Is There Grace in Having Hope?

[Snacks]

I knew a man who was active in his congregation for over 50 years. He attended worship service almost every Sunday, attended adult Sunday School and was a church leader. That said, he openly admitted that he did not believe what is written about Jesus. He searched, prayed, hoped and yearned for it to be true but ultimately doubt ruled his heart into his dying day.

Jesus is very clear that we are saved by grace through faith in Him, and those who deny Him will be denied by Him, yet this guy wanted to believe and hoped Jesus’ divinity is true. What is your opinion about this man’s eternal fate? I like to believe God’s grace is upon those who yearn and hope the message of the Gospel is true even though they lack faith.

 

[wattie]

I knew a man who was active in his congregation for over 50 years. He attended worship service almost every Sunday, attended adult Sunday School and was a church leader. That said, he openly admitted that he did not believe what is written about Jesus. He searched, prayed, hoped and yearned for it to be true but ultimately doubt ruled his heart into his dying day.

Jesus is very clear that we are saved by grace through faith in Him, and those who deny Him will be denied by Him, yet this guy wanted to believe and hoped Jesus’ divinity is true. What is your opinion about this man’s eternal fate? I like to believe God’s grace is upon those who yearn and hope the message of the Gospel is true even though they lack faith.

I can't see into the man's heart, only God can.

In saying this, the moment someone does place their faith in Christ, He does save them and give eternal life.

So people who were sincere with Christ and placed their faith in Him, could later become confused and caught up in thorns and thistles of the world.

It has happened to me. And to many Christians. There is no guarantee that a saved person will be a faithful believer.

Doubts are part and parcel of the walk with God. Just look at the people of Israel and their record of faith.. they don't represent the NT church exactly but show man's struggle.

I've been thru divorce. Its been 2 years since.. she has now got into a new relationship with another man. I struggled with her to be a strong leader and keep my faith strong. I didn't treat her as lovingly as I should.

These things do happen though!

I really get riled up on people who say 'they were never saved in the first place ' if a professing Christians appears wayward.

We can't see their heart! It wasn't works that got then saved.. they weren't saved because they were reducing sin in their lives.. they were saved solely because God saved them as they are.

Now .. there will be fruit of the Holy Spirit in being eternally saved. That is certain.. but some one who is definitely continuingly faithful? Not guaranteed

 

[Nehemiah6]

I can't see into the man's heart, only God can.

Yes. Only God knows what was the true spiritual condition of this person. At the same time there is absolutely no doubt that no one can have genuine faith in Christ and not believe that He is God. In fact, it would really be absurd. All the Gospels make it crystal clear that God took human form in order to die for our sins and rise again for our justification. So does the rest of the NT.

 

[oyster67]

I knew a man who was active in his congregation for over 50 years. He attended worship service almost every Sunday, attended adult Sunday School and was a church leader. That said, he openly admitted that he did not believe what is written about Jesus. He searched, prayed, hoped and yearned for it to be true but ultimately doubt ruled his heart into his dying day.

Jesus is very clear that we are saved by grace through faith in Him, and those who deny Him will be denied by Him, yet this guy wanted to believe and hoped Jesus’ divinity is true. What is your opinion about this man’s eternal fate? I like to believe God’s grace is upon those who yearn and hope the message of the Gospel is true even though they lack faith.

This man entertained doubt. That is not the kind of hope that is required. Doubt is a choice. One chooses either doubt or faith. There is no middle ground.

 

[oyster67]

James 1:8

“A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.”

 

[Dirtman]

Yeah, that is God's domain alone. Only He can answer that question.
I can however say this; humans are strange because we are capable of all manner of dissonance. We can convince ourselves that do or do not, think, feel, or believe things against the reality.
I can testify this myself. Anecdote; I have done very dangerous jobs and in hazardous conditions. I have even handled venomous snakes (out of necessity not bravado, or weird religious stuff), and was convinced that I did not fear death. Until I for the first time ever took a flight in a very small airplane. That was a white knuckle experience that humbled me. I had to repent to God that I had so boldly puffed myself up.
So here is my point. It's very possible that he did believe and was fooling himself. But I am neither him nor God so I don't know what was in his heart.
I simply hope he was wrong and that God has had mercy on him.

 

[Snacks]

I can't see into the man's heart, only God can.

In saying this, the moment someone does place their faith in Christ, He does save them and give eternal life.

So people who were sincere with Christ and placed their faith in Him, could later become confused and caught up in thorns and thistles of the world.

It has happened to me. And to many Christians. There is no guarantee that a saved person will be a faithful believer.

Doubts are part and parcel of the walk with God. Just look at the people of Israel and their record of faith.. they don't represent the NT church exactly but show man's struggle.

I've been thru divorce. Its been 2 years since.. she has now got into a new relationship with another man. I struggled with her to be a strong leader and keep my faith strong. I didn't treat her as lovingly as I should.

These things do happen though!

I really get riled up on people who say 'they were never saved in the first place ' if a professing Christians appears wayward.

We can't see their heart! It wasn't works that got then saved.. they weren't saved because they were reducing sin in their lives.. they were saved solely because God saved them as they are.

Now .. there will be fruit of the Holy Spirit in being eternally saved. That is certain.. but some one who is definitely continuingly faithful? Not guaranteed

Thank you for sharing as you have. I truly pray God’s peace will be upon you in all facets of life, especially regarding your faith and life after marriage. I appreciate your honesty about moments of doubt; that hits home. Thank God for His grace.

 

[Snacks]

James 1:8

“A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.”

There’s something inherently different between unapologetically denying Christ and earnestly searching over the course of a lifetime with a hopeful heart but to no avail. I know what calvinists would say but I’m not interested in that heretical garbage.

 

[phil36]

The Parable of the Sower

4 Again he began to teach beside the sea. And a very large crowd gathered about him, so that he got into a boat and sat in it on the sea, and the whole crowd was beside the sea on the land. 2 And he was teaching them many things in parables, and in his teaching he said to them: 3 “Listen! Behold, a sower went out to sow. 4 And as he sowed, some seed fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured it. 5 Other seed fell on rocky ground, where it did not have much soil, and immediately it sprang up, since it had no depth of soil. 6 And when the sun rose, it was scorched, and since it had no root, it withered away. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked it, and it yielded no grain. 8 And other seeds fell into good soil and produced grain, growing up and increasing and yielding thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold.” 9 And he said, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

The Purpose of the Parables
10 And when he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. 11 And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, 12 so that

“‘they may indeed see but not perceive,
and may indeed hear but not understand,
lest they should turn and be forgiven.’”

13 And he said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? 14 The sower sows the word. 15 And these are the ones along the path, where the word is sown: when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that is sown in them. 16 And these are the ones sown on rocky ground: the ones who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy. 17 And they have no root in themselves, but endure for a while; then, when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately they fall away.[a] 18 And others are the ones sown among thorns. They are those who hear the word, 19 but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. 20 But those that were sown on the good soil are the ones who hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold.”

Mark 4:1-20

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I would say there is no hope without grace. as for this person. Only God knows

 

[Snacks]

I would say there is no hope without grace. as for this person. Only God knows

But is there grace in hope?

 

[JohnDB]

When I talk about my relationship with my wife there's no doubt in anyone's mind that she is a real person and we have regular interaction.

When I talk about my relationship with God...it's not the exact same sort of relationship that I have with a human but....very much real and solid just like the relationship with my wife.

And this is the part that confuses people. I see all kinds of people not understanding their relationship with God or God Himself. Where I understand that God deals differently with different people....God is God...not an energy force, not absentee, not some sort of Santa, and not exactly silent. He is a person and personable. He has feelings. He gave us a task to do and we need to do it. God doesn't need us. We are not crucial to him.

That being said....just because God doesn't "talk" to us through normal means doesn't mean that He is silent. I have yet to meet a modern day "prophet" that wasn't full of cesspool solids. But I have seen miracles and signs and clear messages. And when God "talks" to you its extremely scary. I may be a touch crazy but I'm not stupid enough to try and defy God.

Sure, anyone on the outside looking in can dismiss it all as hooey. And that's purposeful on God's part. But to the ones He speaks to....nope....only an extreme reverent fear and unwavering hope. That's the relationship....that's when you know they have one. And they are hidden. Because they are uncountable like Sand grains of the shore; Stars in the sky.

 

[phil36]

But is there grace in hope?

What type of hope I think is the question

Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for Heb 11:1-2.

So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal 2 Cor 4:18.

"May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope”Rom15:13.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

But is there grace in hope?

Faith is the substance of things hoped for.

Without grace there is no hope. And without hope there is no faith.

Did the person have faith in The gospel message.. that is the question.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Quite simply no, there's no saving grace in hope alone.

I knew a man who was active in his congregation for over 50 years. He attended worship service almost every Sunday, attended adult Sunday School and was a church leader. That said, he openly admitted that he did not believe what is written about Jesus. He searched, prayed, hoped and yearned for it to be true but ultimately doubt ruled his heart into his dying day.

Do you know if he ever truly believed and acted on his beliefs? I'm not OSAS no matter what, but I don't think God would send someone to Hell for having a momentary lapse.

I like to believe God’s grace is upon those who yearn and hope the message of the Gospel is true even though they lack faith.

No, it's not. However, if someone sincerely wants to know truth I believe He will reveal it to him or her.

 

[studentoftheword]

I like to believe God’s grace is upon those who yearn and hope the message of the Gospel is true even though they lack faith.

There are 3 kinds of Faith ---Human Faith --Demonic Faith and Saving Faith -----Human faith and Demonic are not producing Faiths ----only Saving Faith Produces ------James 2 describes the 3 kinds of Faith ----

You need to have Saving Faith to be Saved -----and saving Faith comes by hearing ---believing and receiving the truth of the Gospel -----Salvation is for the here and now ---there are no second chances after you die ---If one rejects Jesus the Son -they also Reject God the Father as the 2 are one ---and for that person there is no hope in diverting the 2nd death -------Saving Grace comes through Saving Faith -both come from hearing --believing and receiving the truth -of the Gospel ----

The person has to drawn by God to have their hardened heart softened to be open to hear His Word -----no one can open their own heart to have Saving Faith or Grace ----all hope is lost for anyone thinking they don't need the right Faith in their end

John 10:30-38 CEB
30 I and the Father are one.”

1 CORINTHIANS 2:14
AMPC
But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.

 

[Snacks]

Did the person have faith in The gospel message.. that is the question.

I want to make sure I answer your question properly and because of that I’m asking if you can elaborate with specifics.

 

[Snacks]

There are 3 kinds of Faith ---Human Faith --Demonic Faith and Saving Faith -----Human faith and Demonic are not producing Faiths ----only Saving Faith Produces ------James 2 describes the 3 kinds of Faith ----

You need to have Saving Faith to be Saved -----and saving Faith comes by hearing ---believing and receiving the truth of the Gospel -----Salvation is for the here and now ---there are no second chances after you die ---If one rejects Jesus the Son -they also Reject God the Father as the 2 are one ---and for that person there is no hope in diverting the 2nd death -------Saving Grace comes through Saving Faith -both come from hearing --believing and receiving the truth -of the Gospel ----

The person has to drawn by God to have their hardened heart softened to be open to hear His Word -----no one can open their own heart to have Saving Faith or Grace ----all hope is lost for anyone thinking they don't need the right Faith in their end

John 10:30-38 CEB
30 I and the Father are one.”

1 CORINTHIANS 2:14
AMPC
But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.

I like the Scripture you shared; it’s powerful and informative, but as far as the gentleman I speak of, the Gospel was not folly or meaningless nonsense. I equate him with doubting Thomas. He was a scientist; seeing is believing.

 

[Snacks]

God doesn't need us. We are not crucial to him.

Because God walked the earth and died on the cross for us it would seem we are very crucial to him. However, your point is well taken.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I want to make sure I answer your question properly and because of that I’m asking if you can elaborate with specifics.

The Gospel says we are sinners. And as such we are dead to God.

The gospel says the only way to be redeemed of this death is to recieve Christs offer of salvation in faith.

Did he do that?