised "unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call".

As I've said to others I now say to ALL... I wish you well on your journey.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Click to expand...
All newly regenerated babes in Christ are born in the same manner from Adam to the last person that will be born into this world by their natural birth, which is by God's sovereign grace, without the help of mankind, when God puts his Holy Spirit within them. This is evidenced by Moses having been born again, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, in Isaiah 63:11.

The scriptures teach that the Godhead consists of three different functions, The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father as the creator, The Son as the Savior, and mediator, and The Holy Spirit as the quickening Spirit.

The Holy Spirit also has two different functions, The Holy Spirit as the quickening Spirit, and the Holy Ghost as the revelator. The Holy Ghost function comes only after Christ has been glorified.

The apostles, among many others, were born again (quickened) prior to Christ's glorification, and received the function of the Holy Ghost, as the revelator, after his glorification.

The Holy Ghost, as the revelator, teaches the new born babes in Christ, gradually, until they grow unto a knowledge of the gospel.

Isaiah 28:9-10, Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and there a little.
 
L

lenna

Guest
#40
#40
Blackpowderduelist said:
What is your church affirmations? If ya don't mind me asking.
Click to expand...
well I was brought up in a Brethern church...from 5 until 20

it was a great church but they did not teach on the thing on the gifts and the only time tongues was mentioned I thought it was something that came out of the jungle and 'ate yah'...ie darkest parts of Africa :eek:
 
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