It's good to be single.

[seoulsearch]

Idk; I think when women poach married men who have children, it's almost the same thing. It's very similar. And it has the similar issues with jealously and division of the man's time between wife/ex-wife and their children, except worse.

Men do the same thing.

On a Christian dating site, I was lectured by a man who told me he selected my profile specifically because I don't have kids.

He sternly told me he would only date childless women because she had to be someone who would devote all her time, energy, and attention to raising his son from his ex.

Obviously, we never went out.

It wasn't him having a child that turned me off.

It was the automatic expectation that I would have to meet all his qualifications and demands.

And he never even once asked what I was looking for or wanted in a relationship.

I run into that a lot. A long list of, "This is what you need to be and do for me," and not a single question about my own wants or needs.

Yes, I know women do this too but it's definitely not just the women.

And that, along with so many guys having porn addictions -- not all but unfortunately, the few I've liked in the past -- are some of the major reasons as to why I'm single.

 

[SomeDisciple]

I run into that a lot. A long list of, "This is what you need to be and do for me," and not a single question about my own wants or needs.

Women have wants and needs...? That's crazy. I'll have to write that down.

Online specifically, I could see a man being upfront about baggage. That's just being respectful of people's time. There's probably a more friendly or romantic way of doing it than he did though.

And that, along with so many guys having porn addictions -- not all but unfortunately, the few I've liked in the past -- are some of the major reasons as to why I'm single.

I hope a well-off Christian man without a porn addiction sweeps you off your feet.

 

[seoulsearch]

Women have wants and needs...? That's crazy. I'll have to write that down. Online specifically, I could see a man being upfront about baggage. That's just being respectful of people's time. There's probably a more friendly or romantic way of doing it than he did though. I hope a well-off Christian man without a porn addiction sweeps you off your feet.

I don't know if it was as bad in past generations, but I think dating nowadays is basically just people writing out a checklist and trying to find someone who ticks all the boxes, both for men and for women.

And I've said many times that I think Christians are actually worse that secular dates, because every Christian is told God only wants "the best" for them -- which they assume is synonymous with what THEY think is best for them.

I have a guy friend who has told me for over 20 years, "God may not send you what you want, but He'll send you what you need."

Thanks for the well-wishes.

Funny that you added in "a well-off Christian guy."

I don't need one who's well-off -- I just need one who can stick to a budget and pay for his own things. In the relationships I had, I always had to pay because they spend their money on things like clothes, games, booze, and smokes, and so I always wound up paying their actual bills.

Never. again.

If I can help it, at least. And he doesn't have to worry about paying for me. I've heard of some communities who don't want women to work -- but then how is she supposed to be able to support herself if her husband isn't good with money, and what if he runs off with someone else?

I never had much money either. The only difference is that my parents taught me to hang on to a good majority of it, because life is expensive -- and unpredictable.

 

[Smoke]

Men do the same thing.

On a Christian dating site, I was lectured by a man who told me he selected my profile specifically because I don't have kids.

He sternly told me he would only date childless women because she had to be someone who would devote all her time, energy, and attention to raising his son from his ex.

Obviously, we never went out.

It wasn't him having a child that turned me off.

It was the automatic expectation that I would have to meet all his qualifications and demands.

And he never even once asked what I was looking for or wanted in a relationship.

I run into that a lot. A long list of, "This is what you need to be and do for me," and not a single question about my own wants or needs.

Yes, I know women do this too but it's definitely not just the women.

And that, along with so many guys having porn addictions -- not all but unfortunately, the few I've liked in the past -- are some of the major reasons as to why I'm single.

Isn't it a good thing that he told you what he was wanting? I understand you took it as him demanding you do this, but perhaps he just wanted to be clear on what he's looking for. It sounds like it wasn't a good match and nothing became of it.

I do understand the point you're making in that you prefer to be ASKED what you're wanting/needing/looking for. Perhaps that's the approach he should have taken instead of explicitly stating what he was looking for.

 

[Smoke]

Women have wants and needs...? That's crazy. I'll have to write that down.

Online specifically, I could see a man being upfront about baggage. That's just being respectful of people's time. There's probably a more friendly or romantic way of doing it than he did though.


I hope a well-off Christian man without a porn addiction sweeps you off your feet.

Agreed. It's easier to be succinct an filter what you want/don't want online. However, it takes away from the "romanticism" of getting a cup of coffee and learning about each other's wants and needs. Welp, that's what people sign up for when they date online though, right? lol

 

[Smoke]

I don't know if it was as bad in past generations, but I think dating nowadays is basically just people writing out a checklist and trying to find someone who ticks all the boxes, both for men and for women.

And I've said many times that I think Christians are actually worse that secular dates, because every Christian is told God only wants "the best" for them -- which they assume is synonymous with what THEY think is best for them.

I have a guy friend who has told me for over 20 years, "God may not send you what you want, but He'll send you what you need."

Thanks for the well-wishes.

Funny that you added in "a well-off Christian guy."

I don't need one who's well-off -- I just need one who can stick to a budget and pay for his own things. In the relationships I had, I always had to pay because they spend their money on things like clothes, games, booze, and smokes, and so I always wound up paying their actual bills.

Never. again.

If I can help it, at least. And he doesn't have to worry about paying for me. I've heard of some communities who don't want women to work -- but then how is she supposed to be able to support herself if her husband isn't good with money, and what if he runs off with someone else?

I never had much money either. The only difference is that my parents taught me to hang on to a good majority of it, because life is expensive -- and unpredictable.

I tend to think dating is significantly harder today than it was 50+ years ago. The push for equality between men and women directly hinders the biblical standards and roles explicitly given to us as Christians. The brainwashing done on women to value work life over family life has doubled the working pool, thereby decreasing wages (supply and demand aye?). We are now dependent on dual incomes. Now that women are just as much a part of the work force, they feel they should have equal leadership role in the marriage and no longer are required to submit to their husband "as unto the Lord". We see weak men relinquish their biblical duties in favor of their wife taking the leadership role. It's a shame that we are pushing God's instruction aside.

 

[JohnDB]

Apparently there exists a loneliness epidemic in America.

https://mcc.gse.harvard.edu/reports/loneliness-in-america-2024

 

[MsMediator]

Idk; I think when women poach married men who have children, it's almost the same thing. It's very similar. And it has the similar issues with jealously and division of the man's time between wife/ex-wife and their children, except worse.

Poaching /stealing a married man is adultery and is very different from polygamy. The man's time now goes 100% with the new woman. Most married women would not put up with a mistress; he has to choose and there is no sharing involved. Most mistresses/second wives are understanding about the men spending time with the first set of children, unless these women are the real shallow type. They care more that all the children are treated equally financially; only the real mean women would want the guy to disinherit/disown the first set of children.

 

[seoulsearch]

I tend to think dating is significantly harder today than it was 50+ years ago. The push for equality between men and women directly hinders the biblical standards and roles explicitly given to us as Christians. The brainwashing done on women to value work life over family life has doubled the working pool, thereby decreasing wages (supply and demand aye?). We are now dependent on dual incomes. Now that women are just as much a part of the work force, they feel they should have equal leadership role in the marriage and no longer are required to submit to their husband "as unto the Lord". We see weak men relinquish their biblical duties in favor of their wife taking the leadership role. It's a shame that we are pushing God's instruction aside.

The problem though is that in today's world, most women need to work, and I feel sorry for those who never have or were prevented from doing so.

Marriage isn't a bag of chips you can just toss in your cart and check out any day you want. If someone doesn't come along, you need to support yourself. Women also need a way of supporting their families if their husbands become injured, die, or leave, especially if children are involved.

I understand that women in the workforce have changed some of the dynamics, but my parents started getting me babysitting jobs when I was around 11, and by high school, I had 3 part-time jobs.

I have not had many relationships in my life, but in every one, that guy was bad with money, and I wound up paying at least part of his bills. And the work ethic my parents instilled in me came in hand when, later on, my husband left in the middle of the day without telling me, packing up all his things (while I was at work,) and I came home to a half-empty house.

At the retirement place where my parents reside, I talk to many lone female residents who were never allowed to work -- and with their husbands long gone, are worried about running out of money, and where will they live. Some never had children, some are estranged from them, and some have family too far away (and unwilling) to help.

If I would have had daughters, I would have taught them that work is absolutely essential.

As for the roles of the woman in the household if she is making an equal or better income than her husband -- I would hope to be in a situation where he would respect that we both have different giftings, and that he would encourage each of us to take the lead in the role of that which we did best.

In the past, I was always better with finances -- but would gladly give up that role to the right husband with the right talent for it.

 

[SomeDisciple]

Poaching /stealing a married man is adultery and is very different from polygamy. The man's time now goes 100% with the new woman.

The legal/moral aspect is different; but the man's time does not go 100% toward the new woman- they are still giving that other woman allimony/child support, and going to soccer games where the other woman is, and on the phone "co-parenting" with her.

Most mistresses/second wives are understanding about the men spending time with the first set of children, unless these women are the real shallow type.

We're talking about women that poached another woman's husband; so, there's some assumed lack of depth.

 

[Lynx]

I don't know if it was as bad in past generations, but I think dating nowadays is basically just people writing out a checklist and trying to find someone who ticks all the boxes, both for men and for women.

And I've said many times that I think Christians are actually worse that secular dates, because every Christian is told God only wants "the best" for them -- which they assume is synonymous with what THEY think is best for them.

Yeah, and if you don't get everything you wanted on your list, you had to "settle." That means the one you "settled" for is not what you wanted, but you had to make do with the closest you could find.

Meanwhile one of the smartest guys I know is married to one of the dumbest girls I know. They been married more than half a century. He loves cold weather and she's always wearing a coat and turning the heat up. He's strong as an ox and she's not very. Anybody would say he settled... But they'd better not say it to his face, because he loves that girl.

 

[Smoke]

The problem though is that in today's world, most women need to work, and I feel sorry for those who never have or were prevented from doing so.

Marriage isn't a bag of chips you can just toss in your cart and check out any day you want. If someone doesn't come along, you need to support yourself. Women also need a way of supporting their families if their husbands become injured, die, or leave, especially if children are involved.

I understand that women in the workforce have changed some of the dynamics, but my parents started getting me babysitting jobs when I was around 11, and by high school, I had 3 part-time jobs.

I have not had many relationships in my life, but in every one, that guy was bad with money, and I wound up paying at least part of his bills. And the work ethic my parents instilled in me came in hand when, later on, my husband left in the middle of the day without telling me, packing up all his things (while I was at work,) and I came home to a half-empty house.

At the retirement place where my parents reside, I talk to many lone female residents who were never allowed to work -- and with their husbands long gone, are worried about running out of money, and where will they live. Some never had children, some are estranged from them, and some have family too far away (and unwilling) to help.

If I would have had daughters, I would have taught them that work is absolutely essential.

As for the roles of the woman in the household if she is making an equal or better income than her husband -- I would hope to be in a situation where he would respect that we both have different giftings, and that he would encourage each of us to take the lead in the role of that which we did best.

In the past, I was always better with finances -- but would gladly give up that role to the right husband with the right talent for it.

You're correct that dual incomes is essential for most families today. I hinted as to why. Why do you think we are dependent on dual income as a country now? Did doubling the work force decrease the demand for workers thereby decreasing wages across the board?

As far as biblical instruction, there wasn't any qualifier mentioned when it said men are to love their wives as Christ loves the church and women should submit to their husbands "as unto the Lord". I agree that if a husband was flawed in an area, he ought to ask his wife for assistance. That doesn't mean she is co-leader though. What I'm seeing is women fighting for equal leadership roles which is counter to God's plan.

You bring great points though. For these reasons, we need to thoroughly vet our significant others so we can determine if they are able to fulfill the biblical duties we are assigned. I wouldn't encourage a woman to seek a man who was incapable of financially supporting a family. I understand the nuances and difficulties in finding a man who can adequately provide for a family, but I would nevertheless think this is a non-negotiable for a female. For men, I would advise them not to seek women who refuses to submit to her future husband and favors an equal leadership role. This ought to be a non-negotiable as well.

 

[seoulsearch]

You're correct that dual incomes is essential for most families today. I hinted as to why. Why do you think we are dependent on dual income as a country now? Did doubling the work force decrease the demand for workers thereby decreasing wages across the board?

As far as biblical instruction, there wasn't any qualifier mentioned when it said men are to love their wives as Christ loves the church and women should submit to their husbands "as unto the Lord". I agree that if a husband was flawed in an area, he ought to ask his wife for assistance. That doesn't mean she is co-leader though. What I'm seeing is women fighting for equal leadership roles which is counter to God's plan.

You bring great points though. For these reasons, we need to thoroughly vet our significant others so we can determine if they are able to fulfill the biblical duties we are assigned. I wouldn't encourage a woman to seek a man who was incapable of financially supporting a family. I understand the nuances and difficulties in finding a man who can adequately provide for a family, but I would nevertheless think this is a non-negotiable for a female. For men, I would advise them not to seek women who refuses to submit to her future husband and favors an equal leadership role. This ought to be a non-negotiable as well.

To me, it doesn't matter what brought about the need for dual incomes in that I think it's been a myriad of issues, compounded over several decades, and now that the genie is out of the bottle, it can't be put back.

For my own self, rather than worry or argue about who let the genie out, I try to concentrate my efforts on what we have to do in response rather than dissecting the cause.

Thus brings the challenge of any time in history -- how to fulfill God's commands despite the brokenness of our modern social dysfunction.

Society has always been dysfunctional though, from the time Adam and Eve sinned, so I try to ask God for the tools to work around whatever we've all gotten ourselves into at this point in time.

Women holding off to find good providers is a whole other entity in itself.

My dad started out as a bagger at a grocery store when he was 15. When he and my Mom married at 19 and 21, my mom had a basic job and he had become an assistant manager at the store. Their first home was a $5000 trailer (this was many years ago.)

I smile to myself in that any other woman on the planet would have seen my Dad as a broke loser, but my parents had a shared faith in God, and a strong belief in hard work. My Dad worked his way up because he was willing to clean toilets and do the jobs everyone else thought was above them. Eventually, he was given one of the highest positions they had. My Mom stayed at home once the kids came along.

And my Dad is the finest father God could have ever chosen for me (I'm sure many people here have wonderful fathers, but my Dad -- and Mom -- are the perfectly tailored choice for my own quirky personality, and even more so that I'm adopted.)

This taught me never to discount a person's character and potential, though none of us truly know where it will lead except for God.

The other thing that's difficult, and I don't think any woman will believe me until it happens to her, is that if she wants a man who makes the amount of money she's expecting, don't count on ever actually seeing him or spending much time with him.

I grew up around a circle of men who, like my dad, started out on the lowest rung as teens but had worked their way up, and they were ALWAYS working. Seven days a week, with 12 hours being a typical day, but often more. Holidays, whether Labor Day or Christmas, just means working even longer hours behind the scenes. And these days, the workplaces are even more demanding.

Maybe there are men out there earning at least $200,000 (because I've read that women are demanding not just men who make 6 figures, but that the first figure can't be 1,) and work basic 40-hour 9-5 jobs, but I'd really like to know what kind of jobs those are and how one gets them.

 

[MsMediator]

Did doubling the work force decrease the demand for workers thereby decreasing wages across the board?

Not by too much, as that is assuming that there is only a limited number of jobs to go around. Rather, as long as as the economy is good, more and more jobs will be created and more higher income postions available. The biggest reason for two incomes is due to increased housing prices, which is caused by supply issues due to various factors including energy costs and increased population.

That doesn't mean she is co-leader though. What I'm seeing is women fighting for equal leadership roles which is counter to God's plan.

This is just the nature of women. And, this is how God punished women with this desire (the wife will want to rule over the husband). Women have always been pushing the edges which began with working outside the home, to voting, to equal pay etc. You can see in old British novels where women were bored at home.

 

[Smoke]

To me, it doesn't matter what brought about the need for dual incomes in that I think it's been a myriad of issues, compounded over several decades, and now that the genie is out of the bottle, it can't be put back.

For my own self, rather than worry or argue about who let the genie out, I try to concentrate my efforts on what we have to do in response rather than dissecting the cause.

Thus brings the challenge of any time in history -- how to fulfill God's commands despite the brokenness of our modern social dysfunction.

Society has always been dysfunctional though, from the time Adam and Eve sinned, so I try to ask God for the tools to work around whatever we've all gotten ourselves into at this point in time.

Women holding off to find good providers is a whole other entity in itself.

My dad started out as a bagger at a grocery store when he was 15. When he and my Mom married at 19 and 21, my mom had a basic job and he had become an assistant manager at the store. Their first home was a $5000 trailer (this was many years ago.)

I smile to myself in that any other woman on the planet would have seen my Dad as a broke loser, but my parents had a shared faith in God, and a strong belief in hard work. My Dad worked his way up because he was willing to clean toilets and do the jobs everyone else thought was above them. Eventually, he was given one of the highest positions they had. My Mom stayed at home once the kids came along.

And my Dad is the finest father God could have ever chosen for me (I'm sure many people here have wonderful fathers, but my Dad -- and Mom -- are the perfectly tailored choice for my own quirky personality, and even more so that I'm adopted.)

This taught me never to discount a person's character and potential, though none of us truly know where it will lead except for God.

The other thing that's difficult, and I don't think any woman will believe me until it happens to her, is that if she wants a man who makes the amount of money she's expecting, don't count on ever actually seeing him or spending much time with him.

I grew up around a circle of men who, like my dad, started out on the lowest rung as teens but had worked their way up, and they were ALWAYS working. Seven days a week, with 12 hours being a typical day, but often more. Holidays, whether Labor Day or Christmas, just means working even longer hours behind the scenes. And these days, the workplaces are even more demanding.

Maybe there are men out there earning at least $200,000 (because I've read that women are demanding not just men who make 6 figures, but that the first figure can't be 1,) and work basic 40-hour 9-5 jobs, but I'd really like to know what kind of jobs those are and how one gets them.

You speak a lot of truth. From my experience, money was never an issue because of my father's job but I didn't get the quality time most kids got to have. Pick your poison... less security and more quality time or more quality time and less security. I do think there is a happy medium somewhere in there though. I don't hold any negative feelings about it because I understand the duty my father had to the family. He went above and beyond in my opinion, and I doubt I could ever live up to the example he has set for me.

As for accepting how things are, this is the mature and advisable position. However, it's important to learn from our mistakes and where we errored. We can't fix things we don't know are broken or why/how they became broke. For this reason, we should do our best to answer these types of questions even if we mutually agree there is no putting the genie back in the bottle.

 

[seoulsearch]

You speak a lot of truth. From my experience, money was never an issue because of my father's job but I didn't get the quality time most kids got to have. Pick your poison... less security and more quality time or more quality time and less security. I do think there is a happy medium somewhere in there though. I don't hold any negative feelings about it because I understand the duty my father had to the family. He went above and beyond in my opinion, and I doubt I could ever live up to the example he has set for me.

As for accepting how things are, this is the mature and advisable position. However, it's important to learn from our mistakes and where we errored. We can't fix things we don't know are broken or why/how they became broke. For this reason, we should do our best to answer these types of questions even if we mutually agree there is no putting the genie back in the bottle.

I appreciate your calm, rational approach to conversation.

I agree with you that although there are happy mediums somewhere (security vs. quality time,) they are seldom found in this life.

As for answering questions on how things were broken -- I'm built for the interpersonal (individual stories) interactions rather than a broader sociology-type analysis, so I might not delve into the nitty-gritty of it all as much as you seem gifted to do.

Of course I like to read various sources to try to get a grasp on the basics, but I also find that discussions about how things happen often become a tangle of arguments that never move forward.

As an example, there was a time, long ago, when I was interested in criminal psychology, and rather than just reading endless theories and debats about cause and effect, I preferred corresponding with actual inmates instead. This is generally what God seems to call me to. I like getting to know about the individuals who are being affected, hearing what personally got them to that point, and then talk to them about what their plans are to move forward.

I appreciate those who like to take deep background dives, and obviously I do drop in from time to time to share my own thoughts and experiences, but eventually I take what I can from the conversation and use it to where God is calling me (which is almost always to specific people.)

 

[seoulsearch]

You speak a lot of truth. From my experience, money was never an issue because of my father's job but I didn't get the quality time most kids got to have. Pick your poison... less security and more quality time or more quality time and less security. I do think there is a happy medium somewhere in there though. I don't hold any negative feelings about it because I understand the duty my father had to the family. He went above and beyond in my opinion, and I doubt I could ever live up to the example he has set for me.

As for accepting how things are, this is the mature and advisable position. However, it's important to learn from our mistakes and where we errored. We can't fix things we don't know are broken or why/how they became broke. For this reason, we should do our best to answer these types of questions even if we mutually agree there is no putting the genie back in the bottle.

By the way, I had to look up the picture in your avatar...

I saw the original Gremlins years ago, back when you had to watch movies in a theater and once they made the rounds, they were gone -- until a very edited version might be played on TV years later.

I barely remember anything about it, and I don't think I saw the sequel.

"Mohawk," huh?

He definitely looks like he's about the paint the town in stripes.

 

[SomeDisciple]

I don't know if it was as bad in past generations, but I think dating nowadays is basically just people writing out a checklist and trying to find someone who ticks all the boxes, both for men and for women.

And I've said many times that I think Christians are actually worse that secular dates,

And I've said many times that "dating" is not a real thing. If Christians are bad at dating, it's because it's not a Christian concept. It's an entirely worldly framework that doesn't even make any sense.

I don't need one who's well-off --

You definitely do. I can feel it oozing through my computer monitor. "what if THIS or THAT happens!?" blah, blah, blah. Something, something "we can't put the genie back into the bottle". That's taxing on a man who has more vision and determination than wealth.

 

[seoulsearch]

I don't need a man who's well-off -- I just need one who can stick to a budget and pay for his own things. In the relationships I had, I always had to pay because they spend their money on things like clothes, games, booze, and smokes, and so I always wound up paying their actual bills.

You definitely do. I can feel it oozing through my computer monitor. "what if THIS or THAT happens!?" blah, blah, blah. Something, something "we can't put the genie back into the bottle". That's taxing on a man who has more vision and determination than wealth.

As for a man having more vision and determination than wealth, I'm guessing you didn't read my post in another thread about how my dad started out as a bagger in a grocery store, and when my parents married, their first home was a $5000 trailer.

My Mom fell in love with my Dad because of their common faith, and, as you put it, his "vision and determination" -- which was all they had -- certainly not wealth. This is one of the most valuable things I've learned from watching my parents, to never dismiss someone's character and willingness to work hard.

It's interesting to hear you tell me what I need. Have you considered that if I think, "What if this or that happens?" -- I also take action to try to do something about it?

When I was married, my then-husband and I had nothing but a dream to work hard, raise a family while we were young, then hopefully retire and travel. And when he left for his girlfriend, it took many years for me to pull myself together, but God told me, "Don't give up on your dreams," and that's what I've been working towards ever since.

My main goal is to try my hardest to never be a burden to anyone. Yes, I worry about the "what if's" of life, but my parents taught me to have faith in God's provisions, then prepare for the unknown as best I as I can. I buy health insurance because I don't want to saddle anyone, whether family or possible future husband, if I have future medical expenses. I build up an emergency fund, because when my car needs repairs or if it was totaled in an accident, I can buy a new one and carry on with my responsibilities. When I'm older, I plan to buy policies to ensure that again, I hopefully won't rope anyone with the burden of my long-term care if I should need it.

And I still dream of traveling, which I've been blessed to do a little of with single friends.

This is what I would hope to offer a future husband, and what I've worked so hard to be -- a woman who can pay for herself in most any situation, so he doesn't have to worry about guarding his wallet because I already have most of what I need, and if I lack something, I'm still working for it.

I want to be someone a man could relax around, let down his guards and be himself, and moving into a phase of life that might possibly head towards retirement and travel.

In our 20's and 30's, all we have is "vision and determination." But those days are long behind me, and I'm at an age where I -- and hopefully others in my age range -- start to have something to show for putting decades of vision and determination to use.

This is what I would hope to offer if I met someone, and would hope that he might be able to offer some of the same. While God gives us different roles that neither gender can fill, I do try my best to no expect things from someone else that I don't meet (except for individual giftings and talents, etc.)

If there's something so terribly wrong with that, well, I'll just have to ask God to correct me, take me back to the drawing board, and start working on whatever else needs to be fixed.

 

[Lynx]

You definitely do. I can feel it oozing through my computer monitor. "what if THIS or THAT happens!?" blah, blah, blah. Something, something "we can't put the genie back into the bottle". That's taxing on a man who has more vision and determination than wealth.

Yeah, no... I know her personally, and without giving details that are not mine to give, I can still reassure you that she definitely does not need what she says she does not need. Like, at all.

You need to check the reception on that monitor. Maybe run a color match scan. It is definitely off somewhere.