It's not an insult...

[lenna]

Kelby does not have that authority.

he never said he did

I would not like to see you on the witness stand in court.

 

[Blade]

Yeah.. is the 12/120/3000 were still around we would be asked "have you received the holy Spirit since you believed"?

Then we believe John 3:16 but what about Luke 11:13? Its as if John 3:16 IS for today but.. Luke 11:13? Even Jesus did what Luke 11:13 says. What did Jesus ask of the Father for the 120?

We know the 12/120 were all saved when Jesus went up yes? So my guess is some seem to believe what happen to the 120.. ooh not just the 12 odd. Was something different? Wow how LUCKY for the 108... for just being there huh.

If it never happen to me I would be say.. a I already have the holy Spirit.. a truth yet not. One night they asked me.. I said yes. They read only what the word of God says.. asked me again and I said yes. They prayed then just stopped. Said "thats it you got it". Had no clue.. nothing happened.. I got up went to sit down and BAM! Tongues just came out. So.. was there a difference? HOLY JESUS YES!

In my life I have found I see so many wonders from our Father.. How? Well I just take Him at His word. If I start asking man (which at times is wise).. man I get more confused. Proof? OSAS or you can lose your salvation? How about the GIFTS? Shall I go on? Luke 11:13 Jesus or GOD said it so.. WHY would I question GOD? He said ASK so I asked.. and HE so far has ALWAYS kept His word.

For others it seems its about them being right

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

implicit assertion

I don't know. I have a pretty good command of the English language and I don't see that

That's ok. I like how we discuss. It's like a conversation, rather than trying to brow beat the other into seeing things our way.

 

[Lafftur]

If the supper, and baptism is only symbolic, then the elements are nothing more that the crucifix at the alter in front of a Roman Catholic assembly. And drinking the wine and bread or being submerged in the water is nothing more that walking up and touching that crucifix and crossing yourself. It's borderline idolatry.

But if Jesus is there present in the elements then you are communing with Jesus and doing what he said to do. It is then meaningful and serves a purpose.

Wow! You are sooooo close! It’s amazing how close you are!

You are leaving the human physical realm to encounter Christ in the Heavenly Realm....you are developing your spiritual eyes to see HIM! Amen!

But, listen...ONLY by the Holy Spirit will we know Him and recognize Him....and understand the scriptures. God will resist the proud and ONLY reveal Himself to the humble.....so, guard your heart......God knows ALL that love Him and will blind those that don’t.

JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY WAY OF SALVATION. He is the ONLY way to the Father.

If anyone rejects Jesus Christ as Savior, Lord and King, they have chosen Death.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

Wow! You are sooooo close! It’s amazing how close you are!

You are leaving the human physical realm to encounter Christ in the Heavenly Realm....you are developing your spiritual eyes to see HIM! Amen!

But, listen...ONLY by the Holy Spirit will we know Him and recognize Him....and understand the scriptures. God will resist the proud and ONLY reveal Himself to the humble.....so, guard your heart......God knows ALL that love Him and will blind those that don’t.

JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY WAY OF SALVATION. He is the ONLY way to the Father.

If anyone rejects Jesus Christ as Savior, Lord and King, they have chosen Death.

I see it this way. Jesus in his believers,
Jesus in his word
Jesus in his supper
Jesus in baptism

That Jesus is there via the Holy Spirit teaching us inhabiting his word when we read or hear it read or spoken.
Jesus in the bread and in the wine and in his word and in you via the Holy Spirit when you are at his table eating and drinking his supper.
And Jesus also there via the Holy Spirit in his word in his witnesses in the water with you and in you at baptism.

Yes, we walk by the spirit no by our natural senses. We do this by faith, knowing that we are in Christ and him in us.
I hope this is clear.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

Ps.
Jesus also in our prayers, inhabiting our prayer via the Holy Spirit, that yes we leave this and enter the spirit when we pray .

 

[lenna]

That's ok. I like how we discuss. It's like a conversation, rather than trying to brow beat the other into seeing things our way.

that is actually my preferred method of communication

this forum makes it very difficult we don't have to agree but some people need a good brow beating

 

[DWR]

since you are insulted....

For the record---
When a moderator gives your post big red X's it seem clear that is a warning that you are on the wrong side of the discussion and had best back off.

 

[lenna]

For the record---
When a moderator gives your post big red X's it seem clear that is a warning that you are on the wrong side of the discussion and had best back off.

I responded in the other thread where oncefallen addressed your concerns

what seems clear to you, including embellishing the op, is not that clear to others

and that is 'for the record'

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

For the record---
When a moderator gives your post big red X's it seem clear that is a warning that you are on the wrong side of the discussion and had best back off.

Nah, the mods here are pretty good actually. Their own bias or beliefs don't much play into who the ban. About the only thing that gets ya banned around here is a denial of the divinity of Jesus. So don't sweat it. They aren't going to ban you for disagreeing with them

 

[CS1]

I am so glad that a moderator took the time to give my post big red X's and correct me.
I will leave this thread so as not to upset this moderator.

FYI the red X means one disagree with you it does not mean you are wrong lol lighten up

 

[Lafftur]

@DWR -

Listen, you and all of us are loved greatly by God and when we disagree it's really NOT a big deal. It's a "so what" moment.

Hold on to your peace and choose to not be upset about it. If I'm wrong, God will fix me and if you're wrong, God will fix you or perhaps we're BOTH wrong either way....it's still GOD that does the "fixing."

As brothers and sisters in Christ, we really just need to walk in kindness and mutual respect and love for each other.

If you are concerned about a Moderator giving you a red X, just ask the Moderator openly if you are in trouble. No need to fear a Moderator when they disagree with you.

God loves you, DWR! I know because Jesus Christ died for you. You are loved and accepted!

 

[Lafftur]

I see it this way. Jesus in his believers,
Jesus in his word
Jesus in his supper
Jesus in baptism

That Jesus is there via the Holy Spirit teaching us inhabiting his word when we read or hear it read or spoken.
Jesus in the bread and in the wine and in his word and in you via the Holy Spirit when you are at his table eating and drinking his supper.
And Jesus also there via the Holy Spirit in his word in his witnesses in the water with you and in you at baptism.

Yes, we walk by the spirit no by our natural senses. We do this by faith, knowing that we are in Christ and him in us.
I hope this is clear.

Emmanuel..........God with us.......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Correct, the disciples were NOT SEALED until Jesus Christ breathed on them in John 20:22 because they had not fully understood the Gift of Salvation until AFTER Jesus Christ rose from the dead and appeared to them and opened their understanding of the scriptures - then they BELIEVED and were SEALED.

This is also why Judas Iscariot could fall away - Judas was NEVER SEALED.

So they were not saved until John 20?

 

[Blain]

So they were not saved until John 20?

She is saying they were not sealed by the holy spirit until then, before Jesus was resurrected they were still in the old covenant thus they were saved by faith but still had to keep that salvation although the apostles are a different matter than the rest of the Jews who would come to Christ they were chosen by Jesus because he ordained them to be the apostles who would bring and guide his church.

However the holy spirit is the one who seals us as his forever and ever we cannot lose what is given once he resides in us

 

[eternally-gratefull]

She is saying they were not sealed by the holy spirit until then, before Jesus was resurrected they were still in the old covenant thus they were saved by faith but still had to keep that salvation although the apostles are a different matter than the rest of the Jews who would come to Christ they were chosen by Jesus because he ordained them to be the apostles who would bring and guide his church.

However the holy spirit is the one who seals us as his forever and ever we cannot lose what is given once he resides in us

So no One in the OT had eternal life they had to earn salvation After they were saved?

 

[Blain]

So no One in the OT had eternal life they had to earn salvation After they were saved?

So no One in the OT had eternal life they had to earn salvation After they were saved?

Basically all the commandments and traditions that God commanded the Jews to do in the OT were to keep their salvation it was about works not merely having faith in him like we are blessed enough to have.
They had salvation but had to have strict obedience it was a heavy yoke on them, God knew they could not fully keep his commandments because man is not perfect and he promised a savior from Davids blood line but if they had eternal salvation simply by believing in the OT then what was this savior saving them from?

The bible is divided into the OT and NT for a reason we have to learn to rightly divide the word to understand the scriptures better, the holy spirit and the blood of Christ added his grace unto them they no longer had to work for their salvation only believe and be saved this was the premise of the new covenant. David was perhaps the best representation of the new covanent in the old testament he had an actual bond and relationship with God but he also did all the things that were commanded in that time yet until Jesusu came no one had eternal salvation being sealed by his spirit forever and ever

 

[Lafftur]

Correct, the disciples were NOT SEALED until Jesus Christ breathed on them in John 20:22 because they had not fully understood the Gift of Salvation until AFTER Jesus Christ rose from the dead and appeared to them and opened their understanding of the scriptures - then they BELIEVED and were SEALED.

This is also why Judas Iscariot could fall away - Judas was NEVER SEALED.

So they were not saved until John 20?

So no One in the OT had eternal life they had to earn salvation After they were saved?

Hello @eternally-gratefull,

Look at the Hall of Faith in Hebrews regarding the OT Believers........ they all died "in faith" believing yet not having obtained the promise which was that there will be a "Seed of the woman"........ a virgin will conceive...... the Anointed One is coming..... The Christ....... The Messiah..... The King of Kings and Lord of Lords.... Abraham's children will be uncountable because they are so many.....

Even with all this FAITH....... NOTHING was obtainable UNTIL Jesus Christ rose from the dead. AFTER Jesus Christ rose from the dead, other OT Believers also rose from the dead and were seen by people.

Matthew 27:52-53 King James Version (KJV)
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

BEFORE Jesus Christ died, buried, and rose from the dead....the disciples believed He had come to set up His Kingdom on the Earth now.......

His disciples did NOT fully understand the Gift of Salvation until AFTER Jesus Christ rose from the dead and appeared to them...then, they could be SEALED because they fully BELIEVED and understood - Jesus Christ opened up their understanding by breathing on them and saying, "Receive the Holy Spirit."

When Jesus breathed on his disciples in John 20:22, He SEALED them with the Holy Spirit just like He SEALS all of us that believe also, with the Holy Spirit.

However, the BAPTISM with the Holy Spirit is an empowering moment - absolutely wonderful! You literally know you are COMPLETELY POSSESSED and FILLED with God's Holy Spirit!!! 100% FILLED.

Yet, like a cellphone...... we don't get to stay at 100% UNLESS we learn how to get recharged......we need to plug in by going away from the world and all the chaos to be alone with God...... singing sweet love songs to Him, talking to Him sweetly, like a lover.......reading the scriptures, meditating on them, praying for our enemies, fellowshipping with God, and other Believers.

I've learned to take advantage of EVERY SINGLE TIME I am alone (while driving, while laying in my bed about to go to sleep, waking up..... a lot of times I have to make the time to be alone with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit but, I take advantage of EVERY time I am alone.

I ONLY listen to praise and worship music, audio bible...... I'm just constantly plugging in and trying to stay charged!

 

[soggykitten]

This message is for ALL,

Satan tries really hard to make it sound like an insult rather than an exhortation when someone is advised that they still need to receive the Holy Ghost. ESPECIALLY if that person has faith.

It can be clearly stated that Peter, James and John were even made APOSTLES before they received the Holy Ghost! John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

• Are we INSULTING them by saying they still needed to receive the Holy Ghost? Absolutely not.
• Are we claiming they don't have faith in God? No, it's quite easy to see that they believed and trusted God and Jesus.
• Are we saying the promise of the Holy Ghost isn't for them? Again, Absolutely not.
• We are just saying that people need to seek until they find, knock until it is opened, ask until they receive...and not give up along the way. We are encouraging them to CONTINUE until they receive all that God has PROMISED them...(including a place in heaven).
• We see people all over who have heard of Jesus or have a bible or have learned how to pray and recieve things (which means they have FAITH) and yet haven't even heard that they need to receive the Holy Ghost. Paul ran into a group like that in Acts 19. The bible calls them disciples. Paul acknowledged their belief. Yet they hadn't been told that they needed the Holy Ghost. They were thankfully able to receive this without taking offense...internalized the additional truth...were baptized to get it right...and eventually (not immediately) ACTUALLY RECEIVED the Holy Ghost, which didn't ACTUALLY HAPPEN until Paul laid his hands on them. That is a beautiful account because they could have taken offense instead (as Satan works hard to make happen today).

To say that someone still needs to receive the Holy Ghost isn't an insult. It's a statement that we understand that God has more for them and we're believing that they are worthy to receive it... if they TARRY until they are endued with power "For ye shall receive POWER after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you". and "For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in POWER".

Too many have much doctrine and words....but no power... and they fulfil the scripture regarding those who are "having a form of godliness, but denying the power".

If you know you have faith, and you know you believe in Jesus, and you know you love God, but also know you don't really have much power, and especially if you know that you've never "spake with new tongues as the spirit gave them utterance"...you probably need to seek God until he baptizes you with the same Holy Ghost that he gave on the day of Pentecost and promised "unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call".

As I've said to others I now say to ALL... I wish you well on your journey.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

I don't think it is an insult to share with people the plan of salvation. Part of that is receiving the holy spirit or awakening the holy spirit within.

There are some people out there however who are what I call posers. They pretend to be in the church when in reality they're in a disguise in order to harass Christians and mock our faith. They intend to insult.
Telling that type of person they need the holy spirit isn't an insult either. It's a fact. For if they had the holy spirit they wouldn't behave as they do.

 

[Blain]

Hello @eternally-gratefull,

Look at the Hall of Faith in Hebrews regarding the OT Believers........ they all died "in faith" believing yet not having obtained the promise which was that there will be a "Seed of the woman"........ a virgin will conceive...... the Anointed One is coming..... The Christ....... The Messiah..... The King of Kings and Lord of Lords.... Abraham's children will be uncountable because they are so many.....

Even with all this FAITH....... NOTHING was obtainable UNTIL Jesus Christ rose from the dead. AFTER Jesus Christ rose from the dead, other OT Believers also rose from the dead and were seen by people.

Matthew 27:52-53 King James Version (KJV)
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

BEFORE Jesus Christ died, buried, and rose from the dead....the disciples believed He had come to set up His Kingdom on the Earth now.......

His disciples did NOT fully understand the Gift of Salvation until AFTER Jesus Christ rose from the dead and appeared to them...then, they could be SEALED because they fully BELIEVED and understood - Jesus Christ opened up their understanding by breathing on them and saying, "Receive the Holy Spirit."

When Jesus breathed on his disciples in John 20:22, He SEALED them with the Holy Spirit just like He SEALS all of us that believe also, with the Holy Spirit.

However, the BAPTISM with the Holy Spirit is an empowering moment - absolutely wonderful! You literally know you are COMPLETELY POSSESSED and FILLED with God's Holy Spirit!!! 100% FILLED.

Yet, like a cellphone...... we don't get to stay at 100% UNLESS we learn how to get recharged......we need to plug in by going away from the world and all the chaos to be alone with God...... singing sweet love songs to Him, talking to Him sweetly, like a lover.......reading the scriptures, meditating on them, praying for our enemies, fellowshipping with God, and other Believers.

I've learned to take advantage of EVERY SINGLE TIME I am alone (while driving, while laying in my bed about to go to sleep, waking up..... a lot of times I have to make the time to be alone with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit but, I take advantage of EVERY time I am alone.

I ONLY listen to praise and worship music, audio bible...... I'm just constantly plugging in and trying to stay charged!

That was absolutely beautiful and such a deep testimony of the love we have with him not only that but your understanding is amazing.