Israel’s Restoration?

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presidente said:
Romans 10:1 says,
"Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. "

Does Jesus need saving?

Romans 10
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

Is it Christ Whom the Lord wishes to provoke to jealousy?

Romans 10
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Christ was obedient, even to death on a cross.

Romans 11:7 says,
"Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for ..."

But didn't Christ obtain that which he sought, or won't He?
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Physical Israel remained until the last generation of circumcised Jews died off. The first-century Jews whom the apostles ministered to. Abraham's seed = Israel. Paul says Jesus is Abraham's seed and us who believe in him.
 
presidente said:
Read this passage in context. It is addressed to Jews. 'Behold thou art called a Jew.' Paul addresses the one who boasts in the law, and goes on to say, "What advantage has the Jew. Much every way..." The issue is what makes Jews real Jews. He doesn't say whether believing Gentiles are 'Jews' in this passage. That is not the context. And Paul uses 'Israel' as a distinct group from Gentiles in this epistle.
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The distinction in all cases are between that seen the temporal and that not seen the eternal. we do not wrestle against flesh and blood the temporal .

That seen an "outward Jew." That not seen the eternal a "inward Jew"

Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

It certainly was not that some Jews failed the DNA test.

Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

There are those who think 'Christian' might have been used as a mocking title. But the second century, it may have been a homophone of 'good'. Maybe they were calling them something like 'goody-two-shoes' in English.
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I have heard that also that its a mocking term given by enemies. No idea why someone would use it to mock? The word "named" in respect to Christians is used 9 times in the new testament it also is in reference to what was inspired from above not earthy inspired of the devil. .

Christian a befitting new name for his chaste virgin bride the church

Again the word Christian with no other meaning added simply means "residents of the city of Christ" prepared as the bride named after it founder. Like all cities named after there founders . Bereans, Nicolaitans , Corinthians , Ephesians, Philippians Colossians

Christian points to the faithful city unseen the new heavenly Jerusalem.

But there is nothing here that indicates that God did away with the word 'Israel' to refer to the nation of Israel or other names for the church like Nazarene, followers of the Way.
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The word Israel is not done away with. It is just not all Israel is Israel or the new name he named His bride Christian

Some Jews are like Jacob before his born again conversion name Israel was given. They were the same place as gentile under Jacob . Just like a outward Jew today. God puts no difference between a jew and a gentile. Purifying the hearts of all men, all nations by a work of his faith or labor of His love.
 
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presidente said:
You are making a foolish accusation that makes no sense based on what I posted. The apostles were not the source of the divine truth that they preached. But Jesus did say to His disciples that Spirit would lead them into all truth. Paul said 'be ye followers of me' as He followed Christ. The Bible says to contend for the faith which was once delivered to the saints.

My comments do not deify the apostles. You have no basis for accusing me of blasphemy based on my post. Slander is a sin.
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It would seem you are giving the apostles some authority if you think we are to follow them.

That is what Catholicism performs. Called apostolic succession .

We follow after Christ just as Paul, as he walked by the faith that worked in him. Same faith of God that works in us that also worked in Jesus for 33 years .
 
presidente said:
This is a command Israel did not obey, like many others. But it does not say that Gentiles would now be called 'Israel' if the people rejected Christ. Paul referred to those who did not accept that Prophet as Israel-- those that were blinded-- and those Israelites who accepted as Israel-- the remnant in Romans 11. In Romans 11, the Gentiles who are grafted in are not called 'Israel.'
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The gentiles are not skin grafted into the body. They are grafted into a born again source .The hearing of faith . . hearing God by faith the unseen eternal .Not after what the eyes see the temporal .Same as today .
 
Dave-L said:
Physical Israel remained until the last generation of circumcised Jews died off. The first-century Jews whom the apostles ministered to. Abraham's seed = Israel. Paul says Jesus is Abraham's seed and us who believe in him.
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Paul does not equate Jesus with Israel. Jesus is Abraham's seed. Israel is Abraham's seed according to the flesh. Where do you get the circumcised Jews died off?
 
garee said:
It would seem you are giving the apostles some authority if you think we are to follow them.

That is what Catholicism performs. Called apostolic succession .

We follow after Christ just as Paul, as he walked by the faith that worked in him. Same faith of God that works in us that also worked in Jesus for 33 years .
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Paul said 'Follow me as I follow Christ.' It seems you have a problem with that scripture.
 
garee said:
The distinction in all cases are between that seen the temporal and that not seen the eternal. we do not wrestle against flesh and blood the temporal .

That seen an "outward Jew." That not seen the eternal a "inward Jew"

Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

It certainly was not that some Jews failed the DNA test.

Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Click to expand...

None of these passages call Gentiles believers 'Jews.' There are ethnic Jews who are not Jews inwardly.

I have heard that also that its a mocking term given by enemies. No idea why someone would use it to mock? The word "named" in respect to Christians is used 9 times in the new testament it also is in reference to what was inspired from above not earthy inspired of the devil. .
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I am aware of two references. Maybe you could share the other seven. One verses is about a man suffering as a Christian.

Again the word Christian with no other meaning added simply means "residents of the city of Christ" prepared as the bride named after it founder.
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I am pretty sure the concept of a city is not inherent in the meaning of the word 'Christian' in English or in the Greek word from which it is translated.
 
Dave-L said:
Jesus says his kingdom is not of this world. = no national restoration = The Church is Israel. Only through faith in Christ will any be reattached to Israel the Church.
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This is about as far from the truth as you can get unless you don't believe in the second coming.
Read revelation without spiritualizing. Get away from you tube idealisms for God's sake be a berean.

When John is caught up is the last time you hear of the church untill far later. The focus quickly becomes on unbelievers, and world events along with Israel.
Jesus then returns with his bride. (Wonder what happened there.)
The second coming is all about Israel, focused on Israel, and the children of wrath.
Paul said we (the church) and those who believe in Christ are not appointed to wrath.
The children of wrath, Israel, and now the third people mentioned are those who by their own blood refuse the mark of the beast and are killed for Christ sake.
Revelation is all about the redemtion of Israel the how and why.
We are the temple built with no hands. Yet Jesus sits on David's throne in the temple as promised by God.

We are ( the church) A new creation the old is passed away. The Jews don't have to be adopted they are the Vine to which we are grafted in.
Christianity is founded in Jewish roots for the old testament is Christ hidden the New testament is Christ revealed.
 
pottersclay said:
This is about as far from the truth as you can get unless you don't believe in the second coming.
Read revelation without spiritualizing. Get away from you tube idealisms for God's sake be a berean.

When John is caught up is the last time you hear of the church untill far later. The focus quickly becomes on unbelievers, and world events along with Israel.
Jesus then returns with his bride. (Wonder what happened there.)
The second coming is all about Israel, focused on Israel, and the children of wrath.
Paul said we (the church) and those who believe in Christ are not appointed to wrath.
The children of wrath, Israel, and now the third people mentioned are those who by their own blood refuse the mark of the beast and are killed for Christ sake.
Revelation is all about the redemtion of Israel the how and why.
We are the temple built with no hands. Yet Jesus sits on David's throne in the temple as promised by God.

We are ( the church) A new creation the old is passed away. The Jews don't have to be adopted they are the Vine to which we are grafted in.
Christianity is founded in Jewish roots for the old testament is Christ hidden the New testament is Christ revealed.
Click to expand...
God removed the unbelievers from Israel in Romans 11. Paul says God will graft any who believe back into Israel.
“And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.” Romans 11:23 (KJV 1900)
 
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pottersclay said:
This is about as far from the truth as you can get unless you don't believe in the second coming.
Read revelation without spiritualizing. Get away from you tube idealisms for God's sake be a berean.

When John is caught up is the last time you hear of the church untill far later. The focus quickly becomes on unbelievers, and world events along with Israel.
Jesus then returns with his bride. (Wonder what happened there.)
The second coming is all about Israel, focused on Israel, and the children of wrath.
Paul said we (the church) and those who believe in Christ are not appointed to wrath.
The children of wrath, Israel, and now the third people mentioned are those who by their own blood refuse the mark of the beast and are killed for Christ sake.
Revelation is all about the redemtion of Israel the how and why.
We are the temple built with no hands. Yet Jesus sits on David's throne in the temple as promised by God.

We are ( the church) A new creation the old is passed away. The Jews don't have to be adopted they are the Vine to which we are grafted in.
Christianity is founded in Jewish roots for the old testament is Christ hidden the New testament is Christ revealed.
Click to expand...

We are not grafted into corrupted flesh. Christ the spiritual seed and root that feds the vine of his own flesh he says it profits for nothing, zero.

What is the hope that he is served with human hands as if he was a respecter of men of any nation? If we can see it (flesh and blood the temporal, why we would hope for it that dies and in the end returns to the clay it formed from. ?

Can we even take a DNA and determining what tribe men are from? Or did the genealogy as the Son of man Jesus end in Mathew . Having served it one time purpose of demonstrating the work of two the father and the Son working as one to bring the peace of God that does surpass our human understanding.

The prescription for rightly dividing parable must be used to see over the horizon. Then the dark glass as parables becomes more transparent .

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

(1) Things seen = flesh and blood

(2) Things not seen. = The continuing work of Christ that we have in these earthen bodies of death. . not of us.
 
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Dave-L said:
God removed the unbelievers from Israel in Romans 11. Paul says God will graft any who believe back into Israel.
“And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.” Romans 11:23 (KJV 1900)
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And yet they are beloved for the sakes' of the fathers and through your mercy, they are to obtain mercy.
 
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