It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Atwood]

Jn 14:16,17 was spoken to the apostles and the Comforter was promises only to the apostles, Acts 1:1-5, no one else.

What is your proof of that? Prove that in the passage of John 14 wherein 16 & 17 occur as part of one address, the only ones addressed are apostles.

[Audience, read the speech which includes 16 & 17 and see how many times a wider group is implied beside the apostles.]

Prove that the Spirit Baptism was not given to all believers in accordance with 1 Cor 12:13.

Prove that if apostles are mentioned as getting some blessing, that means that no one else gets it.

Prove that if it rains in Chicago, it thus rains nowhere else.

 

[newbirth]

You can receive a "gift of Seabass" but you do not receive Seabass but you receive the gift Seabass has to give.

2 Tim 1:6 one can receive a "gift of God" but that does not they are receiving God Himself. Likewise one can receive the" gift of the Holy Ghost" does not mean they are receiving the Holy Ghost Himself but receives the gift the Holy Ghost is giving.

I will go out on a limb and post my opinion ...what I believe...not as a some revelation but of hope and of faith...it is recorded the Spirit of God was seen descending on Jesus in the form of a dove, on the day of Pentecost as tongues of fire on the disciples in the upper room....even if I have not received the HS in the same capacity as Jesus and those in the upper room ...I believe it is from the same source and just as potent ....the promise is for" the gift of the Spirit"....not a "gift" from the Spirit....God's Word is Spirit and it is those living words he has written on our Hearts....just as he breathe in Adam and he became a living soul....even so the living word he wrote on our hearts makes us a quickening spirit...In the early Church when one received the gift of the HS ...what was evident was they all prophesied (spoke the word of God) So it is something God literally put inside them coming out...(the living Word) His Spirit...

 

[newbirth]

Jn 14:16,17 was spoken to the apostles and the Comforter was promises only to the apostles, Acts 1:1-5, no one else.

The Holy Spirit representationally is in the Christian though the word as sin dwells not literally but represntationally by its influence. As God and Christ both representationally indwell in the Christian by their influence, not literally.


A man is a hard worker and has a son that is also a hard worker
This man is also a farmer and his son is also a farmer
This man believes in x,y,x and his son also believes in x,y,z

Someone may tell this son that they see his father in him. This does not men the father is literally indwelling in the son but the son shows traits, characteristics, influences of the father that are being represented in the son.

Likewise the Holy Spirit authored the bible and those that live by the bible will have traits, characteristics, influences of the Holy Spirit that are being represented in the Christian.

if what you say is true then the church died with the apostles and Peter lied in Acts 2:39

Jn 14:16,17 was spoken to the apostles and the Comforter was promises only to the apostles, Acts 1:1-5, no one else.

Colossians 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

 

[Atwood]

As to having God Himself:

15:1 After these things the word of YHWH came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

I am not awfully interested in the opinion of those who have never been regenerated, indwelt, baptized, & sealed by the blessed Holy Spirit.

But those of us who trust the Savior (not works, not water) for salvation, have the blessed reality of God living in them. We are His Temple. Just as our own spirits dwell in our bodies, so the Spirit of God dwells in our bodies.

For who among men knows the things of a man, save
the spirit of the man, which is in him?
even so the things of God none knoweth, save the Spirit of God. But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God; that we might know the things that were freely given to us of God.
1 Cor 2
τίς γὰρ οἶδεν ἀνθρώπων τὰ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου εἰ μὴ τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ ἀνθρώπου τὸ ἐν αὐτῷ; οὕτως καὶ τὰ τοῦ θεοῦ οὐδεὶς ἔγνωκεν εἰ μὴ τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ θεοῦ. 12 ἡμεῖς δὲ οὐ τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ κόσμου ἐλάβομεν ἀλλὰ τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ, ἵνα εἰδῶμεν τὰ ὑπὸ τοῦ θεοῦ χαρισθέντα ἡμῖν

τίς γὰρ οἶδεν = For who knows?
ἀνθρώπων = of men
τὰ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου = the things of a man
εἰ μὴ = except
τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ ἀνθρώπου = the spirit of the man
τὸ ἐν αὐτῷ; = the in him

τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ ἀνθρώπου τὸ ἐν αὐτῷ
= the spirit of the man

οὕτως καὶ τὰ τοῦ θεοῦ οὐδεὶς ἔγνωκεν εἰ μὴ τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ θεοῦ.ἡμεῖς δὲ οὐ τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ κόσμου ἐλάβομεν ἀλλὰ τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ, ἵνα εἰδῶμεν τὰ ὑπὸ τοῦ θεοῦ χαρισθέντα ἡμῖν =

even so the things of God none knows, save the Spirit of God. But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God; that we might know the things that were freely given to us of God.

One of those things is salvation. But the one who trusts water/works does not know salvation, never having received God's Spirit -- yet that one may get on the internet to tell us who have the Spirit, just what it's all about!

The blessed Holy Spirit Himself is a great free gift for all who trust the Lord Jesus as Savior. And this Spirit bears witness with our spirits that we are sons of God. He has us, and we have Him -- by His grace.

We are sealed. Our connection to God is eternal unbreakable, incorruptible & undefilable -- it will never fade away. We can pause, turn attention to Him, and there He is! We sense His blessed presence. He dwells in us. This is the cause of great joy.

In a love that cannot cease,
I am His, and He is mine.

 

[SeaBass]

I will go out on a limb and post my opinion ...what I believe...not as a some revelation but of hope and of faith...it is recorded the Spirit of God was seen descending on Jesus in the form of a dove, on the day of Pentecost as tongues of fire on the disciples in the upper room....even if I have not received the HS in the same capacity as Jesus and those in the upper room ...I believe it is from the same source and just as potent ....the promise is for" the gift of the Spirit"....not a "gift" from the Spirit....God's Word is Spirit and it is those living words he has written on our Hearts....just as he breathe in Adam and he became a living soul....even so the living word he wrote on our hearts makes us a quickening spirit...In the early Church when one received the gift of the HS ...what was evident was they all prophesied (spoke the word of God) So it is something God literally put inside them coming out...(the living Word) His Spirit...

Other passages in the bible that speak of the gift of the Holy Spirit it is speaking of a miraculous gift, Acts 8:19,20; Acts 10:45,46; Acts 11:17; Eph 4:8 so why would gift of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2:38 be any different? Peter spoke of the miraculous gift that would come from the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:17,18. So I do not see the gift being the Holy Spirit Himself but a gift He has to give. Again, 2 Tim 1:6 did he receive God Himself or receive the gift God had to give?
[Of course, the Holy Spirit's miraculous gift ceased with the completion of the NT canon, 1 Cor 13; Eph 4.]

 

[SeaBass]

if what you say is true then the church died with the apostles and Peter lied in Acts 2:39



Colossians 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

In Acts 2:39 Peter said "for "THE promise" is unto you"

"The promise" refers to the Abrahamic promise of Gen 18:18; Gen 22:18 cf Gal 3:29 "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

In Acts 2:38 one must repent and be baptized THEN becomes a Christian THEN becomes an heir to 'the promise'.

One cannot be an heir BEFORE he repents and is baptized becoming a Christian.

And "the promise" is not just for the Jew but " unto you, and to your children (Jews), and to all that are afar off (Gentiles),"

"the promise" is also unto "as many as the Lord our God shall call." The Lord calls by His gospel, 2 Thess 2:14 so anyone that answers the gospel call becoming a Christian then becomes an heir according to "the promise"

"The promise" has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit's miraculous gift.

 

[Atwood]

In Acts 2:39 Peter said "for "THE promise" is unto you" "The promise" refers to the Abrahamic promise

Alice in Wonderland. The promise in context is not the Abrahamic Covenant. There are many promises in the Bible. Context determines meaning:

"ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For to you is the promise"

Now how can you restrict this to apostles?

In Acts 2:38 one must repent and be baptized THEN becomes a Christian THEN becomes an heir to 'the promise'.

Repent = change of mind to believing in Christ. Repent of trusting water & works & trust the Savior.

Baptism in context is Holy Spirit Baptism.

One cannot be an heir BEFORE he repents and is baptized becoming a Christian.

Heretical Balderdash!

Now you cannot be immersed in water before you are a believer. But if you can't be a believer until you are immersed, then you could never become a Christian! For once you believe, you are a believer -- and if you believe in Christ as your Savior, then you are convinced that He saves you. (Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.) Believing in Christ is trusting Him to save you, but if you cannot be saved until after dunked, then you cannot trust Him to save you until dunked. But if you cannot be dunked until you are a believer (& you have no right to believe until dunked), then it would be impossible to be a believer.

Problem: On your theory, no one can trust Christ as Savior until dunked, and at the same time, no one can be dunked until He trusts Christ as Savior.

Thus your system is impossible & nonsense.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved. In a multitude of passages, no baptism is mentioned, just BELIEVE (have faith). Such language as
whosoever believes, anyone who believes, & everyone who believes
RULES OUT ANY ESSENTIAL other hoop to jump through.

"the promise" is also unto "as many as the Lord our God shall call." The Lord calls by His gospel, 2 Thess 2:14 so

There it is folks, the famous/infamous SeaBass slick "so." Have you noticed how he is every sticking in so when the preceding does not prove the following at all? That Seabass Slick "So." What out for the SeaBass Slick So.

[/quote]anyone that answers the gospel call becoming a Christian then becomes an heir according to "the promise"[/quote]

See the SeaBass Slick So? He quoted a vs that implies that as many as the Lord calls get saved. Then he changes the call to an answer! A call is not an answer! This is called sophistry.

"The promise" has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit's miraculous gift.[

/QUOTE]

That's what the SeaBass says (watch out for his hook). Repeating a lie does not prove a thing. That's what the SeaBass says. But I don't believe the SeaBass So.

I believe this:

"ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For to you is the promise"

 

[SeaBass]

Alice in Wonderland. The promise in context is not the Abrahamic Covenant. There are many promises in the Bible. Context determines meaning:

"ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For to you is the promise"

Now how can you restrict this to apostles?



Repent = change of mind to believing in Christ. Repent of trusting water & works & trust the Savior.

Baptism in context is Holy Spirit Baptism.



Heretical Balderdash!

Now you cannot be immersed in water before you are a believer. But if you can't be a believer until you are immersed, then you could never become a Christian! For once you believe, you are a believer -- and if you believe in Christ as your Savior, then you are convinced that He saves you. (Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.) Believing in Christ is trusting Him to save you, but if you cannot be saved until after dunked, then you cannot trust Him to save you until dunked. But if you cannot be dunked until you are a believer (& you have no right to believe until dunked), then it would be impossible to be a believer.

Problem: On your theory, no one can trust Christ as Savior until dunked, and at the same time, no one can be dunked until He trusts Christ as Savior.

Thus your system is impossible & nonsense.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved. In a multitude of passages, no baptism is mentioned, just BELIEVE (have faith). Such language as
whosoever believes, anyone who believes, & everyone who believes
RULES OUT ANY ESSENTIAL other hoop to jump through.



There it is folks, the famous/infamous SeaBass slick "so." Have you noticed how he is every sticking in so when the preceding does not prove the following at all? That Seabass Slick "So." What out for the SeaBass Slick So.

anyone that answers the gospel call becoming a Christian then becomes an heir according to "the promise"[/quote]

See the SeaBass Slick So? He quoted a vs that implies that as many as the Lord calls get saved. Then he changes the call to an answer! A call is not an answer! This is called sophistry.

"The promise" has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit's miraculous gift.[

/QUOTE]

That's what the SeaBass says (watch out for his hook). Repeating a lie does not prove a thing. That's what the SeaBass says. But I don't believe the SeaBass So.

I believe this:

"ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For to you is the promise"

Peter put "repent and be baptized" BEFORE "remission of sins", the heresy comes by those who try to re-write, change this to fit their man-made theologies. And the fact remains those, that do repent and are baptized (become a Christian) will be hairs the the promise.

"THE promise" is a clear reference to a specific promise, the Abrahamic promise. Peter did NOT say "the gift of the Holy Spirit is promised to you", but said "for to you (those that obey verse 38 by repenting and being baptized) is "THE PROMISE". Even if we suppose Peter was promising them a literal indwelling of the Holy Spirit, one would not get it until he FIRST repents and is baptized....still leaving you in a quandary.

In Acts 2:38 those that are baptized will be recipients of "the promise".

And in Gal 3:27-29 Peter makes the same connection between being baptized and being an heir of the promise.

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Paul said if ye "be Christ's". One has to FIRST be in the possession of Christ to be an heir to the promise. How does one come into the possession of Christ? WATER BAPTISM for as many of you that have been baptized INTO Christ have put on Christ. Faith only leaves one NOT being in the possession of Christ, NOT being an heir to the promise.

 

[AtonedFor]

"ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
For to you is the promise"

I can quite easily prove that the gift and the promise
is what happened on that fateful Day of Pentecost:
-- the reception of the Holy Spirit INSIDE believers unto salvation
and
-- the reception of the Holy Spirit UPON believers unto the baptism with the Holy Spirit
(with the initial evidence of this reception by speaking in tongues).

Butski, who is interested in spiritual truth?
Who is not hung up on hanging on to false doctrine,
which was spawned by Satan and the church?

Not believing in the Scriptural promises, explanations, and etc. is simply UNBELIEF.
And God hates unbelief.

 

[SeaBass]

Even if we suppose Peter was promising them a literal indwelling of the Holy Spirit, one would not get it until he FIRST repents and is baptized....still leaving you in a quandary.

Addendum:

One other issue you will have to twist your way around:

Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

The use of the conjunction "and" would indicate that the "gift of the Holy Ghost" is something different from and the result after one is "baptized. And being "baptized" is something different from and results from after one "repents".

Yet some people, to avoid the necessity of water baptism, claim that the 'baptism' of Acts 2:38 is baptism with the Holy Spirit, that they receive an indwelling of the HS when baptized. You you claim "gift of the Holy Ghost" is ALSO the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. So if this were true, does one receive the indwelling of the Holy Ghost when baptized or receive the gift of an indwelling of the Holy Ghost sometimes after being baptized.

Yet "shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" is future tense. So if "gift of the Holy Ghost" means an indwelling of the Holy Ghost, then this baptism of Acts 2:38 cannot be baptism with the Holy Ghost for one would not receive the Holy Ghost until some point in the future AFTER already having been baptized. He would receive an indwelling of the Holy Ghost as a gift in the future some time AFTER he was baptized with the Holy Spirit.

So you will have to make up your mind:.

is the 'baptism' of Acts 2:38 the baptism with the Holy Ghost where one receives an indwelling of the HG when baptized

or

one does not receive an indwelling of the Holy Ghost when baptized but receives that indwelling sometime in the future as a "gift" AFTER he was already baptized with the Holy Ghost.

 

[Atwood]

Addendum:

You said it.

One other issue you will have to twist your way around:

Let's watch the twist! And the sophistry of the SeaBass.

Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

The use of the conjunction "and" would indicate that the "gift of the Holy Ghost" is something different from and the result after one is "baptized. And being "baptized" is something different from and results from after one "repents".

Now what proof does SeaBass have that "and" is not commonly epexegetical? What proof does he have that "and" means something different?

Yet some people, to avoid the necessity of water baptism, claim that the 'baptism' of Acts 2:38 is baptism with the Holy Spirit, that they receive an indwelling of the HS when baptized. You you claim "gift of the Holy Ghost" is ALSO the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. So if this were true, does one receive the indwelling of the Holy Ghost when baptized or receive the gift of an indwelling of the Holy Ghost sometimes after being baptized.

Actually all Christians are regenerated, baptized, indwelt, and sealed the moment they believe -- distinct works of the Spirit, yet universal & instantaneous to everyone who believes in this dispensation.

Yet "shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" is future tense.

This is a future tense of immediate consequence, as in Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved. Prophet Peter is offering making an offer: Do this, & God will do that.

So if "gift of the Holy Ghost" means an indwelling of the Holy Ghost, then this baptism of Acts 2:38 cannot be baptism with the Holy Ghost for one would not receive the Holy Ghost until some point in the future AFTER already having been baptized. He would receive an indwelling of the Holy Ghost as a gift in the future some time AFTER he was baptized with the Holy Spirit.

You invent a supposed time gap where there is none. The only condition put on men is to repent (have a change of mind from unbelief to belief). Both the baptism of the Spirit & the indwelling of the Spirit are things that God does to man; man doesn't do either. "Be baptized . . . , and ye shall receive" are 2 consequences following repentence, both done by God. And the passage does not say that one follows the other, any more than if I eat green eggs & ham, that means what order I eat them in.

As to making up the mind, for you to have a change of mind from trusting in water/works to trusting the Savior is advisable.

 

[Atwood]

It is satanic heresy to deny the word of God. But if you are dead set on getting to Heaven by works (not salvation but validation), then you are unlikely to confess how utterly sinful you are, & how you must have the grace of God for salvation. And then you are also likely to object to the actual content of salvation:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.

I give them eternal life,
and they shall never perish.

Now what is it you don't get?
The term "eternal"?
Or is it the "never perish"?

Speaking to those who trust the Savior:

He Who began a good work in you will complete it.

 

[newbirth]

Other passages in the bible that speak of the gift of the Holy Spirit it is speaking of a miraculous gift, Acts 8:19,20; Acts 10:45,46; Acts 11:17; Eph 4:8 so why would gift of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2:38 be any different? Peter spoke of the miraculous gift that would come from the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:17,18. So I do not see the gift being the Holy Spirit Himself but a gift He has to give. Again, 2 Tim 1:6 did he receive God Himself or receive the gift God had to give?
[Of course, the Holy Spirit's miraculous gift ceased with the completion of the NT canon, 1 Cor 13; Eph 4.]

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 

[newbirth]

In Acts 2:39 Peter said "for "THE promise" is unto you"

"The promise" refers to the Abrahamic promise of Gen 18:18; Gen 22:18 cf Gal 3:29 "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

In Acts 2:38 one must repent and be baptized THEN becomes a Christian THEN becomes an heir to 'the promise'.

One cannot be an heir BEFORE he repents and is baptized becoming a Christian.

And "the promise" is not just for the Jew but " unto you, and to your children (Jews), and to all that are afar off (Gentiles),"

"the promise" is also unto "as many as the Lord our God shall call." The Lord calls by His gospel, 2 Thess 2:14 so anyone that answers the gospel call becoming a Christian then becomes an heir according to "the promise"

"The promise" has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit's miraculous gift.

this is the prophecy concerning the promise....this is what Peter is talking about...
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

[SUP]18 [/SUP]And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

[SUP]19 [/SUP]And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
[SUP]20 [/SUP]The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

God gives us of HIS Spirit....

1 John 4:13
Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

 

[newbirth]

Actually all Christians are regenerated, baptized, indwelt, and sealed the moment they believe -- distinct works of the Spirit, yet universal & instantaneous to everyone who believes in this dispensation.

where does the scripture teach that???
devils believe also....
faith without works is dead..
scripture does not teach God gives the HS to those who only believe...
Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
scripture does not teach God gives salvation to those who only believe
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

 

[BradC]

where does the scripture teach that???
devils believe also....
faith without works is dead..
scripture does not teach God gives the HS to those who only believe...
Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
scripture does not teach God gives salvation to those who only believe
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

The devils believe that their is but one God because they know it to be true, but they have no fellowship in that truth for that truth is not in them (John 8:44, James 2:13). Anyone can believe that there is but one God but they have no fellowship with that one God unless it is through Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God (1 John 1:3). The Muslims believe in one God but have no fellowship with God through Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son. Evil spirits also knew that Jesus and Paul were of that one God and had authority and power (trembled) to cast them out (Acts 19:15). The work of God is to believe upon the one whom God has sent (John 6:29) and the devils do not believe or put their trust in the Son for they have been alientated and rejected by God through their own iniquity.

Psalm 94:20,21

20 Shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee, which frameth mischief by a law?
21 They gather themselves together against the soul of the righteous, and condemn the innocent blood.

 

[newbirth]

The devils believe that their is but one God because they know it to be true, but they have no fellowship in that truth for that truth is not in them (John 8:44, James 2:13). Anyone can believe that there is but one God but they have no fellowship with that one God unless it is through Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God (1 John 1:3). The Muslims believe in one God but have no fellowship with God through Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son. Evil spirits also knew that Jesus and Paul were of that one God and had authority and power (trembled) to cast them out (Acts 19:15). The work of God is to believe upon the one whom God has sent (John 6:29) and the devils do not believe or put their trust in the Son for they have been alientated and rejected by God through their own iniquity.

Psalm 94:20,21

20 Shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee, which frameth mischief by a law?
21 They gather themselves together against the soul of the righteous, and condemn the innocent blood.

Actually all Christians are regenerated, baptized, indwelt, and sealed the moment they believe

what Atwood is saying is that a man can be a christian and not even know it...

 

[SeaBass]

Addendum:

You said it.



Let's watch the twist! And the sophistry of the SeaBass.

Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."



Now what proof does SeaBass have that "and" is not commonly epexegetical? What proof does he have that "and" means something different?



Actually all Christians are regenerated, baptized, indwelt, and sealed the moment they believe -- distinct works of the Spirit, yet universal & instantaneous to everyone who believes in this dispensation.

Yet "shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" is future tense.

This is a future tense of immediate consequence, as in Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved. Prophet Peter is offering making an offer: Do this, & God will do that.



You invent a supposed time gap where there is none. The only condition put on men is to repent (have a change of mind from unbelief to belief). Both the baptism of the Spirit & the indwelling of the Spirit are things that God does to man; man doesn't do either. "Be baptized . . . , and ye shall receive" are 2 consequences following repentence, both done by God. And the passage does not say that one follows the other, any more than if I eat green eggs & ham, that means what order I eat them in.

As to making up the mind, for you to have a change of mind from trusting in water/works to trusting the Savior is advisable.

You did not solve your problem only made it worse.

1) you claim "be baptized" means one is baptized with the HS being indwelt by the HS
2) you also claim "gift of the HS" also refers to the indwelling of the HS.

So you have "be baptized" and "gift of the HS" BOTH meaning indwelling of the HS.

Yet you posted above "This is a future tense of immediate consequence.."

So you have receiving the gift of the HS (indwelling) as the consequence of having been baptized (indwelling). You now have an indwelling (gift) as the consequence of an indwelling (baptized). One would not need the consequence (gift of indwelling) if he already has the indwelling at the point of baptism.


-------------


--Repent and be baptized are two different things
--heareth and believeth Jn 5:24 are two different things.
--believe and confess RIm 10:9,10 are two different things
--baptized and gift of the HS would also be two different things as YOU showed with one being the consequence of the other. Cannot be the same thing if one is the consequence of the other having already happened.

 

[SeaBass]

It is satanic heresy to deny the word of God. But if you are dead set on getting to Heaven by works (not salvation but validation), then you are unlikely to confess how utterly sinful you are, & how you must have the grace of God for salvation. And then you are also likely to object to the actual content of salvation:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.

I give them eternal life,
and they shall never perish.

Now what is it you don't get?
The term "eternal"?
Or is it the "never perish"?

Speaking to those who trust the Savior:

He Who began a good work in you will complete it.

You continue to ignore Jn 10:27 and Phil 1:5 both show man's faithfulness to God. God is faithful to those that remain faithful to Him and God has no obligation to remain faithful to those that become unfaithful to Him.

 

[SeaBass]

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Yes, the spirit dwells in the Christian but I do not see that dwelling is literal/personal, but representatively by the word.

Col 3:16 "Let the word of Christ dwell in you
Eph 5:18 "be filled with the Spirit;"

Two parallel passages with the word dwelling in you equivalent to being filled with the spirit.