Is Total Victory over Sin Possible?

[tablet123]

What did Paul say? I do what I hate and hate what I do? Paraphrased of course. Any here greater than Paul? I think not. They murdered the only one I know of that was without sin. Although some claim to be.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Paul said a Spirit led person can abstain from sin.

1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

adokimos
ad-ok'-ee-mos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate.

Paul said if he did not abstain from sin he would be a castaway.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

1Co 13:5 thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth.

Paul said charity, love in action, is greater than faith, and faith works by love.

No love, then no faith.

And love does not think an evil thought.

And rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth, to be led of the Spirit to abstain from sin.

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul is not saying he cannot abstain from sin but when he does good that the flesh still wants to have its way.

But he said with the mind he serves Christ which he is doing good but with the flesh he serves sin, not that he is sinning, but in the flesh dwells no good thing and the flesh is trying to have its way.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Paul is saying that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not, that what he would do according to the flesh he does not do it.

And but what I hate, that do I, obeying the law, because the flesh wants to have its way, that he does obeys the law.

He does opposite of what the flesh wants and obeys the law that he hates according to the flesh.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Paul said some people will not allow the Spirit to lead them, and love sin more than God, and never come to the truth.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Jesus will tell the people that did not allow the Spirit to lead them to abstain from sin to depart from Him.

People that say they cannot abstain from sin of course they are sinning and do not come to the truth because by the Spirit they can abstain from sin.

But when we sin we did it on purpose, and who twisted our arm to sin so what is the excuse.

If we sin we could of chosen not to sin which is why the world is in trouble.

But with that being said even though we can abstain from sin by the Spirit I would not say we are sinless because we still have the capability to sin being in the flesh.

If we do sin we should get rid of it and allow the Spirit to lead us.

Jesus was the only human not capable of sinning because He was always led of the Spirit.

I do not want to come across as holier than thou for only Jesus was sinless.

When we are with Jesus then we are sinless because we are not in the flesh anymore.

 

[JacobGilbert]

The Bible is clear that we are not meant to go on in sin until Christ returns. By the power of the Spirit, believers can and must overcome sin’s dominion now. “For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace” (Rom. 6:14). God always provides a way of escape (1 Cor. 10:13), and those born of God will not continue in habitual sin (1 John 3:9).

Revelation 22:11 isn’t permission to stay in iniquity it’s a warning. When Christ comes, people’s spiritual condition will be fixed: the unjust will remain unjust, and the righteous will remain righteous. There will be no more chances for repentance after that moment.

When Paul says we will be changed “in the twinkling of an eye” (1 Cor. 15:52), he is speaking of our mortal, corruptible bodies being transformed into immortal, incorruptible ones. That change is for those who already belong to Christ. It is not a promise that someone living in rebellion will suddenly be made righteous at the last trumpet.

So the consistent teaching of Scripture is this: we are called to repent and walk in holiness NOW, by the power of the Spirit, while there is still time. “Today is the day of salvation” (2 Cor. 6:2). Christ will indeed make us fully like Him, but only those who are His now will share in that glory.

 

[EddieM]

We have many who say they can't or won't stop sinning even to when Jesus appears at the Second Coming. Are we able to overcome or not?

No. Of course, over a short period of time sin can be held back.



When the Bible says let "he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: ' does this mean we can stay full of iniquity?

Revelation 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

If we keep sinning will Christ make us sinless at the end when we are changed 'in the twinkling of an eye'? Is this verse referring only to our mortal bodies of flesh, or also our sinful lives?

Yes, Christians received their glorified bodies at the Rapture. OT saints get theirs at the 2nd Coming.

1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

We shall be changed into our glorified bodies. If you are the thinking kind of believer, you can see that we received our body/soul/spirit BEFORE the Rewards Ceremony (BEMA, mistranslated as Judgment Seat of Christ). No sin will be brought up at BEMA or the Second Coming.




What does the Bible teach?

 

[DeanM]

Sinless perfection is an interesting concept. Good to strive for but never obtained in this world.

 

[wattie]

We have many who say they can't or won't stop sinning even to when Jesus appears at the Second Coming. Are we able to overcome or not?

When the Bible says let "he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: ' does this mean we can stay full of iniquity?

Revelation 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

If we keep sinning will Christ make us sinless at the end when we are changed 'in the twinkling of an eye'? Is this verse referring only to our mortal bodies of flesh, or also our sinful lives?

1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


What does the Bible teach?

People will always be imperfect this side of heaven. That is just a plain fact.

A believer empowered by the Holy Spirit can lessen sin in their lives, but cannot be morally or physically perfect. If they could, they would be God.

A believer may have overcome pornogaphy in their life, but still eats too much. Or has overcome being unfaithful, but spends money on gambling. Or doesn't gamble but is unfaithful.

A believer may have overcome all of these things, but they have an illness. Etc etc..

Hence the greatness of God's grace.

 

[Aussie52]

People will always be imperfect this side of heaven. That is just a plain fact.

A believer empowered by the Holy Spirit can lessen sin in their lives, but cannot be morally or physically perfect. If they could, they would be God.

A believer may have overcome pornogaphy in their life, but still eats too much. Or has overcome being unfaithful, but spends money on gambling. Or doesn't gamble but is unfaithful.

A believer may have overcome all of these things, but they have an illness. Etc etc..

Hence the greatness of God's grace.

Christ said in Matt5:48, "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in Heaven is perfect".
This is a perfection in love.

Paul stated in Phil 3:15, "Therefore let us, as many as are perfect, have this mind etc"

So there is a perfection that is required of us and is available through the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

This is also known as entire sanctification,
" Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely (entirely, Wholley, )" 1 Thes 5:23a.

I, along with multitudes can testify to the reality of this experience, deliverance from the cycle of sinning and repenting.

 

[wattie]

Christ said in Matt5:48, "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in Heaven is perfect".
This is a perfection in love.

Paul stated in Phil 3:15, "Therefore let us, as many as are perfect, have this mind etc"

So there is a perfection that is required of us and is available through the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

This is also known as entire sanctification,
" Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely (entirely, Wholley, )" 1 Thes 5:23a.

I, along with multitudes can testify to the reality of this experience, deliverance from the cycle of sinning and repenting.

Yeah..the perfection to go onto for the believer..

That is maturity in the faith..but not complete sinlessness this side of heaven.

 

[homwardbound]

I did a search on the meaning of Revelation 22:11 and I think BibleRef gave a good explanation:

What does Revelation 22:11 mean?
The angel said to John: "Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy" (Revelation 22:11). The point being made here is not that evil is to be encouraged. Rather, the angel's words are a statement of inevitability: people can do as they choose, but God will not change His plans.

In the context of death and the end times, this is a dire warning. Unbelievers who reject the gospel do not receive a second chance to be saved if they die. Eternity does not change anyone's status. The person who dies in an unsaved condition will be unsaved throughout eternity, and the saved person will be saved throughout eternity.

When Jesus returns, He will reward the righteous but punish the unrighteous. Daniel 12:10 states that in the end time "Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly." Someday it will be too late for the unsaved to change their destination by repenting and believing in Jesus. Hebrews 3:15 implores: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts."

Believe, receive and see new and then automatically do love and mercy to all too, thank you Father and Son as Won (One)
Taking on your yoke and burden, it is simple and easy in belief from you to see and rest Inas called to do in Hebrews 4, thank you

 

[homwardbound]

Believe, receive and see new and then automatically do love and mercy to all too, thank you Father and Son as Won (One)
Taking on your yoke and burden, it is simple and easy in belief from you to see and rest Inas called to do in Hebrews 4, thank you

Oh, and not that I got it/ Phil 3, I stand in belief to what is done for me and all you'll too through the death, burial, resurrected Christ the way, the truth the new life offered everyone after the death willingly took away sin first in Father's sight for us to learn new in trust from mistakes made ever since one decides to beleive God personally

 

[DeanM]

I wonder how many on this site would claim sinless perfection? Im pretty at least sure one did awhile back.

 

[homwardbound]

I wonder how many on this site would claim sinless perfection? Im pretty at least sure one did awhile back.

Only Son in the only perfect flesh has sinless perfection and shares this truth with all that believe God seriously
Col 1 especially seen in verses 21:13 to me and many other places as well to appreciate and respond to in thanksgiving and praise and not use for self gain, thank you

 

[Reddogs]

Sinless perfection is an interesting concept. Good to strive for but never obtained in this world.

So we will go on sinning and be full of iniquity when Christ comes to take us to heaven, I would have to disagree on that.

 

[tourist]

I wonder how many on this site would claim sinless perfection? Im pretty at least sure one did awhile back.

That's not a claim that I would make for myself.

 

[DeanM]

So we will go on sinning and be full of iniquity when Christ comes to take us to heaven, I would have to disagree on that.

If you say you dont sin I have to disagree. Everybody does.

 

[EddieM]

So we will go on sinning and be full of iniquity when Christ comes to take us to heaven, I would have to disagree on that.

What do you mean by "full of iniquity"?

 

[DJT_47]

Victory over sin is via Christ. Does that mean we don't sin? Not really, it simply means Christ's blood is always there to continue to cleanse us. And read very carefully Romans 6 and 7. You're dead to sin being buried with Christ in baptism.

 

[TMS]

Yes
By the power of God in us.

 

[Aussie52]

Rom 6:1,2. Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it.

Rom 6:6. Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin.

Rom 6:14 for sin shall not have dominion over you.

Rom 6:15. Shall we sin because we are not under law bur under grace? Certainly not!

1 Jn 2:1. My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.

1 Jn 3:6. Whoever abides in Him does not sin.

1Jn 3:9. Whoever has been born of God does not sin.

From these Scriptures, and there are many more, we see that God expects the Christian to live without sin.

God, in His omnipotence provides the enabling ( Rom 8).

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Rom 6:1,2. Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it.

Rom 6:6. Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin.

Rom 6:14 for sin shall not have dominion over you.

Rom 6:15. Shall we sin because we are not under law bur under grace? Certainly not!

1 Jn 2:1. My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.

1 Jn 3:6. Whoever abides in Him does not sin.

1Jn 3:9. Whoever has been born of God does not sin.

From these Scriptures, and there are many more, we see that God expects the Christian to live without sin.

God, in His omnipotence provides the enabling ( Rom 8).

Yes, the key phrase is "sin will no longer have dominion over you" because of Jesus and His power, allowing Him to be Lord as well as Savior of your life. If you're genuinely in Christ you'll tend to sin far less and obey God more as you continue to yield to Him as your Lord.

 

[EddieM]

Rom 6:1,2. Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it.

Rom 6:6. Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin.

Rom 6:14 for sin shall not have dominion over you.

Rom 6:15. Shall we sin because we are not under law bur under grace? Certainly not!

1 Jn 2:1. My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.

1 Jn 3:6. Whoever abides in Him does not sin.

1Jn 3:9. Whoever has been born of God does not sin.

From these Scriptures, and there are many more, we see that God expects the Christian to live without sin.

God, in His omnipotence provides the enabling ( Rom 8).

This is not quite accurate. Let me explain 1 John 3.6. This chapter/book is about Positional Truth, not salvation. So in 1 Jn 3.6 for example John is saying that those who are in Christ (that is, those who have all known sins confessed) do not sin because being in fellowship with Christ means you are not sinning but walking in the light (fellowship). When a believer is in fellowship, he can not sin because he is being guided by the Holy Spirit. The only way we (believers) can sin, is to break fellowship with Christ, to removed ourselves from walking in the light, and we walk in darkness. John is very fond of using polar opposites. He uses light/dark, sin/fellowship to name a few. It is a great teaching aide to use these technique.

Also, a good example is that which is found in James chapter 1. James says we sin when we are lured out of the light/fellowship by sinning, and our immediate responsibility is to confess the sin so we are restored to fellowship. Confession is not a license to sin but a license to serve.

Walk in the light, for he is in the light.