Edit: TheDivineWatetmatk, in post #198, I meant to cite Isa.24:23 (not verse 3), when referring to God's Kingdom.
Is Ultimate Release from Hell Possible?
- Thread starter MadHermit
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The State of those resurrected to life is "everlasting" or "eternal." For the righteous, their life in the future is unending. Likewise for the unrighteous, it is also unending. The duration of both the righteous and the wicked destinies are equally without end.
There are only two destinies. Those who are saved enter into eternal life, and those whom are not saved enter into eternal fire. "Eternal fire" explicitly renders hell an everlasting reality. The contrast could not be any starker. The bible makes it quite clear that eternal damnation is a period of "unending duration', or a time "without end." Jesus left His hearers during His ministry upon earth in no doubt to the seriousness of the eternal state of sinners. The experience of fire will be unending in its duration.
There are only two destinies. Those who are saved enter into eternal life, and those whom are not saved enter into eternal fire. "Eternal fire" explicitly renders hell an everlasting reality. The contrast could not be any starker. The bible makes it quite clear that eternal damnation is a period of "unending duration', or a time "without end." Jesus left His hearers during His ministry upon earth in no doubt to the seriousness of the eternal state of sinners. The experience of fire will be unending in its duration.
I don't jump to anything! I do a lot of study on all Biblical topics and I don't say anything unless I know the truth of the matter. If people had the opportunity for salvation after death, why bother receiving Christ in their life time? They could just live according to the sinful nature and then be saved after death. You don't know what you are talking about! Regarding this issue, we have an example of someone (the rich man) who died and went to Sheol/Hades who was in torment in flame. Neither Lazarus, nor anyone else could come back from the dead to warn his five brothers so that they wouldn't come to that place of torment. And he is still there till this very day, where at the great white throne judgment he will be resurrected and will stand before God and be judged and then cast into the lake of fire. There is no offer of salvation after death. Below are the answers to the scriptures you provided:
I Corinthians 15:28
"And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all. If these things are not so, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?"
First of all, living people being baptized for those who have died is not supported by scripture. Do you also believe that women will be saved through bearing children? Because Paul said that as well and we know that salvation cannot be obtained by getting pregnant and having children. Therefore, in saying this Paul had a different meaning in mind. He could have been speaking about the existing false religious beliefs where they believed in being baptized for the dead, where Paul could have used it as an example. It was because the Corinthians were not believing in the resurrection that he mentions baptism. Living believers in Christ being baptized for the unbelieving dead would go against the rest of the scriptures. The phrase "Today is the day of salvation," means to seek the Lord while you're living, during the time of God's favor. For once a person dies in their sins, God's love, grace and forgiveness are no longer in operation for that person. They will be held accountable for every idle word at the great white throne judgment.
But back to the issue: baptism is a public proclamation of ones true repentance. It signifies the believer dying to the old nature and rising in the new man in Christ, being buried with Christ and rising to new life. A person who has died without believing cannot make that proclamation. They died in their sins and will be held accountable for their sins, every last one of them. For regarding those who die in their sins Jesus said the following:
"But I tell you that men will give an account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken." (Matt.12:36)
"Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire." - (Rev.20:15)
There is no offer of salvation after death and the judgment is final and eternal, everlasting. For they will have died without the blood of Christ covering them and there is no other way of being saved. Therefore, after the unbeliever dies they have no opportunity to be reconciled to God, which can only be done by the shedding of righteous blood.
I Peter 3:18-20
"For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the spirit, in which He also went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ark was being built."
First of all, Jesus did not go and preach to the unbelievers in Sheol/Hades to offer them salvation. What I believe this scripture is saying is that, Christ went to the spirits/fallen angels who attempted to corrupt the Messianic blood line when they took wives from the progeny of men and produced children/giants. He went to the place where they had been sent (Tartartus/Tartaroo) to announce to them that they didn't succeed in their attempt and that He had redeemed mankind, all those who would believe in Him.
"For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them deep into hell (Tartartus) placing them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment" - (2 Pet.2:4)
"And the angels who did not stay within their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling—these He has kept in eternal chains under darkness, bound for judgment on that great day." - (Jude 6)
In order to come to a conclusion regarding any Biblical topic, we must consider all related scriptures and not just depend on one. Click on the link below for information regarding the possible means of what Paul meant regarding those being baptized for the dead. Please don't just cast it aside, but read what it says if you want more information on it.
https://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-dead.html
1 Corinthians 15:28-29 ---- Paul, in the midst of correcting bad theology, ignorance, self-contradictory false teaching and bad practice, says "they" who baptize for the dead, not "we" who baptize for the dead.
1 Peter 3:19 ---- the very next verse explicitly tells us who he's talking about "who disobeyed God long ago in the days of Noah"
1 Peter 4:6 ---- the gospel was preached ((past tense)) to those who are now dead ((present tense)). you want it to say 'is preached' ((present tense)) but it doesn't say that.
Revelation 21:25 ---- the gates of the heavenly city will not be shut because there is no night there -- where? in the heavenly city. what is the heavenly city? the heavenly city is a who, not a what. Rev. 21:9-10, the angel said come I will show you the Bride of the Lamb, and he showed him what? the heavenly city.
is there night in the Bride of the Lamb? no.
so why do you keep going around this forum teaching that there is? why do you have this gospel that preaches God sends those whose names are written in His book of life to hell, for a while, to bring them out again? why do you try to convince us that the Bride of the Lamb is cast into outer darkness?
Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful,
but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
(Revelation 21:27)
be ye happy now?
i reckon the level of difficulty in attaining a PHD varies with the discipline one seeks the degree in.
I have more degrees than a thermometer, but I still can't figure out what "room temperature" is.
Is this mormon or universalist or catholic teaching here. Purgatory??
Or is it just the people who are in hell on earth, metaphoically, can be released by Jesus.
My understanding is if one is in hell, and awaiting judgement, they know they are condemned and they dont believe in Jesus. They havent repented, and their destiny is the lake of fire where they will ultimately perish.
I think we need to tell people the truth and not give people false hope. Of course those whove already died their salvation depends on Jesus whther they repented and believed in their hearts, and as we often dont know peoples hearts who have passed, we cant say for sure wether they may be in heaven or not, but ultimately, God knows each and every persons secret hearts, and He will do right for everyone.
Often God does give us assurance about people for example one of my friends who passed away I wasnt sure about as when I knew her she wasnt a believer so kept asking God and he showed me that she did put her trust in Him and she did hear about Him.
Or is it just the people who are in hell on earth, metaphoically, can be released by Jesus.
My understanding is if one is in hell, and awaiting judgement, they know they are condemned and they dont believe in Jesus. They havent repented, and their destiny is the lake of fire where they will ultimately perish.
I think we need to tell people the truth and not give people false hope. Of course those whove already died their salvation depends on Jesus whther they repented and believed in their hearts, and as we often dont know peoples hearts who have passed, we cant say for sure wether they may be in heaven or not, but ultimately, God knows each and every persons secret hearts, and He will do right for everyone.
Often God does give us assurance about people for example one of my friends who passed away I wasnt sure about as when I knew her she wasnt a believer so kept asking God and he showed me that she did put her trust in Him and she did hear about Him.
Read Daniel, it will help you understand what heads and horns speak of.
There are many that deny Jesus is the Christ, so I will conclude that comprises the spirit of antichrist. But those are not the ones slated as the antichrist...such as...
Revelation 19:20 (KJV) And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
God bless you brother. I do believe that you are trying sincerely and the best that you can. But when it comes to eschatology, you simply don't understand what you are reading.
I wish the church would accept the fact Jesus came back in 70 A.D. That is why you haven't seen Him for 2,000 years. We are not going to. The Bible teaches no other possible time framework than the first century. Jesus' own words prove any other time frame work to be impossible. Either He told the truth or He wasn't who He said He was.
The beast, false prophet, Satan, fallen angels/watcher, old heavens and earth all destroyed in 70 A.D. That's what Scripture says but people reject it for many reasons. Mostly because they don't understand it. They try to bend Scripture to fit the physical ideas in their head instead of letting the ideas in their head be shaped by Scripture.
'Delirious' is a fit nick.
BTW, Preterism is a heretical doctrine, but believe it if you wish.
God bless you brother. I do believe that you are trying sincerely and the best that you can. But when it comes to eschatology, you simply don't understand what you are reading.
Actually, what I am proclaiming is the truth, but you appear to not be able to receive it.
You continue to demonstrate that you have no idea of the events that are to take place when Christ returns to the earth to end the age. When He does, that will be the end of all human government and the beginning of the Lord's kingdom on earth. In order for the Lord to have returned to the earth to end the age, many earth-changing events would to have taken place. A very earth changing list indeed.
You people who believe and teach that Jesus has already come are in for a very big awakening. For by the time the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments have completed, the majority of the earths population will have been decimated and all human government dismantled. If you had done an in depth study of them you would understand this. Regarding this time of God's coming wrath and the kingdom of the beast, Jesus said that "if those days had not been cut short, no one would saved, i.e. left alive.
The statement above demonstrates your ignorance in these matters. This present heaven and earth have continued on as they have from the time that Adam was created and will continue to do so until after the thousand year reign of Christ, where after the great white throne judgment, God will create a new heaven and new earth, with the new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven. It is very easy to claim these things and already taking place when you can allegorize/spiritualize them. It's unfortunate that the preterist got a hold of you and reject the truth of God's word.
And you're one of them! False teachers always attack the credibility of those teaching the truth in an attempt to discredit them, which is what you have been doing.
Let's talk about your bending scripture! You say that Jesus has already returned. He warns those who will be here at the time of His return to the earth, by saying: "If anyone says to you "the Messiah is out in the desert, don't go look! Or, the Messiah is in a secret room, don't believe them." Then He tells us the way in which we can know that it is Him, because the inhabitants of the earth will see Him (every eye) arriving on the clouds of the sky. Then He says that He will send out His angels and they will gather is elect. In regards to this, the parable in Matt.13 states the angels will "first gather the wicked" and bind them into bundles to be burned. At that time, only the great tribulation saints along with the remnant of Israel will be allowed to enter into the millennial kingdom and that to repopulate it. All of the wicked will be killed by that double-edge sword.
I would remind you that, just as Hymenaeus and Philetus were teaching that the resurrection had already taken place, which Paul called empty chatter and ungodly, that it would spread like gangrene and because of this they had wandered away from the truth and were destroying the faith of some. Therefore, those who claim that the resurrection has already taken place, come under the same condemnation.
I gave you lots of Scriptures where Jesus tells everyone plainly that He is returning in His generation (Matt 16: 27-28, Mark 8:38-9: 1, Luke 9: 26-27, Matt 24: 34, Mark 13: 30, Luke 21: 32, Matt 10: 23 and there are dozens more all over the NT). You never answered any of them. The answers you tried to give the Scripture explicitly denies as possible.
Tell yourself whatever helps you sleep at night. God bless you.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I love this new world we have been living in since AD 70! No wars. The animals are all at peace Mankind is at peace. Jerusalem is at peace with Jesus ruling for 2000 years plus Satan is bound.
what a lovely ........(wakes up to reality)
The bottom line is the same, so the difference isn't as great as people think.
I think theogians have turned the presence of God into a place,
Who among us can dwell with the consuming fire? Who among us can dwell with everlasting burnings?” He who walks righteously and speaks uprightly Isa.33:14-15
For our God is a consuming fire Heb.12:29
Well there is a difference between a king and his subjects.
Reality is,
Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you Jn.14:27
the peace of God, which passeth all understanding Phil.4:7
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new 2Cor.5:17
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD Isa.65:25
They? Who are they? And where's this holy mountain? Can someone get me a map?