Israel.

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ThereRoseaLamb said:
Have you read the Bible? Do you just ignore major parts you don't like?
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I know the bible very well. Much better than you do. Why are you ignoring Paul's words in Galatians 3:16? All of the promises to Abraham were to the singular seed Christ, not many seeds (descendents).

For all the promises of God are in [Christ] yea and in him Amen unto the glory of God through us. 2 Corinthians 1:20​
 
Gideon300 said:
There are some who doubt the role of Israel in God's plan and purpose. If that is so, perhaps you can explain this from the book of Revelation.
Revelation 7:3-8
“Do not harm the land or sea or trees until we have placed a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”

And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel:

From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000, from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000, from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000, from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, and from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

Also Romans 11: 25 & 26.
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion; He will remove godlessness from Jacob.

These things are obviously future. God is not done with Israel yet.

It is noteworthy that the tribe of Dan is not included in the 144,000. God rejected Dan because they allied themselves with the Philistines instead of conquering them as God had commanded. That compromise caused great trouble for Israel later on. We do well not to compromise with God's enemies.
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Thanks Gideon300, for your post about the 144,000 of the tribes of Israel, and for your post about Romans 11.

The Gentiles who are saved have become a part of the term 'Israel' just as the Jews who are saved are a part of the term Israel. Therefore, all are included in the 144,000, which is a figurative number describing all those who are saved from the Jews and from the Gentiles. In much the same way, the two witnesses in the same book of Revelation are not just two individuals but are a picture of the believers as a group. The number two emphasizes witness. They receive power and prophesy meaning that they share the testimony of Jesus. That is what happens to all believers: "ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses ". The book of Revelation, like all of the Bible, is to be interpreted as a parable is interpreted (Psalm 78:1-2, Mark 4:34).

The scripture you mention in Romans 11 says: ""blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
"
This scripure tells us that only part of the cultural Jews will be saved, and that is what is meant by part being hardened, so part are saved that are not hardened. This is said to be the case all the way up to the time the last Gentile in Christ is saved. Only a part of the Gentiles are saved as well. Some Gentiles believe and some don't. At that point, when part of the cultural Jews are saved, and part of the cultural Gentiles are saved (right up to the very last Gentile to be saved is saved), then we are all done with the scenario. We know that is the case because the verse you gave says: "And so all Israel shall be saved ". The word 'so' means 'in this way, in this manner'. What way is that? The way that has just been stated in the verses, saying that part of the Jews and part of the Gentiles will be saved. That is the manner. It says that in this way all of Israel will be saved. 'All of Israel' is now talking about all true believers, Jews and Gentiles. To bolster this the scripture then gives the gospel saying that Jesus comes from heaven and turns ungodliness away from the believers. This is exactly a picture of when Jesus came from heaven (Zion) to go to the cross to turn all who believe (figuratively described as Jacob) from sin. You see Jacob's story, and how he would not let go of God until he blessed him, is a picture of all true believers.

Notice what the verse in Romans is not saying. It is not saying and THEN all cultural Jews will be saved. It uses the word SO, not THEN. The word so means IN THIS MANNER. That is the manner of part of the Jews and part of the Gentiles and that's all. It uses the manner of Jesus coming from heaven to go to the cross to turn us believers all from sin.
 
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ThereRoseaLamb said:
God made an everlasting, unconditional covenant with Abraham. He promised a land, He named the borders. Either God keeps His promises or He doesn't. That simple.
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He made it to Abraham and his seed.
Esau is also the seed of Abraham.
Does not the decedents of Esau and Jacob
occupy that land?

And now they are
trying to drive each other out
of the land that
God promised to them.
 
I have listened to countless
TV Christians over the years
claim all these Muslim and Jews
being converted and coming to Christ.
I have been to countless
Christian churches.
Never met not one
Muslim or Jew in any of them.

And only very few
on Christian TV.

I believe most of all that
is just pure fabrication and propaganda.
These Christian
TV preachers will have you
believe all the conversions
in Muslim countries and Israel.

I say that is all malarkey.
Just fabrication, smoke and mirrors.
 
ThereRoseaLamb said:
Good afternoon troll number 2. Who was the land promised to?
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I would suggest you stop
idolizing and worshiping the Jews.
How did that happen to you?
Did it come from Christian TV?
Im serious
I would like to know
how that happened to you.
 
Haidabo said:
I have listened to countless
TV Christians over the years
claim all these Muslim and Jews
being converted and coming to Christ.
I have been to countless
Christian churches.
Never met not one
Muslim or Jew in any of them.

And only very few
on Christian TV.

I believe most of all that
is just pure fabrication and propaganda.
These Christian
TV preachers will have you
believe all the conversions
in Muslim countries and Israel.

I say that is all malarkey.
Just fabrication, smoke and mirrors.
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So what you're saying is God is unable to save Jews and Muslims. Anyone else He can't save? What about Mormons? Can He save a Mormon? Or a Buddhist? Wow, that's a hard one. Maybe an agnostic? Can He save one of them? Probably not an atheist though, that's a hard one.
 
ThereRoseaLamb said:
So what you're saying is God is unable to save Jews and Muslims. Anyone else He can't save? What about Mormons? Can He save a Mormon? Or a Buddhist? Wow, that's a hard one. Maybe an agnostic? Can He save one of them? Probably not an atheist though, that's a hard one.
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I am saying
that you have a very unhealthy infatuation
with the Jewish people.

That is what I am saying.

Unless you were born a Jew.
Then I would say it is par for the course.
 
Haidabo said:
I am saying
that you have a very unhealthy infatuation
with he Jewish people.

That is what I am saying.
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Well I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of grace, of covenants, and the Bible as a whole. I'd say you have the worse problem.
 
ThereRoseaLamb said:
Well I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of grace, of covenants, and the Bible as a whole. I'd say you have the worse problem.
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I really do not concern myself with all the different doctrines and interpretations of it.
I only adhere to the doctrine of Christ.
 
NeutralZone said:
Leastofall:

According to scripture, they, as a people, rejected Jesus as the Messiah. In fact, when Pilate told the crowd that they had the choice of setting either Jesus free or else set free Barabbas, a notorious criminal, notice below who the common people decided to save. Focus on the words bolded in red:

Matthew 27:15
Now from festival to festival, it was the custom of the governor to release a prisoner to the crowd, whomever they wanted.

Matthew 27:16
Just at that time they were holding a notorious prisoner called Bar·abʹbas.

Matthew 27:17
So when they were gathered together, Pilate said to them: “Which one do you want me to release to you, Bar·abʹbas or Jesus the so-called Christ?”


Matthew 27:20
But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowds to ask for Bar·abʹbas, but to have Jesus put to death.

Matthew 27:21
In response the governor said to them: “Which of the two do you want me to release to you?” They said: “Bar·abʹbas.”

Matthew 27:22
Pilate said to them: “What, then, should I do with Jesus the so-called Christ?” They all said: “To the stake with him!”

Matthew 27:23
He said: “Why? What bad thing did he do?” Still they kept shouting out all the more: “To the stake with him!”

Matthew 27:24
Seeing that it did no good but, rather, an uproar was arising, Pilate took water and washed his hands before the crowd, saying: “I am innocent of the blood of this man. You yourselves must see to it.”

Matthew 27:25
At that all the people said in answer: “Let his blood come upon us and upon our children.”


Now, run that by me again that only the Pharisees and Satan the Devil wanted Jesus dead.
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Gideon300 said:
How many people were at the trial? All of Israel? I don't think so. A week before, the streets were lined with people shouting Hosanna. The trial was at night. That was illegal in those days. Very few people came out at night - it was not safe. The authorities made sure that only those they could rely on to reject Jesus were there.

Sure, a good many Israelites rejected Jesus. Many also had experienced miracles of healing and deliverance.
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Gideon300:

You are grasping at straws. Scripture makes it clear that the Jews, as a people, have been rejected by the Almighty. They, as a people, have a long, sordid history of disobeying Jehovah and destroying prophets sent to them. Jesus Christ, the Son of Jehovah, said the following regarding the Jews as a people:



Matthew 21:42
Jesus said to them: “Did you never read in the Scriptures, ‘The stone that the builders rejected, this has become the chief cornerstone. This has come from Jehovah, and it is marvelous in our eyes’?

Matthew 21:43
This is why I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.


Matthew 23:1
Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying:

Matthew 23:37
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it.

Matthew 23:38
Look! Your house is abandoned to you.

Matthew 23:39
For I say to you, you will by no means see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name!’”


Notice Matthew 21:43 where Jesus made it clear that the kingdom of Almighty God Jehovah would be taken from the Jews. He didn't say it would be taken only from those who would later show up at his trial and execution. Those events had not even occurred at the time he told the crowd that God's kingdom would be taken from the Jews.

Now, notice Matthew 23:37. When Jesus said "Jerusalem, Jerusalem," he was referring to the entire society of Jews. He made no distinction between who would later show up for his trial and crucifixion and who did not. The decision had already been made by Jehovah to abandon the entire society of Jews BEFORE they had Jesus tried and executed. At Matthew 23:38, Jesus told them "Your house is abandoned to you."


Notice the word "is" at Matthew 23:38. That means at the time Jesus said it, the deed had already been done. So if you want to keep insisting that the Jews are still the chosen people of the Abrahamic God despite what scripture says, go ahead. Nobody's stopping you.

You--along with all those arguing that the Jews, as a group, are still God's chosen people--have been debunked by scripture. They lost that position of being chosen people a long, long time ago.
 
ThereRoseaLamb said:
I worship one Jew, He was a rabbi, you may have heard of Him. Jesus.
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That Jew you worship is the same Jew that would not accept the woman at Jacob's Well as Jewish. She had more right to be considered Jewish than any person today claiming to be Jewish.
 
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