Israel.

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I think this some high level cognitive dissonance, they need to be saved but God has blinded them for over 2000 years.

Yes he did to fulfill his plan for Jesus to die on the cross and be sent to all because ofnthier rejection of him . But many who rejected Jesus at first , afterwards converted like peters first sermon after pentocost about 3000 converted that day

Israel is not excluded they just aren’t the special and only ones anymore . anyone jew or gentile who believes the gospel now has a covenant with god and are all the same jew or gentile

as gentiles we need to remember always the new covenant was made with the house of Israel not with gentiles alone but with Israel and then gentiles we’re included with them when it was sent to them

no one is excluded because ofnthier flesh either ignore israelite flesh or gentile flesh means nothing and no one’s accepted based on it either .

at he one and only factor is Jesus and our response to him that’s gods chosen and all who are in him be it a jew or a gentile one people who were two long long ago


“and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:13-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
"The nation" is and always will be the body of believers.
To insist a secular modern nation is the apple of God's eye is to dismiss and replace believers in Christ.
Also you hit on an issue on this thread causing a lot of conflicted thinking .

When someone says “ Israel”

Some are talking about the people and others are talking about the land on this earth we’ve created and renamed as “israel “ after the war
 
I’d never heard that it was already restored before apparently the world ended already and the new creation ruled by righteousness is here …… I thought Gods plan was better than a world full of war and death and sorrow and deceptions and “great delusions “

suprised they haven’t made thier weapons into plowshares yet and rule by peace like it says instead they keep stockpiling rockets and missles and nuclear warheads seems more worldly than divine


Jerusalem may be captured when the antichrist stops the daily sacrifices, but it doesn't mean it is destroyed and left desolate. Jesus returns in time to prevent its utter destruction at Armageddon. Also, all the Jews that will pay attention to what the Bible says will run to the mountains and be kept safe. And the Bible says that Jesus will rule from Jerusalem during the Millennial age.

So sorry Jew-haters! Jerusalem will still be around and the people too. :)


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The way I see the Dome of the Rock, it's just a placeholder so that the antichrist knows where to have the third Jewish temple rebuilt.

God never talked about restoring the third Jewish temple. He doesn't care about that. So you've misunderstood what the Bible said. :)


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or you have , one or the other ….God knows
 
Jerusalem may be captured when the antichrist stops the daily sacrifices, but it doesn't mean it is destroyed and left desolate. Jesus returns in time to prevent its utter destruction at Armageddon. Also, all the Jews that will pay attention to what the Bible says will run to the mountains and be kept safe. And the Bible says that Jesus will rule from Jerusalem during the Millennial age.

So sorry Jew-haters! Jerusalem will still be around and the people too. :)


🚞

:giggle:
Signed,
Tim La Haye & Jerry B. Jenkins.
 
Jerusalem may be captured when the antichrist stops the daily sacrifices, but it doesn't mean it is destroyed and left desolate. Jesus returns in time to prevent its utter destruction at Armageddon. Also, all the Jews that will pay attention to what the Bible says will run to the mountains and be kept safe. And the Bible says that Jesus will rule from Jerusalem during the Millennial age.

So sorry Jew-haters! Jerusalem will still be around and the people too. :)


🚞

Sorry Christ-hater, but this isn't an ancient time when people can flee somewhere and hide without being detected by satellites, aircraft, drones, etc
 
Jerusalem may be captured when the antichrist stops the daily sacrifices, but it doesn't mean it is destroyed and left desolate. Jesus returns in time to prevent its utter destruction at Armageddon. Also, all the Jews that will pay attention to what the Bible says will run to the mountains and be kept safe. And the Bible says that Jesus will rule from Jerusalem during the Millennial age.

So sorry Jew-haters! Jerusalem will still be around and the people too. :)


🚞
Yeah it will come down from heaven to a new earth …
So again, I am quoting the Bible. That is how God feels toward Israel. He said it will never cease to be a nation before me. Please look deeper into this.

i have.I’ve seen this

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left. …The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5-6, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and I luv e seen this

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭51:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭66:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You I don’t think are understanding what I’m saying and think it’s “ anti Israel “ ot isn’t at all . If you follow through the prophets Israel’s promises are the New Testament ones aboit a new earth and heaven to come and that he’s promised that israel will be restored forever in the new creation … the eternal one after this earth is destroyed .

remember sister Peter was an Israelite the New Testament writers all were and look where he’s directing the hope of a new beginning . It’s not at this earth or any hoe for it ….but at gods promises of a new and perfect world to come those things I’m quoting given tomisrwel n the prophets

“knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:3-4, 9-11, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


If you would take time to read some of those scriptures you might notice it’s glorious for israel and gentile alike and how it’s based on his promises to them regarding the new creation he promised to make the eternal one that comes forth here

this the restoration of all things including first and foremost Jerusalem

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

…And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; and had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: on the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass. And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; the fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst. And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass. And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-2, 10-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The New Testament promises are Israel’s fulfillment and now gentiles are included with them through Christ

They’ll be restored just like the neee testament explains on a new earth god promised them in the ot and included everyone else in the nt
 
Jerusalem may be captured when the antichrist stops the daily sacrifices, but it doesn't mean it is destroyed and left desolate. Jesus returns in time to prevent its utter destruction at Armageddon. Also, all the Jews that will pay attention to what the Bible says will run to the mountains and be kept safe. And the Bible says that Jesus will rule from Jerusalem during the Millennial age.

So sorry Jew-haters! Jerusalem will still be around and the people too. :)


🚞
“but it doesn't mean it is destroyed and left desolate.”

“And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭9:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Rome destroyed the city and temple in 70 . When this happened

“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:20-22‬ ‭

some are looking at the wrong world for gods city still looking here as if it’s where gods eternal city will be set up

“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Instead of looking to his promises of the eternal things to come forth

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭

they aren’t realizing this is going to happen first

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:10‬ ‭

then israel and all things will be restored on a new and better earth
 
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but it doesn't mean it is destroyed and left desolate.

“And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭9:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Rome destroyed the city and temple in 70 . When this happened

“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:20-22‬ ‭

some are looking at the wrong world for gods city still looking here as if it’s where gods eternal city will be set up

“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Instead of looking to his promises of the eternal things to come forth

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭

they aren’t realizing this is going to happen first

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:10‬ ‭

then israel and all things will be restored on a new and better earth

I do not think that is scripture is stating, but that is okay.

I believe all things were already restored in Christ.
 
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Those who take a literal approach to the promises of the Old Testament believe that the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will be restored to a right relationship with God and receive the fulfillment of the covenants. Those who advocate replacement theology basically affirm that the Church has completely replaced Israel and will inherit God’s promises to Israel; the covenants, then, will be fulfilled only in a spiritual sense. In other words, replacement theology teaches that Israel will not inherit the actual land of Israel; the Church is the “new Israel,” and ethnic Israel is forever excluded from the promises—the Jews will not inherit the Promised Land as Jews per se.

Here's the difference we are arguing about.

The passages that speak of future Israel are difficult to view as figurative for the Church. The classic text (Romans 11:16–24) depicts Israel as distinct from the Church: the “natural branches” are the Jews, and the “wild branches” are the Gentiles. The “olive tree” is the collective people of God. The “natural branches” (Jews) are “cut off” the tree for unbelief, and the “wild branches” (believing Gentiles) are grafted in. This has the effect of making the Jews “jealous” and then drawing them to faith in Christ, so they might be “grafted in” again and receive their promised inheritance. The “natural branches” are still distinct from the “wild branches,” so that God’s covenant with His people is literally fulfilled. Romans 11:26–29, citing Isaiah 59:20–21; 27:9; Jeremiah 31:33–34, says:

“And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: ‘The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.’ As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.”

Here, Paul emphasizes the “irrevocable” nature of Israel’s calling as a nation (see also Romans 11:12). Isaiah predicted that a “remnant” of Israel would one day “be called the Holy People, the Redeemed of the LORD” (Isaiah 62:12). Regardless of Israel’s current state of unbelief, a future remnant will in fact repent and fulfill their calling to establish righteousness by faith (Romans 10:1–8; 11:5). This conversion will coincide with the fulfillment of Moses’ prediction of Israel’s permanent restoration to the land (Deuteronomy 30:1–10).

We don't know where we stand as far as God's time clock. This may be the generation.

When Paul says Israel will be “saved” in Romans 11:26, he refers to their deliverance from sin (verse 27) as they accept the Savior, their Messiah, in the end times. Moses said, “The Lord your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live” (Deuteronomy 30:6). Israel’s physical inheritance of the land promised to Abraham will be an integral part of God’s ultimate plan (Deuteronomy 30:3–5).

After Israel is spiritually restored, Christ will establish His millennial kingdom on earth. The symbolic “dry bones” of Ezekiel’s vision will be brought together, covered with flesh, and miraculously resuscitated (Ezekiel 37:1–14). As God promised, the salvation of Israel will involve both a spiritual awakening and a geographical home: “I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land” (Ezekiel 37:14).

Further insight here https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/israel-saved-romans-11/
Yes, obvious, you are a student of the Word! Great synopsis! Praise the Lord!!!
 
I do not think that is scripture is stating, but that is okay.

I believe all things were already restored in Christ.

Amen . it’s definately okay people think different things when looking at a book with tens of thousands of words in it . It shouldn’t make enemies oir of Christians because we don’t agree on every detail of the entire Bible and every subject someone thinks of

the vast majority of people who come here negating the trolls who come to harass believers , most believe that Jesus is the Christ the son of God who suffered and died for our sins and rose up again to life for our justification

were so quick to judge and condemn others and so slow to see our own flaws both parties can’t survive without mercy
 
You're pre-tribbing Jew-hater??? :ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:


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“Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son. But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be our's. And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard.

What shall therefore the Lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭12:6-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

before you reject that

Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death. Jesus therefore walked no more openly among the Jews; but went thence unto a country near to the wilderness, into a city called Ephraim, and there continued with his disciples.”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:52-54‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But Saul ( Paul ) increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ. And after that many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭9:22-23‬ ‭

For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭26:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Look what set them off against Stephen

When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.


Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, and cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:54-60‬ ‭

If you look for that now in the bi le you’ll see it everywhere on the gospel and acts and even read about it in the epistles . How the Jews were the main opponents to Christianity along with the rest of the world

Some Jews will believe and be saved like this

“And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The rest will reject Jesus like some gentiles also will do who don’t believe . It’s only bekievers who will be saved jew or gentile only the believers in Christ and the gospel
 
Tim La Haye was probably too drunk on the whore of Babylon's wine to write the left behind books by himself.

I don't know anything about La Haye, other than he wrote books. But I've seen no evidence to say he wasn't a born again believer. I'd be careful about what I said about a Christian brother. That's quite an accusation.
 
No one on our side has ever said Jews don't need to be saved. Just stating that again in case you missed it.
A lot of this mess comes from people imagining elect or chosen means saved. There is only one way to be saved and that is by the blood of Jesus and both jew and gentile must believe the gospel.
You can be part of God's chosen people and still die as a lost man. Many such cases. King Saul being a great example, who wasn't only part of the elect nation of Israel but was also chosen to be the King of Israel and still that did not matter because He disobeyed God.
They can see this in the church, but with Israel the mind is just blinded to it. You can be a church goer and not be saved.

All we are saying is this:

Romans 11:28
As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,

This one verse should settle the debate once and for all. This is talking about the Israel after the flesh, who are enemies because they don't believe the Gospel and in many cases are hateful towards Christians, but despite this they are still loved on account of the patriarchs to whom the promises were given, because God's gifts and calling is irrevocable.
This cannot be talking about 'spiritual Israel' because those of us in Christ are not enemies of the Gospel.

For those who disagree with what I wrote, I would like to hear a rebuttal or an alternative interpretation of Romans 11:28? What else could it possibly mean?
 
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