Is unconditional election biblical?
- Thread starter UnitedWithChrist
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
There you go using the pejorative "free-willers" while objecting to derogatory comments about Reformed Theology.
The true teaching on divine election is that God elects the ones who will obey the Gospel (and be justified) to be perfected -- "conformed to the image of His Son". That is included in the glorification of the saints.
For whom he did foreknow
he also did predestinate
to be conformed to the image of his Son,
that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate,
them he also called:
and whom he called, them he also justified:
and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
It is always like that.
Just because a system seems to make sense and supposedly provide answers does not mean it is true.
Ah.... We're back to dead people making a choice to be saved. Back to people conceiving and birthing themselves.
Back to people mustering the faith to believe from their OWN inner being, instead of recognizing the faith as a gift from God, and thanking and giving HIM the glory for it.
Back to people mustering the faith to believe from their OWN inner being, instead of recognizing the faith as a gift from God, and thanking and giving HIM the glory for it.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Who has ever made this claim?
Again with the "mustering"
You know faith a small a mustard can do the trick....
I guess we can dispense with the four gospels and most of the letters when Jesus could have just stated a few words...
""You have no will or ability to believe in me because your mind is so, so depraved you have lost all ability to use reason, but no worries I will do the believing for my selected ones."
Are you not a born again Child of god?Who has ever made this claim?
Again with the "mustering"
You know faith a small a mustard can do the trick....
I guess we can dispense with the four gospels and most of the letters when Jesus could have just stated a few words...
""You have no will or ability to believe in me because your mind is so, so depraved you have lost all ability to use reason, but no worries I will do the believing for my selected ones."
If so, how did you become Spiritually born into Christ?
This is a misrepresentation of non-Reformed beliefs. Every person who obeyed the Gospel made a CONSCIOUS DECISION (including you). And God demands a conscious decision as we see in Scripture (Acts 2:37,28).
AFTER CONVICTION A DECISION MUST BE MADE
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
THE GOSPEL DEMANDS REPENTANCE AND FAITH
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
I'll admit that I am a simple woman but these thoughts come to mind...
Unconditional election points to extreme arrogance... it points to one thinking God, the One who has no favorites, picks you, regardless anything.
Unconditional election would have me always wondering if I was one of the chosen, knowing no matter what, it is a miss and hit scenario and there is no amount of repentance that can save me, if I am not elect. How do you know for sure you are elect, only God is all knowing?
Unconditional election leaves one pondering.. if everything is already fixed, why bother with this argument, this thread, praying or evangelism?
Unconditional election makes our all loving God and His choice to give His only begotten Son not so loving after all. In fact, it seems to make that heavenly selfless action a waste of time. Those who are elected are saved before and after His sacrifice of atonement. God elected, nothing has any bearing right, it is unconditional?
I don't know where the line is, and I agree Salvation is the Lords, that He gets all credit. I know He foreknew and predestined, I can't deny that passage.
But I can not deny John 3:16 either and other verses that point to Him wanting all of us saved.
I just want to spend more time pointing to Him, talking about Him and His love for us all, rather to spend great amount of time and energy focusing on His elect or to the doctrine of unconditional election. He is more than His clay and His creation, so much more.
So often it seems folks are so much more interested in their belief systems rather than in Him. He is way, only Him.
Maybe I just do not understand enough yet, but I pray my focus will always be Him!
Unconditional election points to extreme arrogance... it points to one thinking God, the One who has no favorites, picks you, regardless anything.
Unconditional election would have me always wondering if I was one of the chosen, knowing no matter what, it is a miss and hit scenario and there is no amount of repentance that can save me, if I am not elect. How do you know for sure you are elect, only God is all knowing?
Unconditional election leaves one pondering.. if everything is already fixed, why bother with this argument, this thread, praying or evangelism?
Unconditional election makes our all loving God and His choice to give His only begotten Son not so loving after all. In fact, it seems to make that heavenly selfless action a waste of time. Those who are elected are saved before and after His sacrifice of atonement. God elected, nothing has any bearing right, it is unconditional?
I don't know where the line is, and I agree Salvation is the Lords, that He gets all credit. I know He foreknew and predestined, I can't deny that passage.
But I can not deny John 3:16 either and other verses that point to Him wanting all of us saved.
I just want to spend more time pointing to Him, talking about Him and His love for us all, rather to spend great amount of time and energy focusing on His elect or to the doctrine of unconditional election. He is more than His clay and His creation, so much more.
So often it seems folks are so much more interested in their belief systems rather than in Him. He is way, only Him.
Maybe I just do not understand enough yet, but I pray my focus will always be Him!
Dear sister...…….about being foreknown and predestined. People seem to be disabled from understanding that from this age, when we repent we are foreknown by our Father, and predestined, again, from this age, to be with Him forever.
It is quite possible that the "elect" are elected when they repent of this age and material existence and turn to the true, living kingdom yet to come. In this regarde our repentence makes us foreknow by the Father, predestined from this age, and elected due to our repentence and giving all glory to Jesus, Yeshua.
If you are indeed simple, then I must be a super idiot for all you have posted makes perfect sense to me. Keep up you good works given you by the Father. You certainly edify me. God bless you always….
It is quite possible that the "elect" are elected when they repent of this age and material existence and turn to the true, living kingdom yet to come. In this regarde our repentence makes us foreknow by the Father, predestined from this age, and elected due to our repentence and giving all glory to Jesus, Yeshua.
If you are indeed simple, then I must be a super idiot for all you have posted makes perfect sense to me. Keep up you good works given you by the Father. You certainly edify me. God bless you always….
Hello Charlirenee..…...….I hope you read my post AFTER I corrected it. I typed the lasst par with my hand off of the home row and it was jibberish the first time..
lol, thank you brother, you are not an idiot, far from it. What you said about forknowing and predestination...from this age, makes sense.
Thank you and may you continue also to walk in the oh so gracious Spirit of our Lord and Savior. God Bless you and thank you for blessing me brother with your faith and kindness.
Lol, brother...I am glad you were able to edit before the 5 min were up. I'll admit, I tried to read it before, lol, but when I replied the changes were made. I wish that I could change the He is way, to He is the way. I missed my 5 min window, whaaaa, lol
Matthew 19:25-26Who has ever made this claim?
Again with the "mustering"
You know faith a small a mustard can do the trick....
I guess we can dispense with the four gospels and most of the letters when Jesus could have just stated a few words...
""You have no will or ability to believe in me because your mind is so, so depraved you have lost all ability to use reason, but no worries I will do the believing for my selected ones."
25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Faith is a gift and a blessing of God.
Right, that's an inconsistency though. I was in a parachurch ministry with a Pentecostal who told me about telling a Muslim that the difference between Islam and Christianity is that he could have assurance in his salvation. I said, why did you tell him that if you don't believe in eternal security? He said, well I am sure of MY salvation. He was very inconsistent and could not see the inconsistency.
By the way, I'm not fond of Pentecostal/charismatic theology, as I'm sure people know by now, but I still respected him on many points. None related to God telling him things audibly, or casting out demons from folks' homes, though
He was pretty bulletproof concerning my blunt monergistic remarks, though, and I respected him for that.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Why isn't the opposite true. That it is extreme pride and arrogance to say WE are smarter, more enlightened, better people, than those foolish people, to have understood the need of a Savior, and believe and accept Him?
Is God in control? Or only in control of some things. Is God's Will active in everything except who His Children are?:
Matthew 10:29-31 New King James Version (NKJV)
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a [a]copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father’s will. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.