"It is finished." What is the "it?"

[Elin]

I believe that you are the one that is confused, and one reason is because you are using a bible version that has changed the wording in Gal 2:16. Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the "faith of Jesus Christ", not, "faith in Jesus Christ". The little word "in" changes the faith of Jesus to the faith Of man. --even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the "faith of Christ", not "faith in Christ". Check your version with the KJV.

In "the faith of Jesus Christ," neither the words "the" nor "of" are in the Greek text, they have been added by the translator.

 

[forsha]

no eph 2: 5 does not refute the idea. Eph 2: 5 ends with the fact we are saved by grace. Thus you MUST use eph 2: 8-9 to get proper context. since it explains how we are saved by grace (through faith)

Not to mention. as I already said, Eph 1: 13 and 14 totally refutes the idea, as it shows how and why were are born and sealed with the spirit.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who[SUP][a][/SUP] is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

The bible was not written in chapter verse format. Men broke in down in chapters and verses, you read the whole of the conversation or subject matter to interpret it. You do not pick one sentence out and make your own doctrine.

Eph 1:13 - In order to trust in Jesus, or hear the word preached and be able to discern the understanding of it, you would have to already be born of the Spirit because 1 Cor 2:14 says that the natural man, void of the Spirit, will not, and can not discern anything of a spiritual nature.

 

[forsha]

In "the faith of Jesus Christ," neither the words "the" nor "of" are in the Greek text, they have been added by the translator.

Elin, are you saying that we justify ourselves, and Jesus does not justify us?

 

[Jeff_56]

Re: "It is finished." What is the "it?"


Whatever it means my pastor will tell me

"spinach is READY ! " "COME AND GET IT!"

 

[Elin]

I believe that you are the one that is confused, and one reason is because you are using a bible version that has changed the wording in Gal 2:16. Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by
the "faith of Jesus Christ", not, "faith in Jesus Christ". The little word "in" changes the faith of Jesus to the faith Of man. --even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the "faith of Christ", not "faith in Christ". Check your version with the KJV.

However, in Gal 2:16, "the faith of Jesus Christ," neither the words "the" nor "of" are in the Greek text, they have been added by the translator.

Considering the whole counsel of God shows that our propitiation (atonement) is through
our faith in his blood (Ro 3:25).

So God's justice on our guilt is satisfied by Christ's actions on the cross,
by which our sin is then forgiven (justification, and that forgiveness is salvation--Lk 1:77)
through the gift (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1, Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3) our faith (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1;
Ac 18:27, Ro 12:3) in Christ (Ro 3:25),
by which that atonement is applied to us, as the blood was applied by hyssop
to cleanse the defiled altar on which sin was laid in the sin-bearing sacrifice.

The NT hyssop by which the blood is applied is our faith, which is a gift.

God gets all the glory.

Rebirth by the Holy Spirit brings with it the gift of our faith, through which the atonement of Jesus is applied to us (Ro 3:25), and by which application we are justified (declared "not guilty;" forgiven),
which forgiveness is salvation (Lk 1:77).

Justification/salvation is through the gift of our faith (Ro 3:25) given at rebirth.

 

[yaright]

Once again you are only looking it from the English wording, and now how the Greek context is actually applied.
The translators and I do not care what translation version a person uses has wording issues, which is why we can not go by the words themselves.
Even the bible says that the Holy Spirit leads us through all truth, and by reading just the standard English the translators used you would think that way as the scriptures do look like they say that. However if you look in scripture and you have this one that says have eternal life, then you have many others from Paul that say hope of, or one must continue in the faith then you have a contradiction unless you search it out through the Spirit. When one does that they will find out it is assurance of having it, not actual physical. There is another scripture that refutes the actual physical possession of it right now to, and that is Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:50 where he says flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of heaven. Do we still walk in our bodies of flesh and blood? Yes we do there for the inheritance is given when we are transformed into are new spiritual eternal bodies.

The bible uses creation in a language that agrees with your understanding of what part of you is redeemed by the blood and flesh of the Lamb of God. I have given witness on this site to a law that reveals this part of you; the sacrifice of the lamb to redeem the foal of a donkey. When the laws and words of the prophets become evidence within a person's heart, mind and soul, that is the meaning of fulfilled as each generation come and goes, But this selfless act of a path Jesus walked to the Cross remains to this day as a memorial, a witness of the things God set before us in the One whom God said, "This is My Son, in whom I am well pleased; Hear Him!" This became one more evidence of the things Jesus was sent to each of us so that we would not stand before Him empty handed. I wouldn't know to give this witness without the reassurance of the Holy Spirit who does not cease teaching.

 

[Elin]

There is another scripture that refutes the actual physical possession of it right now to, and that is Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:50 where he says flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of heaven. Do we still walk in our bodies of flesh and blood? Yes we do there for the inheritance is given when we are transformed into are new spiritual eternal bodies.

But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[SUP][d][/SUP] because of righteousness. Rom 8:10

Your body of flesh hasn't been pardoned for Heaven, your spirit has.

Look at 1Co 15 and you will see that Paul's usage there and elsewhere of "flesh and blood" means the natural, sinful, weak, corruptible body, which cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Likewise, his usage of "spiritual" there and everywhere never means non-material, non-physical spirits.
It means the physical body transformed into a glorious, sinless, incorruptible physical body fit to inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Our resurrection spiritual (of the Holy Spirit) bodies are physical just as Jesus' resurrection body is.

And our natural physical bodies are not an impediment to eternal life (Holy Spirit life) in our reborn spirits.

 

[michael56]

Look at 1Co 15 and you will see that Paul's usage there and elsewhere of "flesh and blood" means the natural, sinful, weak, corruptible body, which cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Likewise, his usage of "spiritual" there and everywhere never means non-material, non-physical spirits.
It means the physical body transformed into a glorious, sinless, incorruptible physical body fit to inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Our resurrection spiritual (of the Holy Spirit) bodies are physical just as Jesus' resurrection body is.

And our natural physical bodies are not an impediment to eternal life (Holy Spirit life) in our reborn spirits.

[SUP]30 [/SUP]At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven Matt22:30

Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation Heb1:14

Am I being too literalist Elin?

 

[Elin]

[SUP]30 [/SUP]At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven Matt22:30

Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation Heb1:14

Am I being too literalist Elin?

I think so. . .or maybe not literal enough.

They will be like the angels, they will not be angels.

They will be like them in that there will be no marriage and procreation.

 

[yaright]

View attachment 102596

"spinach is READY ! " "COME AND GET IT!"

Lol, Jesus said, "Do you love Me more than these?"

If all you want to watch is reruns, your pastor has shelves full of them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

John 6 is a picture of the communion as the words He is saying here is the same He says at the last supper.
Communion is not a Catholic belief, it is mentioned in the bible in Matthew 26:26-28, Luke 22:19-20, John 6:53-58, 1 Corinthians 11:24-29, Acts 2:42, and Acts 20:7-11

John 6 is not about communion.

Have you ever read the whole passage. You can not take it to mean communion with everything else jesus said in the passage. That is taking him completely out of context.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus said otherwise in Jn 5:24, 6:54, that we have it now.

Your notion of eternal life remains a human and unbiblical one.

He can;t have eternal life be real now. if it is, His whole works based self centered gospel is refuted and down the toilet.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Re: "It is finished." What is the "it?"


LOL!!! doesn't matter

from your last few posts. You act like a kid. Maybe this place is not for you. This is an adult chatroom. I am sure we can find a little kiddies chatroom you may feel more comfortable in.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

John 16:13

"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.



1 Corinthians 2:10

For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.

so when are you going to start listening the the spirit. and stop listening to men?

Just a question

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe that you are the one that is confused, and one reason is because you are using a bible version that has changed the wording in Gal 2:16. Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the "faith of Jesus Christ", not, "faith in Jesus Christ". The little word "in" changes the faith of Jesus to the faith Of man. --even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the "faith of Christ", not "faith in Christ". Check your version with the KJV.

So Jesus trusts himself. and because of that we are saved?

Dude you have some weird beliefs there

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What is your understanding of John 6:39? You only have one choice, 1. Christ died for only those that his Father gave him. Unless you are using a version that has changed the wording.

if your going to keep ignoring the rest of John 6 and context. Then you are no better then ken here. And not even worth listening to.

Not to be rude, but your continued focusing on one verse and ignoring the rest of the context is childish.

John 6: 39 says nothing other than whoever God gave jesus, they can not be lost.

That supports eternal security, not that jesus only died for a certain group of people.

Your adding to the word.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In "the faith of Jesus Christ," neither the words "the" nor "of" are in the Greek text, they have been added by the translator.

If one looks. the same word is used for faith, and the word belief.

the only difference is one is noun form, one is a verb form.

It is odd to say having faithed in christ, but that is literally what it says.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eph 1:13 - In order to trust in Jesus, or hear the word preached and be able to discern the understanding of it, you would have to already be born of the Spirit because 1 Cor 2:14 says that the natural man, void of the Spirit, will not, and can not discern anything of a spiritual nature.

wrong

Scripture says the HS convicts of sin righteous and judgment, and romans 1 says man already knows he is rightly condemned.

1 cor speaks of other things of God. not our condemnation and need for salvation.

Don't you guys have any better arguments?

 

[royalscot]

The greek word would rather say proclaiming than witnessing. Do you believe that Jesus suffered in hell for any moment?

just for a reference point
3 And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."Luke 23

 

[royalscot]

No. Jesus did not go to Hades as a sinner but in authority.

hades, is an other name for death,
reference point.

43 And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."Luke 23