Israel.

[Pilgrimshope]

That's referring to the gentiles

“even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Hosea, I will call them my people, which were not my people; And her beloved, which was not beloved.

And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; There shall they be called the children of the living God.

Isaiah also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:24-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.”
‭‭Hosea‬ ‭1:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. “

it was already said to them when the messiah came telling them (all israel ) that God was thier father who believed in him . they didn’t recognize the lord when he came

“He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:11-12‬ ‭

“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:14‬ ‭

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26‬ ‭

“Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:1‬ ‭

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬

“that ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:9‬ ‭

tbise things are fulfilled in Christ and the gospel he told isreel ( whom he had rejected in the ot because of thier sins against him ) tbat he was calling them to be his children now in this new orimised covenant made with isreal and later extended through them to everyone else

 

[Yahshua]

If I may add on to this saints posting....notice that this is in the physical not spiritual. A physical Jerusalem.
Many or perhaps all the people before 1948 would not even dream of Israel becoming a state. Especially in one day.
Anti semitisim was even taught in churches with great zeal. Yet God's appointed time had come to pass.

If you read the history of it all, 1948 didn't happen in one day...and those who dreamed of it were the Zionists when they started the movement long before 1948. They initiated multiple actions that led to the 1948 declaration, including relocating people to the land over several years. They freely received as well as purchased military equipment from Britain and the USA. They trained a militia. And attacked peaceful villages in the land. All of this happened before 1948.

We need to stop romanticizing what these people did to force it to fit prophecy. The "nation born in a day" is most simply but most profoundly speaking about the resurrection of the dead when ALL of the kingdom of Israel, all tribes who have died in faith in Christ will be brought back to life, From Moses to Daniel, from Peter to James, and from those unknown souls who suffered pursecution during the middle ages; everyone in between. It is why Ezekiel 37 details that a vast army stands up. And we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them as the dead rise first. All receive the promise together.

Notice what the passage says: "Who hath heard such a thing? Who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? Or shall a nation be born at once? For as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children."

"bring forth" = to birth

The EARTH births the children of Zion.


Hebrew 12:22-23
But ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


The Messiah is firstborn of the dead..


1 Corinthians 15:20
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.


The passage about a nation being born in one day prophesies the resurrection of the dead in Christ: all tribes of Israel (both natural born and grafted in) who believe in Him. 1948 was not a fulfillment of the passage.

 

[Yahshua]

Being that judgement day occurs on the LAST DAY, there cannot be any days after it, and therefore, it is impossible there
be 1000 years of days after it. The last day is the end of days.

[Jhn 12:48 KJV] 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

[2Pe 2:9 KJV]
9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

2 Peter 3:8
Dear friends, don’t overlook this one fact: With the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day

Just a chapter and some verses removed from the passage you reference.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If you read the history of it all, 1948 didn't happen in one day...and those who dreamed of it were the Zionists when they started the movement long before 1948. They initiated multiple actions that led to the 1948 declaration, including relocating people to the land over several years. They freely received as well as purchased military equipment from Britain and the USA. They trained a militia. And attacked peaceful villages in the land. All of this happened before 1948.

We need to stop romanticizing what these people did to force it to fit prophecy. The "nation born in a day" is most simply but most profoundly speaking about the resurrection of the dead when ALL of the kingdom of Israel, all tribes who have died in faith in Christ will be brought back to life, From Moses to Daniel, from Peter to James, and from those unknown souls who suffered pursecution during the middle ages; everyone in between. It is why Ezekiel 37 details that a vast army stands up. And we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them as the dead rise first. All receive the promise together.

Notice what the passage says: "Who hath heard such a thing? Who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? Or shall a nation be born at once? For as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children."

"bring forth" = to birth

The EARTH births the children of Zion.


Hebrew 12:22-23
But ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


The Messiah is firstborn of the dead..


1 Corinthians 15:20
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.


The passage about a nation being born in one day prophesies the resurrection of the dead in Christ: all tribes of Israel (both natural born and grafted in) who believe in Him. 1948 was not a fulfillment of the passage.

I’ve been wondering lately if the nation of Israel today made by those you’re talking about after the war , is part of that strong delusion meant to convince people to believe a lie. Sort of an earthly counterfeit that really speaks more like a dragon than a lamb

 

[rogerg]

2 Peter 3:8
Dear friends, don’t overlook this one fact: With the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day

Yes, I've encountered that argument before regarding the last day and don't believe it valid in this case. I was going to post these verses to @Jackson129 but will post now instead. Notice the last trump, the seventh trump, and the seventh angel, below. The seventh trumpet sounds by the seventh angel, which signals Christ's return; it is also when eternal judgment is rendered. It is on the last day (as in one single day) at the end of time because the dead are raised, and all of the kingdoms of the earth become Christ's. It does not occur over a thousand-year period but in a single regular day - the last one.
The last trump of 1 Co 15:52 is the sounding of the seventh angel of Rev 10:6 and 11:15 - there are no further trumps sounded after that one, making it the last trump. The "not all sleep" 1Co 51:51, implies that while "not all sleep" (not dead), others do sleep (were dead), meaning that at the seventh trump, Christ returns to raise the saved incorruptible and to render judgment to the unsaved, as per Rev 11:18, but the seventh trump is also at the last day/end of time (Jhn 11:24, 1Co 15:52), so therefore all must be completed then.
I didn't do the best job of explaining this, but if you follow the verses below, you should see how they tie-in together



[Jhn 6:44 KJV]
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
[Jhn 11:24 KJV]
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

[1Co 15:51 - 52 KJV]

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

[Rev 8:2, 6 KJV]
2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. ...
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
[Rev 11:15 KJV]
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
[Rev 11:18 KJV]
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

[Rev 10:6-7 KJV]
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

[rogerg]

Just a chapter and some verses removed from the passage you reference.

I didn't "remove" anything. I chose not to include certain things I though not pertinent to the point at-hand because not everything can be included and a line has to be drawn somewhere, or the whole Bible will end-up being drawn into the post.

 

[Haidabo]

I do not believe I have done any sin to any of you.
I believe all I have done is said the truth to you about you.

But for the sake of righteousness and I love truth
if any of you believe that I have done any wrong to you
by all means send me a private message and
tell me the wrong I have committed concerning you.
And I will take it before the Lord. And if the Lord agrees with you
I will make it right by you as according to the Lord.

 

[Slimsumo]

There have been Jews in the land since the destruction of Jerusalem, when Rome changed the name to Syria Palestine....and then the inhabitants of the land were renamed to match the new name of the land. Then when muslims conquered the land they made the national religion if the land Islam.

If you take all scripture in context and synchonize it with recorded history, you will see that many Palestinians are decendants of the Jews...and as was prophesied, they would no longer remember who they were as a nation. The name Israel is remembered no longer.

We know that Zechariah 14 is a prophecy of the end times. So, ask yourself: which group of people today more perfectly fulfills verse 2 of Zechariah 14? The Israelis? or the Palestinians?

Total confusion. The palestinians are of Ishmael. Everyone knows this, including the muslims themselves.

 

[Haidabo]

Why do you spirits concern yourself
with that to which will not add anything
to your life? Why do you want to know things
that is of no merit to you?

 

[Jackson129]

Yes, I've encountered that argument before regarding the last day and don't believe it valid in this case. I was going to post these verses to @Jackson129 but will post now instead. Notice the last trump, the seventh trump, and the seventh angel, below. The seventh trumpet sounds by the seventh angel, which signals Christ's return; it is also when eternal judgment is rendered. It is on the last day (as in one single day) at the end of time because the dead are raised, and all of the kingdoms of the earth become Christ's. It does not occur over a thousand-year period but in a single regular day - the last one.
The last trump of 1 Co 15:52 is the sounding of the seventh angel of Rev 10:6 and 11:15 - there are no further trumps sounded after that one, making it the last trump. The "not all sleep" 1Co 51:51, implies that while "not all sleep" (not dead), others do sleep (were dead), meaning that at the seventh trump, Christ returns to raise the saved incorruptible and to render judgment to the unsaved, as per Rev 11:18, but the seventh trump is also at the last day/end of time (Jhn 11:24, 1Co 15:52), so therefore all must be completed then.
I didn't do the best job of explaining this, but if you follow the verses below, you should see how they tie-in together



[Jhn 6:44 KJV]
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
[Jhn 11:24 KJV]
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

[1Co 15:51 - 52 KJV]

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

[Rev 8:2, 6 KJV]
2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. ...
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
[Rev 11:15 KJV]
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
[Rev 11:18 KJV]
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

[Rev 10:6-7 KJV]
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Alot of this stems from our understanding of time. We exist in the temperal realm as of right now. When we are in heaven or the presence of God we exist in the eternal realm. In the eternal realm there is only one everlasting day. There isint clocks you dont go to work at 6am. Its a very hard concept for the human mind to wrap its self around. So after Jesus returns there is just one existing day. That goes on and on forever. However with Satan in a black hole then being let out to deceive the nations from gog to magog one last time before fire rains down on all creation and the great white throne judgment takes place. We are exisisting for some amount of time as we understand it between those two events.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The Messiah is firstborn of the dead..

Christ is also the firstborn of God who inherited all of the promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. And btw firstfruits is not the same thing as firstborn.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Total confusion. The palestinians are of Ishmael. Everyone knows this, including the muslims themselves.

Everyone knows fallacy

 

[rogerg]

Alot of this stems from our understanding of time. We exist in the temperal realm as of right now. When we are in heaven or the presence of God we exist in the eternal realm. In the eternal realm there is only one everlasting day. There isint clocks you dont go to work at 6am. Its a very hard concept for the human mind to wrap its self around. So after Jesus returns there is just one existing day. That goes on and on forever. However with Satan in a black hole then being let out to deceive the nations from gog to magog one last time before fire rains down on all creation and the great white throne judgment takes place. We are exisisting for some amount of time as we understand it between those two events.

But wasn't your point the 1000 years - that it will happen after Christ's return? Need to have the passage of actual time for the 1000 years to transpire - the same with the seven years - for that, it cannot be within one unending, everlasting day (if I understand you correctly). As I tried to demonstrate in my post to you and @Yahshua, that after Christ's return there will be time no more and the mystery of God will then be finished. I believe there is a 1000-year period described in the Bible, but that it represents a symbolic, not literal length of time. I believe it started at Pentecost and will end immediately prior to, or upon, Christ's return, the same with the seven years.
Anyway, I respect your POV in this matter - it's a complex subject, and I realize that many, many people see it the same way that you and @Yahshua do. So, given its complexity, and the strong feelings on both sides of the issue, this thread is probably not the best nor appropriate one to delve into it in - it would be off-topic yet could end-up dominating it.

 

[Yahshua]

I’ve been wondering lately if the nation of Israel today made by those you’re talking about after the war , is part of that strong delusion meant to convince people to believe a lie. Sort of an earthly counterfeit that really speaks more like a dragon than a lamb

I fully believe it.

Two horns like a lamb (i.e., appearing innocent) but speaks like a dragon. Obsessed with conquering that land. No reverence for the Messiah (new covenant). No obedience to the commandments (first covenant). Blindly funded by the nations of the world as they submit to it to the detriment of their own needs. And the Christian majority is completely enamored with them.

 

[GWH]

All Christians constitute spiritual Israel, because the circumcision that counts is of the heart,
by the Spirit (Rom. 2:29).

God's covenantal promise of blessing/salvation applies to all who have faith in God,
whereby they become spiritual descendants of Abraham (Rom. 4:7-18).

How tragic and ironic it is that so many physical descendants of Abraham/members of Israel reject Christ's atonement
and are cut off from the tree of life while many physical Gentiles believe and become spiritual Jews/Israel (Rom. 9:1-8, 11:13-24).

 

[Leastofall]

I’ve been wondering lately if the nation of Israel today made by those you’re talking about after the war , is part of that strong delusion meant to convince people to believe a lie. Sort of an earthly counterfeit that really speaks more like a dragon than a lamb

Israel speaks more like a lion than a lamb.
So by your understanding of scripture 1948 was a forced event? That Satan can duplicate even the very words in the prophecies?
That he would go so far as to mimic the surrounding enemies of Israel that are mentioned in scripture.
That Israel against all odds defeated the opposing enemies when they came to rebuild.
That the barren waste land has not prospered as the scriptures for tell. That the third temple which is scriptural and is waiting to be built is all by Satan's hand? That once again anti semitisim is at a all time high?
And you wonder if it's part of the delusion. Some sort of counterfeit.
I really can't believe your saying this. There have been far more prophecies fulfilled than just 1948. Open your eyes.
Has Israel become that cup of trembling in just the past 2 years.
I think one has to be delusional not to consider the events after 1948.

 

[Yahshua]

I didn't "remove" anything. I chose not to include certain things I though not pertinent to the point at-hand because not everything can be included and a line has to be drawn somewhere, or the whole Bible will end-up being drawn into the post.

Not "removed" meaning "you dropped the verse". Removed as in relationally, like when one says their cousin was "twice removed". I meant the passage was just a chapter and a few verses away from the one you referenced. I'll speak plainly from now on since it can read differently on text.

-----

Yes, I've encountered that argument before regarding the last day and don't believe it valid in this case. I was going to post these verses to @Jackson129 but will post now instead. Notice the last trump, the seventh trump, and the seventh angel, below. The seventh trumpet sounds by the seventh angel, which signals Christ's return; it is also when eternal judgment is rendered. It is on the last day (as in one single day) at the end of time because the dead are raised, and all of the kingdoms of the earth become Christ's. It does not occur over a thousand-year period but in a single regular day - the last one.
The last trump of 1 Co 15:52 is the sounding of the seventh angel of Rev 10:6 and 11:15 - there are no further trumps sounded after that one, making it the last trump. The "not all sleep" 1Co 51:51, implies that while "not all sleep" (not dead), others do sleep (were dead), meaning that at the seventh trump, Christ returns to raise the saved incorruptible and to render judgment to the unsaved, as per Rev 11:18, but the seventh trump is also at the last day/end of time (Jhn 11:24, 1Co 15:52), so therefore all must be completed then.
I didn't do the best job of explaining this, but if you follow the verses below, you should see how they tie-in together



[Jhn 6:44 KJV]
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
[Jhn 11:24 KJV]
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

[1Co 15:51 - 52 KJV]

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

[Rev 8:2, 6 KJV]
2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. ...
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
[Rev 11:15 KJV]
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
[Rev 11:18 KJV]
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

[Rev 10:6-7 KJV]
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

It reads as if you believe that when Christ appears, it's the end of the story; that evil is destroyed and "everlasting" begins...but based on scripture and the eschatological outline, that's not yet the end. The Messiah reigns for 1000 years...


Revelation 20:7
When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.


...after 1000 years, satan is freed again for a final battle. Where does he get the army from? From the second resurrection: the resurrection of the unjust. There are two resurrections: one for the just (those "in christ") and one of the unjust.


Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.

Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Revelation 20:5
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.


We're given temporal markers of a start point and an end point, establishing this is a specific timeframe. The start of the 1000 years begins with Messiah resurrecting the just (John 6:44; John 11:24; 1 Corinthians 15:51; Revelation 11:15-18), and the 1000 years ends with the resurrection of the unjust, where satan is essentially freed to desceive again. Why? because there are people alive again who would believe him.

Two resurrections.

 

[Mem]

All Christians constitute spiritual Israel, because the circumcision that counts is of the heart,
by the Spirit (Rom. 2:29).

God's covenantal promise of blessing/salvation applies to all who have faith in God,
whereby they become spiritual descendants of Abraham (Rom. 4:7-18).

How tragic and ironic it is that so many physical descendants of Abraham/members of Israel reject Christ's atonement
and are cut off from the tree of life while many physical Gentiles believe and become spiritual Jews/Israel (Rom. 9:1-8, 11:13-24).

grafting requires a cutting both of the root and the branches. It is a necessity to cut off the natural branch in order to graft in the wild branch. In the context of God's sovereign choice, Romans9:5 speaks to the human descendants of Christ. Is it an impossibility that the statement, "Not all Israel are Israel," is speaking more toward the inclusiveness of this ingrafting than toward those cut away? It seems to me the emphasis is on those that constitute Israel, those that hope in God being children of the promise.

Israel doesn't stop being Israel, but it is expanded.

 

[GWH]

grafting requires a cutting both of the root and the branches. It is a necessity to cut off the natural branch in order to graft in the wild branch. In the context of God's sovereign choice, Romans9:5 speaks to the human descendants of Christ. Is it an impossibility that the statement, "Not all Israel are Israel," is speaking more toward the inclusiveness of this ingrafting than toward those cut away? It seems to me the emphasis is on those that constitute Israel, those that hope in God being children of the promise.

Israel doesn't stop being Israel, but it is expanded.

You may be right regarding grafting of physical trees, but the gist of Romans 11 is that both believing Jews and Gentiles are saved,
which means partakers of the tree of life at last (Rev. 2:7, 22:2, 14-19).

 

[Yahshua]

Total confusion. The palestinians are of Ishmael. Everyone knows this, including the muslims themselves.

...and satan has deceived the whole world, so as a policy, I'd stay away from what the majority thinks...or at least give it a bombastic side eye until you confirm it with proof. All it takes is a little study of recorded history to see, but unfortunately, most don't care to. The poor never left the land of Judea when the city of Jerusalem was destroyed. They couldn't afford to. Most incorrectly conclude that all the jews left the entire land of Judea because of one city's destruction and never returned until the 1900s. This just isn't proven out. Jews weren't barred from the whole of Judea, just Jerusalem...and only for a short time until the Muslim Caliph granted them the right to return to the land.

Yes, the muslims were the allies of the Jews. They sheltered and protected the Jews when the Christians were persecuting and killing them under the Pope's leadership (i.e. holy roman empire).