Israel Declares War

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Smoke said:
"Do you condemn Hamas' attack on Oct 7th?!"
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I condemn the terrorist attack and slaughter of innocent Jewish civilians and taking of hostages.


Smoke said:
"She is just collateral damage."
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Baloney! Hamas went door to door and butchered families. Children in their beds. That was their target and intent. It is NOT Israels intent to kill innocent people. They have sent flyers, they have given people time to get out. If innocent people are dying blame the culprits, HAMAS!

Smoke said:
"War is a terrible thing. So next time someone kicks you out of your house, don't fight for it back. Let them have it."
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They started it! They could live in peace, they refuse. From the river to the sea means no Jews!! Hamas doesn't care and they don't want peace. When you terrorize, expect for people to retaliate and defend their homeland and people. Go over to FB almost all the feeds are full of murder Jews. This isn't about land or they would have made peace like others did. This is about hate for the Jews.
 
hornetguy said:
So what is your solution for stopping these terrorists? harsh words?
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A more discriminate way of targeting Hamas. I'm not a general nor do I need to be one to know that killing children should ever be considered. Do you think killing more children than terrorists is an effective strategy?
 
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ThereRoseaLamb said:
It is NOT Israels intent to kill innocent people.
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Israel knows that when they target Hamas with airstrikes, they are going to also be targeting and killing more civilian children than actual Hamas terrorists. For several days after the Oct 7th Hamas massacre, Israel bombed the garbage out of Gaza. No warnings to the civilians to evacuate whatsoever. After that, they did advise civilians to go south and gave them one of two routes to go where they will be safe. One of the routes was blown up and killed civilians. After about 700,000 Palestinians left, Hamas started preventing civilians from leaving their homes causing them to be sitting ducks in their homes because Israel doesn't care and will blow them up regardless.

ThereRoseaLamb said:
They started it! They could live in peace, they refuse. From the river to the sea means no Jews!! Hamas doesn't care and they don't want peace. When you terrorize, expect for people to retaliate and defend their homeland and people. Go over to FB almost all the feeds are full of murder Jews. This isn't about land or they would have made peace like others did. This is about hate for the Jews.
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As stated previously, 47.3% of Palestinians are under 18. The civilians didn't start anything. They are children for goodness sakes! Collective punishment on these babies is a crime against humanity. I have no issue will them going after Hamas. In fact, I hope Hamas is wiped off the earth... just don't wipe out the children in the process.
 
Magenta said:
Your rhetoric really goes too far at times.
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I'm trying to get a number of how many civilians is too many for people who are in support of bombing Gaza. It's clear people think it's acceptable under the present conditions. So if there isn't a specific number or even a ballpark of how many Palestinian civilians is too many to continue to blow up, then clearly Israel truly is free to kill however many they want.
 
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Needevidence said:
Rubbish - Palestinian agreed to the Oslo agreement - but Israel only spoke words while they continued their settlements and stealing further land and indiscriminate killing, torture and detention of tens of thousands of Palestinians, including children because they threw stones and are locked away for years / decades without any trial. Thats why Palestinians kidnap Israelis as barging power.


Their MAP has been draw long time ago - they have increased continuously.

Main media control.
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NOPE!

https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/oslo-accordsoslo-process

On September 9, Israel and the PLO exchanged letters of mutual recognition to precede the official signing of an agreement. In his letter to Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, PLO Chairman Yasir Arafat recognized Israel’s right to exist “in peace and security.” Arafat renounced “the use of terrorism and other acts of violence.” Arafat also pledged to revoke articles in the Palestinian National Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist. In a response to Arafat’s letter, Rabin confirmed that “in light of the PLO commitments included in your letter, the Government of Israel has decided to recognize the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people and commence negotiations with the PLO within the Middle East peace process.”

Over the next six years a series of further interim agreements were signed, most significantly the September 1995 Oslo II Agreement and the October 1998 Wye River Memorandum. Following the implementation of these agreements, by September 2000, over 85 percent of the Gaza Strip and 39.7 percent of the West Bank were under the control of the Palestinian Authority. Ninety-nine percent of the Palestinian population resided under the Palestinian Authority’s jurisdiction.

Public opinion polls showed that the negotiations were supported by the majority of Israelis.
In November 1995, Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by an Israeli anti-Oslo activist.
Throughout the interim period, Palestinian terrorist groups such as Hamas, Islamic Jihad and others, conducted scores of terrorist attacks against Israeli civilian targets.
Over the decades, Israelis grew increasingly disenchanted with the Palestinian Authority who did little-to-nothing to control terrorist organizations, and continued to enable the spread of anti-Israel and anti-Semitic propaganda.
While the Oslo timeline never came to fruition, the lasting legacy of Oslo remains the establishment of the Palestinian Authority and direct negotiations between the State of Israel and the Palestinians.
 
Smoke said:
I'm trying to get a number of how many civilians is too many for people who are in support of bombing Gaza. It's clear people think it's acceptable under the present conditions. So if there isn't a specific number or even a ballpark of how many Palestinian civilians is too many to continue to blow up, then clearly Israel truly is free to kill however many they want.
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The fact that you insist on "Israel wants to kill civilians" shows a prejudice and a wanton disregard for the fact that
Hamas uses women, children, and "innocent" civilians as human shields specifically to manipulate people like you!
 
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Magenta said:
Hamas uses civilians and children as human shields for the very reasons people here -and elsewhere- kvetch about.
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I agree. Hamas loves that Israel is taking the bait and also taking the moral high ground away from Israel. What better way to take the focus of Oct 7th than to show that Israel doesn't claim about civilian life either? This is great recruiting material for Hamas.
 
Smoke said:
I'm trying to get a number of how many civilians is too many for people who are in support of bombing Gaza. It's clear people think it's acceptable under the present conditions. So if there isn't a specific number or even a ballpark of how many Palestinian civilians is too many to continue to blow up, then clearly Israel truly is free to kill however many they want.
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Now you sound like Omar. So it's a no for you. Never. No country is allowed to defend their people. Doesn't matter who butchers them. Come on in and we'll open the door for you. Just shut up and hope they don't do it again.
 
Magenta said:
The fact that you insist on "Israel wants to kill civilians" shows a prejudice and a total disregard for the fact that
Hamas uses women, children, and "innocent" civilians as human shields specifically to manipulate people like you!
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I've said that "targeting" Hamas also means you are targeting children when you know they are in the same targeted area.

Think of it like chemotherapy. What does chemotherapy do? It kills fast-growing cells rapidly, right? It is effective at targeting cancer cells because cancer cells are fast-growing. However, chemo also kills good cells with it. When you airstrike (use chemo) and it's killing more good cells (civilians) than cancer cells (Hamas), you are more than likely getting "systemic chemo" (indiscriminate) than "regional chemo" (discriminate). I am opposed to systemic chemo and in favor of regional chemo.
 
ThereRoseaLamb said:
Now you sound like Omar. So it's a no for you. Never. No country is allowed to defend their people. Doesn't matter who butchers them. Come on in and we'll open the door for you. Just shut up and hope they don't do it again.
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No country should be allowed to "defend" themselves by blowing up children. What need is there to defend against children? Isn't the target suppose to be Hamas? "Yes, they are targeting Hamas.... even though they are killing exponentially more children in the process."
 
Smoke said:
I'm trying to get a number of how many civilians is too many for people who are in support of bombing Gaza. It's clear people think it's acceptable under the present conditions. So if there isn't a specific number or even a ballpark of how many Palestinian civilians is too many to continue to blow up, then clearly Israel truly is free to kill however many they want.
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The answer is as few as possible to destroy Hamas. The problem you have is you don't understand what is involved in prosecuting war. What you call war crimes actually saves lives. The bombing isn't indiscriminate. Israel is bombing the same targets that any army would target. Will there be civilian casualties? Yes. Will Israel try to minimize them? They already are. Will there be more because Hamas uses civilians as shields? Yes. Welcome to the intricacies of war.
 
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ThereRoseaLamb said:
Psst don't tell him Jesus used whips. :eek:
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Jesus whipped innocent children while targeting people gambling in our Heavenly Father's house? :unsure::unsure::unsure:

I must have missed that version of the story. Sounds like that would be found in a Mormon bible or something.
 
Smoke said:
I've said that "targeting" Hamas also means you are targeting children when you know they are in the same targeted area.

Think of it like chemotherapy. What does chemotherapy do? It kills fast-growing cells rapidly, right? It is effective at targeting cancer cells because cancer cells are fast-growing. However, chemo also kills good cells with it. When you airstrike (use chemo) and it's killing more good cells (civilians) than cancer cells (Hamas), you are more than likely getting "systemic chemo" (indiscriminate) than "regional chemo" (discriminate). I am opposed to systemic chemo and in favor of regional chemo.
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I don't really like the chemo analogy very much, it's not considering the personal choices that are made by Hamas, et al.
I think that it's more akin to a terrorist, holding hostages, while threatening to blow up a building that's populated by even many more people. Sooner or later the law enforcement people are going to have to make a decision to go after the terrorists and risk hostage casualties, in order to save the many more and the building.

Anyway, I know that you have been asked this before... and many others besides you.

How would you "target" Hamas?
 
Smoke said:
No country should be allowed to "defend" themselves by blowing up children. What need is there to defend against children? Isn't the target suppose to be Hamas? "Yes, they are targeting Hamas.... even though they are killing exponentially more children in the process."
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Interesting how a ceasefire has been denied.
 
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