Israel Declares War

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Take your time, and by all means, look after your health.

Brother, if you don't care I will PM you later. I see no point continuing this argument with people who feel the way they do here.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

@ThereRoseaLamb

Do you feel or believe that East Jerusalem is part of Israeli or is it Palestinian land that is occupied by Israel since 1967?

Do you believe Israel's sovereignty over East Jerusalem is recognized under international law?

Do you believe settling Israeli civilians in occupied land is a war crime?

Do you think the Jerusalem District Court has the right to evict Palestinians out of their homes in occupied land?

I see you marking anything that talks about displacing Palestinians with a red X, so I am genuinely curious what your thoughts are.

Will get back to you once I get this cough under control. <3 I don't use the red x so make sure its my posts you are talking about.

 

[Cameron143]

Brother, if you don't care I will PM you later. I see no point continuing this argument with people who feel the way they do here.

Sure.

 

[iamsoandso]

He looks for things which support his antisemetism

In order to prove preterism there has to be a guilty party that worshiped the image,received the mark the AOD ect.ect. prior to the siege in ad70, that is all these need be fulfilled prior to the destruction of the Temple in ad70. The issue is that the Jews revolted against Caesar and Rome which is the opposite of worshiping Caesar or Rome as God(=first,second and third Jewish revolt)... After one taking the position that the Jews of the first century were the guilty party who fulfilled these Scriptures without proof then requires maintenance which leads to antisemitism and Holocaust denial...one is the product of the other.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Many are, they're having big demonstrations all over the world claiming they don't.... and sadly some claiming to be Christians are in agreement with the claim Israel has no right to defend themselves.

They certainly have a right to self defense. My only arguement is. Where do you cross over from self defense into wanton destruction?

 

[HeIsHere]

In order to prove preterism there has to be a guilty party that worshiped the image,received the mark the AOD ect.ect. prior to the siege in ad70, that is all these need be fulfilled prior to the destruction of the Temple in ad70. The issue is that the Jews revolted against Caesar and Rome which is the opposite of worshiping Caesar or Rome as God(=first,second and third Jewish revolt)... After one taking the position that the Jews of the first century were the guilty party who fulfilled these Scriptures without proof then requires maintenance which leads to antisemitism and Holocaust denial...one is the product of the other.

Absolutely not true, it does not lead to anti-semitism, it does take away racism which is the by product when one group has more rights than another.

Jerusalem is Babylon not Rome.
Not all revolted if you read the history, there was a faction who revolted.

 

[Cameron143]

In order to prove preterism there has to be a guilty party that worshiped the image,received the mark the AOD ect.ect. prior to the siege in ad70, that is all these need be fulfilled prior to the destruction of the Temple in ad70. The issue is that the Jews revolted against Caesar and Rome which is the opposite of worshiping Caesar or Rome as God(=first,second and third Jewish revolt)... After one taking the position that the Jews of the first century were the guilty party who fulfilled these Scriptures without proof then requires maintenance which leads to antisemitism and Holocaust denial...one is the product of the other.

What was Israel punished for?

 

[JimmyTheLock]

Where do you cross over from self defense into wanton destruction?

As mentioned earlier... God in OT times destroyed entire nations in self defense of Israel.

Because that was the only solution since these folks have such hatred for the Jews they will never stop trying to destroy them.

The muslims today are the same way... some of them must be utterly destroyed because if they aren't them they will never stop trying to destroy Israel.

Since the muslims continually say publicaly they are hell bent on destroying Israel... they must be utterly destroyed!

No, it's not a nice thought but in this world sometimes it comes down to kill... or be killed.

In that situation we have to make a choice.... let the demon possessed idiots murder us, or do we want to whack them before they whack us?

This is the state of affairs for Israel right now.

Sadly some of so weak mentally and emotionally they would like to see Israel wiped off the map rather than hamas being wiped off the map.

 

[iamsoandso]

Absolutely not true, it does not lead to anti-semitism, it does take away racism which is the by product when one group has more rights than another.

Jerusalem is Babylon not Rome.
Not all revolted if you read the history, there was a faction who revolted.

You say this but every time in the past when I ask you who received the mark and worshiped the image in Revelation 13 you never explain who it was prior to ad70 that did it. To me it would be fairly simple for someone who had been taught in preterism to explain who it was they were told. Again would it not put an end to the confusion if someone that was preterit was to just say outright who it was that received the beast mark and worshiped it's image?

 

[iamsoandso]

What was Israel punished for?

That's the point in what I'm saying, that is in full preterism we are told that they see all of these prophecies being fulfilled by ad70. So I thought "okay I'll entertain the idea" and began asking where and when they saw these things being fulfilled prior to ad70. Many preterist told me that I should read the writings of Josephus and that afterwards I would understand who took the mark and worshiped it's image because they always implied it was the Jews.

Now so after reading Josephus writings something else happened in that instead of seeing undeniable proof that the Jews had in fact worshiped the Caesars of Rome as God and worshiped it's image I found that in fact they did the exact opposite they revolted(revolt does not mean worship). It is easy to see after reading Wars 2 that the reason that the Jews revolted against Rome and it's Caesars was because they wanted them to place their images in the Jewish synagogues,Temple ect. and to offer sacrifices to Caesar. Now I'm not sure if you have ever read Wars 2 or if you have just taken the opinions of others on this so I'll provide you with it so you can read it yourself.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-2.html and as for them buying and selling with the money of Rome the Jews minted their own coins because they had issue with the pagan images on Romes coins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage So then the Jews involved in the first Jewish revolt and the siege of Jerusalem if fact did not fulfill what is in Revelation 13:11-18 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/13.htm That is though unless you have an idea how or who it was that fulfilled these things prior to ad70 I have ask preterist over and over for years about this and so far no one will answer the question.

 

[Cameron143]

That's the point in what I'm saying, that is in full preterism we are told that they see all of these prophecies being fulfilled by ad70. So I thought "okay I'll entertain the idea" and began asking where and when they saw these things being fulfilled prior to ad70. Many preterist told me that I should read the writings of Josephus and that afterwards I would understand who took the mark and worshiped it's image because they always implied it was the Jews.

Now so after reading Josephus writings something else happened in that instead of seeing undeniable proof that the Jews had in fact worshiped the Caesars of Rome as God and worshiped it's image I found that in fact they did the exact opposite they revolted(revolt does not mean worship). It is easy to see after reading Wars 2 that the reason that the Jews revolted against Rome and it's Caesars was because they wanted them to place their images in the Jewish synagogues,Temple ect. and to offer sacrifices to Caesar. Now I'm not sure if you have ever read Wars 2 or if you have just taken the opinions of others on this so I'll provide you with it so you can read it yourself.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-2.html and as for them buying and selling with the money of Rome the Jews minted their own coins because they had issue with the pagan images on Romes coins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage So then the Jews involved in the first Jewish revolt and the siege of Jerusalem if fact did not fulfill what is in Revelation 13:11-18 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/13.htm That is though unless you have an idea how or who it was that fulfilled these things prior to ad70 I have ask preterist over and over for years about this and so far no one will answer the question.

A better place to start is to forget all that you have been taught and go back to scripture and let it say what it says.
Let scripture define the time and the meaning of what the imagery portrays. The book of Revelation is an incredible book.
Btw...who exactly was being worshipped by 1st century Jews in the temple after the resurrection?

 

[shittim]

Or seek and receive Holy Spirit power to experience His palpable confirmation, He never lies.
As you read His word, ask Him to reveal it to you.
He desires relationship , not religion, 24/7/365, we are no longer our own when we are His.
bless you friend

 

[iamsoandso]

A better place to start is to forget all that you have been taught and go back to scripture and let it say what it says.
Let scripture define the time and the meaning of what the imagery portrays. The book of Revelation is an incredible book.
Btw...who exactly was being worshipped by 1st century Jews in the temple after the resurrection?

Indeed the Scriptures that is in Revelation 17 the angel explains to John that five were,one is ect. afterwards he told John that at that time the seventh was still coming but would only last a short while, Then he tells him of an eighth head that would also come and that the ten kings had received no kingdom as yet. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/17.htm

So the angel explained to John a place marker in time where they were at in the beast that were to hold rule over the earth(and the Jews). That is that of the nations(beast) that were to rule them they were in the times of the sixth head(one is) and so the others were to rise and rule afterwards in time.

In Romans 13 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/romans/13.htm Paul tells them that they were to see the authorities over them(Rome at that time) as ordained by God. Again in Ephesians 6:5-9 and 1Peter 2:18-20 they said to the Christians obey those masters. On the other hand it seems that not only did the Jews not understand Jesus is the Messiah they also did not see to accomplish the servitude they were told they would accomplish under the four beast in Daniel. They suffered through Assyria and Babylon, then Persia and Greece but when it came to Rome the fourth beast they revolted(1st Jewish revolt) and tried to cast off that rule that was allocated by God. They did not understand to obey those authorities as ordained by God as the Christians did and that they were in the times of the sixth head and that there were an seventh,an eighth,ten kings and a little horn yet to come.

 

[HeIsHere]

You say this but every time in the past when I ask you who received the mark and worshiped the image in Revelation 13 you never explain who it was prior to ad70 that did it. To me it would be fairly simple for someone who had been taught in preterism to explain who it was they were told. Again would it not put an end to the confusion if someone that was preterit was to just say outright who it was that received the beast mark and worshiped it's image?

Not sure I remember the details of the conversation but I think we covered this before.

I feel like you have to take care of the big picture first and then chip away at the details, I would start with the Oliver discourse and see how that fits into being fulfilled.

Some say Nero but not sure I am completely convinced.

 

[Cameron143]

Indeed the Scriptures that is in Revelation 17 the angel explains to John that five were,one is ect. afterwards he told John that at that time the seventh was still coming but would only last a short while, Then he tells him of an eighth head that would also come and that the ten kings had received no kingdom as yet. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/17.htm

So the angel explained to John a place marker in time where they were at in the beast that were to hold rule over the earth(and the Jews). That is that of the nations(beast) that were to rule them they were in the times of the sixth head(one is) and so the others were to rise and rule afterwards in time.

In Romans 13 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/romans/13.htm Paul tells them that they were to see the authorities over them(Rome at that time) as ordained by God. Again in Ephesians 6:5-9 and 1Peter 2:18-20 they said to the Christians obey those masters. On the other hand it seems that not only did the Jews not understand Jesus is the Messiah they also did not see to accomplish the servitude they were told they would accomplish under the four beast in Daniel. They suffered through Assyria and Babylon, then Persia and Greece but when it came to Rome the fourth beast they revolted(1st Jewish revolt) and tried to cast off that rule that was allocated by God. They did not understand to obey those authorities as ordained by God as the Christians did and that they were in the times of the sixth head and that there were an seventh,an eighth,ten kings and a little horn yet to come.

So what do you make of all that?
And still curious who you believe was being worshipped in the temple by 1st century Jews after the resurrection.

 

[tobewholeagain]

this does not negate they were attached and have a right to defend themselves

You are looking at this from a verry narrow point of view.
Before I give my answer, I do agree that the Hamas attack had no objective in mind, or at least I have not heard of one. It was wrong and sadly many will suffer as a result. In my view they are lashing out because they are not being heard and yet it is wrong to take anyone’s life, period.
In my view the leader of Israel wants to wipe them all out. If the world was not watching, BiBi would have already sent in his tanks to kill anyone they saw and destroy whatever they could. And yes, it would have been and still may become a genocide.
Back to my original statement. There were three (3) terrorist groups called the Hagana, Irgun & Stern gangs.
The true story not told in the western press
Hagana, Irgun and Stern gangs who threw bombs into buses, assassinated British and other officials around)https://rense.com//general21/pastzionist.htm
FIRST ACTS OF TERRORISM, COINING THE PHRASE
November 6, 1944. Zionist terrorists of the Stern Gang assassinated the British Minister Resident in the Middle East, Lord Moyne, in Cairo.
July 22, 1946. Zionist terrorists blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem,.,.,killing or injuring more than 200 persons.
October 1, 1946. The British Embassy in Rome was badly damaged by bomb explosions, for which Irgun claimed responsibility.
September 3, 1947. A postal bomb addressed to the British War Office exploded in the post office sorting room in London, injuring 2 persons. It was attributed to Irgun or Stern Gangs. (The Sunday Times, Sept. 24, 1972, p.8)
December ll, 1947. Six Arabs were killed and 30 wounded when bombs were thrown from Jewish trucks at Arab buses in Haifa; 12 Arabs were killed and others injured in an attack by armed Zionists on an Arab coastal village near Haifa.
December 19, 1947. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blowing up two houses in the ruins of which were found the bodies of 10 Arabs, including 5 children. Haganah admitted responsibility for the attack.
December 13, 1947 -- February 10, 1948. Seven incidents of bomb-tossing at innocent Arab civilians in cafes and markets, killing 138 and wounding 271 others, During this period, there were 9 attacks on Arab buses. Zionists mined passenger trains on at least 4 occasions, killing 93 persons and wounding 161 others.
December 29, 1947. Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured, at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.
June 1947. Letters sent to British Cabinet Ministers were found to contain bombs.
December ll, 1947. Six Arabs were killed and 30 wounded when bombs were thrown from Jewish trucks at Arab buses in Haifa ; 12 Arabs were killed and others injured in an attack by armed Zionists on an Arab coastal village near Haifa.
December 29, 1947. Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured, at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.
January 4, 1948. Haganah terrorists wearing British Army uniforms penetrated into the center of Jaffa and blew up the Serai (the old Turkish Government House) killing more than 40 persons and wounding 98 others.
January 5, 1948. The Arab-owned Semiramis Hotel in Jerusalem was blown up, killing 20 persons.
January 7, 1948. Seventeen Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem,
January 16, 1948. Zionists blew up three Arab buildings. In the first, 8 children between the ages of 18 months and 12 years, died.
February 15, 1948. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blew up several houses, killing 11 Arabs, including 4 children.
March 3, 1948. Heavy damage was done to the Arab-owned Salam building in Haifa by Zionists who drove an army lorry ( truck) up to the building and escaped before the detonation of 400 Ib. of explosives; casualties numbered 11 Arabs and 3 Armenians killed and 23 injured.
I left out a lot of other killings for lack of space
Setting the past aside we have the IDF using its sniper teams to shoot Palestinian children.
Seer next post—

 

[tobewholeagain]

I Googled “Israelis killing children”
About 537,000 results (0.39 seconds)
Search Results

These are the Palestinian children killed by Israel in 2016 | The ...
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/.../these-are-palestinian-children-killed-israel-2016

Thirty-five Palestinian children were killed by Israeli soldiers, police and armed civilians during the year, all but four of the deadly incidents ...
Invisible killings: Israel's daily toll of Palestinian children | The ...

https://electronicintifada.net/content/invisible-killings-israels-daily-toll...children/4263

Convincing the Israeli adults in control of this weaponry in civilian areas that they should not be using it to kill children who are merely stone throwers should not ...

Israel 'killed 25 Palestinian children' in three months | News | Al Jazeera
www.aljazeera.com/.../israel-killed-25-palestinian-children-months-16051414083314...

Twenty-five Palestinian children were killed in the last three months of 2015 during a wave of anti-Israeli attacks and the number detained was ...
One Palestinian child killed every 3 days by Israel for 13 years ...

One Palestinian child killed every 3 days by Israel for 13 years: statistics...
“The International Day for the Protection of Children is on June 1,” said a spokesman, “but Palestinian children are still subject to attacks by the Israelis and ...

Report: Israel killed 3,000 Palestinian children since 2000 – Middle ...
Report: Israel killed 3,000 Palestinian children since 2000...

Israel has killed more than 3,000 children since 28 September 2000 when the Second Intifada began until the end of April 2017, a new report ...
Children in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia
Children in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia

Children in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict refers to the impact of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict .... Though Israeli children were killed in the conflict during the decades prior, the first acts of
12 yr old boy SHOT DEAD in front of your eyes
http://www.themodernreligion.com/jihad/sniper.html

Gaza girl said killed
By Amos Harel and Nir Hasson, Haaretz Correspondents,
and Haaretz Service
IDF troops shot and killed an 8-year-old Palestinian girl who was on her way to school in a Gaza Strip refugee camp
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/494672.html

Photos of a 12 year old palestinian boy being shot by Israeli soldiers and the ambulance driver who tried to save him also being shot and killed.
http://www.palestine-net.com/misc/durra/

Three-year-old Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and dead while buying candy with her friends.
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article2785.shtml

12-year old Hoda Darwish was hit in the head by a bullet fired Two 10 year-old school children were shot in the al-Omaria school run by UNRWA in Rafah, when an Israeli tank fired into their classroom.

Bullets fired from the tank flew through the classroom window, hitting Mahmoud Hamad in the neck and Hisham al Habil in the head. The boys had not even been sitting by the windows but in the middle of the room.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/index.html

An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
http://tinyurl.com/99kh8zk
.,,,,,.,,.,.,.,.,,,,..,,.,,

I could go on and on, but I will not.

 

[tobewholeagain]

Israel falls into two camps.​

First (1) there are the biblical references
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I can set these verses aside and look at the here and now.
Second (2) In the here and now I found this------
Modern day Israelis ignore the above, believing they are above His rule.
The Israeli IDF sniper teams have murdered hundreds of Palestinian children
https://tinyurl.com/32yekhjk
Israelis destroy Palestinian homes and murder whoever is inside
https://tinyurl.com/47s4nm28
Israelis destroy Palestinian fishing boats cutting off needed food for its people
https://tinyurl.com/4a8zj84c
For Your Eyes Only
https://tinyurl.com/36v8w22f

It is what it is

 

[tobewholeagain]

Well they were and God keeps His promise.

SCATTER THEN GATHERED THEN JUDGED
First, they were scattered.
(Jer 24:9 KJV) And I will deliver them to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth for their hurt, to be a reproach and a proverb, a taunt and a curse, in all places whither I shall drive them.

Second, they were gathered for judgment.
(Ezek 36:24 KJV) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
King James Bible
And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.
(Ezek 36:17 KJV) Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.
(Ezek 36:18 KJV) Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it.
(Ezek 36:22 KJV) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
(Ezek 36:24 KJV) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
(Ezek 36:31 KJV) Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
(Ezek 36:32 KJV) Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

Then the Lord, God Tells the Israeli that He has had enough, and so it will be done; in our lifetime.

And last but not least, the Lord God removes them from their memory

King James Bible
Ezekiel 21:32
Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.
THE END

 

[Underwhosewings]

What does a baptist "convert" to?

The church that God is building.