Is there a difference between the new and old covenant?

[Godswilling]

Hi everyone,

Other then the old is old and new is new, what are the differences of the old and new covenant ( Moses ) , I am asking because I do not see any difference, both are about keeping the law?

Also please use scripture.

Thank you and have a good Easter.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

When reading The Word of God in Old and New Testament, by using own understanding or Man's Intellect, there is a big difference.
Yes it is very clear in man's understanding that Jesus changed the commandments;
Here are some of them.
MATTHEW 5:21-2
21 “You have heard that it was said to those [a]of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother [b]without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.

MATTHEW 5:27
27 “You have heard that it was said [f]to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

MATTHEW 5:31
31 “Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except [i]sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

MATTHEW 5:33
33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of [j]old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 But let [k]your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

MATTHEW 5:38-39
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also

It is very clear that Jesus changed the commandments in the Old Testament and he gave a new commandments in The New Testament.
JOHN 13:34
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

But this is the warning of The Lord:
By not using Man's Understanding is equivalent to Thrusting The Lord.
PROVERBS 3:5
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;

Because if we ask Jesus if he really changed The Commandments in The Old Testaments?
Jesus answer is he did not changed them and in fact he followed them.
MATTHEW 5:17
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

The message of the Lord is very clear in Proverbs 3:5

Question: How to study The Word of God if Man's Understanding is not applicable;
Answer: Beg for Mercy of God because to understand The Words of God requires a Divine Revelation.

 

[TMS]

Hi everyone,

Other then the old is old and new is new, what are the differences of the old and new covenant ( Moses ) , I am asking because I do not see any difference, both are about keeping the law?

Also please use scripture.

Thank you and have a good Easter.

Galatians 4
Many have been confused over the allegory Paul used to illustrate the Old and New Covenants. Here is the way he wrote about it: "For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a free-woman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children." Verses 22-25.

Paul portrays Isaac and Ishmael, the two sons of Abraham, as representing the Old and New Covenants. He plainly shows that Hagar's son, Ishmael, symbolizes the Old Covenant, and Sarah's son, Isaac, is a type of the New Covenant. "Now we, brethren as Isaac was, are the children of promise. ... So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free." Verses 28-31.

This is interesting. How do those sons of those two women represent the two covenants? Actually, they are a perfect illustration. God had promised Abraham a son by his wife Sarah, but because she was almost 90 years old, neither of them believed such a thing could happen. Sarah knew that her womb was dead and that she was long past the age for bearing children. So she suggested that her husband take Hagar, her handmaid, and have a child by her. It seemed the only way to rescue God from an impossible promise. In time, Abraham yielded to the face-saving device and had a child by Hagar.

Here is an exact illustration of the Old Covenant principle of "we will do." We will do it ourself. Abraham tried to work it out in the flesh, according to human effort and planning. The old arrangement failed just as surely as the Old Covenant promises failed, because there was no dependence on divine power. God did not ever recognize Ishmael as the promised seed.

When Isaac was born, it was a miracle. God actually created a new life out of a biologically barren womb. The physical impossibilities yielded to the supernatural, creative power of God. Isaac perfectly represents the principle of the New Covenant relationship based upon regeneration, a new-birth experience, which begets the life of the Son of God in all who believe. The natural, physical womb of Sarah was totally incapable of producing any fruit. In the same way, the natural, carnal body and mind of a sinner cannot bring forth the fruit of obedience. When God used His power to create a new life within Sarah, the impossible happened, and she bore a son. When God uses His power to create new life in the soul, the impossible happens again - a human being becomes spiritual and obedient.

Isaac was not "born after the flesh," but "after the Spirit." Galatians 4:29. Because man is carnal and "weak in the flesh," he has no power to attain to the righteousness of the law. He, too, must be born after the Spirit. Every attempt to obey on the Old-Covenant basis of human effort will produce only children of bondage. The law must be written into the heart by the Holy Spirit and fulfilled by "Christ in you."

This allegory of Hagar and Sarah clears up another very important point of truth. Those who are under the Old Covenant are the commandment breakers, and those under the New Covenant are the commandment keepers. It was only when Abraham disobeyed God by taking Hagar that he fulfilled the principle of the Old Covenant. When he trusted God to give him a son through Sarah, he was being obedient to God's will, and properly represents the New-Covenant Christians. Yet how often do modern interpreters get these facts confused! The law is not really kept until it is written on the heart of the transformed believer. Then it becomes the mark of identification - the love symbol - for those who are born of the Spirit. Jesus said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15. John wrote, "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments." 1 John 5:3.

 

[TMS]

The law
the law of Moses
The book of the law

The same law Moses was the mediator who received the Ten Commandments and wrote the entire book of Israel’s law

“The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:56‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Sin = death. Sin is defined by the law.

Is sin around today?
Sin is the transgression of the law.

We are made free from the penalty of the law. Jesus died for our sin.

The law is still condemning us of sin but thanks to Jesus we can be forgiven and freed by grace.

The law of God is unchanging.

Sin has not changed. The God I serve does not change His standards of right and wrong.

Rom 8:3-5
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

We can keep the law in Christ.

 

[TMS]

The law was in both the new and old covenants.

But it is impossible for the 10 commandments to be the old covenant.

Heb 8:6-10....

"a better covenant, which was established upon better promises."
The Ten commandments were from God and you can't say they could be better. To say the law that God directly gave were needing to be better is to say God is not perfect or the best.

"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: "
If the 10 commandments were faulty, the giver is also faulty. God doesn't do anything faulty. So the Ten commandments can not be the faulty old covenant.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
God said He would write the law on their minds... our minds.

We are God's people because we obey by His power.
The Spirit in us = obedience.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Yeah I think I quoted that several times lol God appointed Moses mediator between he and Israel’s children and made a covenant with them through Moses ……..your just set on arguing about anything it seems like at this point God spoke the Ten Commandments first…..he spoke them to the children of Israel and the. Made a covenant based on the mediations of Moses with those ten laws as a foundation it’s all one law of you are a Christian all you need is the gospel that’s enough to lead us to righteousness the law can’t do that whether you want to say it’s not the law of Moses

“And he wrote there upon the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he wrote in the presence of the children of Israel.”
‭‭Joshua‬ ‭8:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s called the law of Moses because like the lord said

“For the law was given by Moses,

but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

those are the names of the mediators of each covenant Moses words and Jesus words moses mediated the Ten Commandments and everything else for Israel until he died for his own sin and Joshua took over and led them into Israel and then of course he read the law of Moses to them the Ten Commandments being the first

“as Moses the servant of the LORD had commanded before, that they should bless the people of Israel. And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law.

There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the congregation of Israel, with the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that were conversant among them.”
‭‭Joshua‬ ‭8:33-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The law
the law of Moses
The book of the law

The same law Moses was the mediator who received the Ten Commandments and wrote the entire book of Israel’s law

“The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:56‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I guess you can do the hoop jumping and try to now create a bunch of different laws and somehow try to remove the Ten Commandments from the law mediated by Moses or the “law of Moses “ but it’s sort of seeming like wasted time for me at this point

i appreciate the conversation and good spirit either way and hope you begin to hear the apostles in tbe New Testament and what they teach regarding the law

No one is taught to keep sinning by Jesus he’s able to lead us out of it but not by the Ten Commandments

Mediator is not the same as being written by God's finger. You claimed Moses wrote God's Ten Commandment- scripture says God did.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

“and by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭13:39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is why it’s called the law of “Moses “
After the people heard Gods voice like a trumpet and saw the fire they said this to Moses making him the mediator

“Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any more, then we shall die.

Go thou near, and hear all that the LORD our God shall say: and speak thou unto us all that the LORD our God shall speak unto thee; and we will hear it, and do it.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭5:25, 27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they chose Moses to be the next ne to go close to god and hear what he said and then come back and tell them what he said and they had agreed that whatever it was they would obey it all

moses then concedes and enters into the cloud where he Moses will receive the Ten Commandments and he will lead israel into the promised land with thier law. “ the law of Moses is another way to say the word of Moses “

These people needed a law

“And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭32:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Look what God says to them after the experience in the desert with them and just before moses is going to die

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Depart, and go up hence, thou and the people which thou hast brought up out of the land of Egypt, unto the land which I sware unto Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, saying, Unto thy seed will I give it: and I will send an angel before thee; and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite: unto a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go up in the midst of thee; for thou art a stiffnecked people: lest I consume thee in the way.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭33:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Furthermore the LORD spake unto me, saying, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: let me alone, that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭9:13-14‬ ‭

Later thier descendants

“And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim: and they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods, of the gods of the people that were round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the LORD to anger. And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth.”
‭‭Judges‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭

To thier descendants

“Now be ye not stiffnecked, as your fathers were, but yield yourselves unto the LORD, and enter into his sanctuary, which he hath sanctified for ever: and serve the LORD your God, that the fierceness of his wrath may turn away from you.”
‭‭2 Chronicles‬ ‭30:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

…..can you see how telling sinful people “ don’t sin “ is never going to make anyone righteous ?

abut the doctrine in the gospel is completely different it’s new and better and can take a sinner and make them righteous actually change them from a sinful person in thier hesrt to a righteous person in thier heart

If our heart is right we’ll never kill anyone we don’t need to be told anymore , we won’t commit adultery or steal from one another ect if we get our heart right we’ll never need to be told not to do evil ……we’ll just be able to follow our new heart filled with the right information on the gospel

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You're changing what was asked- where does it say Christ was born "under the law of Moses"

The law of Moses is what condemned and contained the curses those for not keeping what was inside the Ark of the Covenant- the Ten Commandments. One was blessed when keeping what was inside the Ten Commandments.

Deut 31:26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;

Jesus took that curse for us- not so we can profane His Ten Commandments and sin- why He taught not to break the least of these commandments or teach others as one would be in fear of sin and judgement. Mat 5:19-30

People like to throw out God's law with the law of Moses, but its not what Jesus taught. He taught not a jot or tittle can be changed as no one is above God. Instead of bringing an animal sacrifice when we sin, which is still breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 the Ten Commandments Rom 7:7 breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12 we can go directly to Jesus when we sin and repent, which means a change of heart and direction. If we don't even recognize God's Ten Commandments as the law to show us our sins- Rom 3:20 it really puts someone in a bad spot. Pro 28:13 Heb 10:26-30 Rev 22:15 compared to overcoming Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14

 

[Dino246]

Can you point out where it says “law of Moses”. There are lots of laws in scriptures. Not all laws are the law of Moses.

God takes credit for writing the Ten Commandments, not Moses.

You're splitting hairs and being silly. It's obvious that Jesus was born under the Law as delivered through Moses.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

You're splitting hairs and being silly. It's obvious that Jesus was born under the Law as delivered through Moses.

The law of Moses is not the Ten Commandments. Why it was placed outside the ark of the Covenant placed there as a witness against for breaking what was inside the Ten Commandments written personally by the finger of God that all man will be judged by. James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30 Ecc 12:13-14 Rev 22:14-15

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Sin = death. Sin is defined by the law.

Is sin around today?
Sin is the transgression of the law.

We are made free from the penalty of the law. Jesus died for our sin.

The law is still condemning us of sin but thanks to Jesus we can be forgiven and freed by grace.

The law of God is unchanging.

Sin has not changed. The God I serve does not change His standards of right and wrong.

Rom 8:3-5
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

We can keep the law in Christ.

“Sin = death. Sin is defined by the law. “

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4, 6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:1, 4-6‬ ‭

if you folks want to go back to a law that is without Christ and was made with a particular stiffnecked people it isn’t my business

This isn’t our path

“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and wonder ot says don’t kill don’t lie don’t commit adultery don’t worship other gods it’s for those folks …..

But I guess Paul just doesn’t understand about Christianity and the law

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And soneone else will explain we need to swear to keep that darn law of Moses or we’re just fools . It’s mind boggling sometimes here I personally don’t want to be cursed by the law I’d rather be free with Jesus

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Mediator is not the same as being written by God's finger. You claimed Moses wrote God's Ten Commandment- scripture says God did.

Lol man you have absolutely no position I suppose I pointed out God wrote them more than once naw I even quoted it

This is just not really a good use of our time. You seem to just have ignore what’s there like for instance

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,

till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;

and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.( fsther son holy ghost )

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-12, 19-20, 23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it seems like a waste of time I’m here o my yo talk about what the Bible actually teaches and you can’t address anything I continually am quoting to you that’s telling you about the law it’s a waste of our time. If you can’t address all the scriptire telling you plainly then we’re just wasting our time

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You're changing what was asked- where does it say Christ was born "under the law of Moses"

The law of Moses is what condemned and contained the curses those for not keeping what was inside the Ark of the Covenant- the Ten Commandments. One was blessed when keeping what was inside the Ten Commandments.

Deut 31:26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;

Jesus took that curse for us- not so we can profane His Ten Commandments and sin- why He taught not to break the least of these commandments or teach others as one would be in fear of sin and judgement. Mat 5:19-30

People like to throw out God's law with the law of Moses, but its not what Jesus taught. He taught not a jot or tittle can be changed as no one is above God. Instead of bringing an animal sacrifice when we sin, which is still breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 the Ten Commandments Rom 7:7 breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12 we can go directly to Jesus when we sin and repent, which means a change of heart and direction. If we don't even recognize God's Ten Commandments as the law to show us our sins- Rom 3:20 it really puts someone in a bad spot. Pro 28:13 Heb 10:26-30 Rev 22:15 compared to overcoming Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14

“You're changing what was asked- where does it say Christ was born "under the law of Moses"”

im convinced at this point it’s impossible to discuss scripture with you

the law of Moses is everything written in the five Books of Moses. It’s the only reason you or anyone else knows about Ten Commandments God gave to Moses for the people of israel but I’ve also quoted that to you and it has no effect lol it’s wuote entertaining at this point how you will wiggle to avoid scripture

 

[SabbathBlessing]

As stated previously. The law that defines sin when transgressed - the Ten Commandments Romans 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 cannot be the same law that was added for breaking God's law.

God's Ten Commandments has always been - without law- there is no sin. Lucifer sinned in heaven- He broke God's law. 1 John 3:8 Adam and Eve sinned in the garden- it was more than not eating from the forbidden tree- they broke all kinds of commandments when they coveted and stole something that didn't belong to them and breaking the very first commandment when they believed the words of the "other spirit" over the Words of God- same problem we have today. Cain new it was "sin" when he killed Abel because without law there is no transgression Rom 4:15 therefore he was given the commandment to thou shalt not murder only found in the Ten Commandments that Jesus in His own Words said is what is sin and what we will be judged by Mat 5:19-30 and taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these Mat 5:19-30 because when we keep our rules over obeying the commandments of God our hearts are far from God. Mat 15:3-14 He wants our hearts close to Him which is why He wrote His law in our hearts Heb 8:10. When we reject His law- we are an enmity against God Rom 8:7-8

God's commandments are His righteous way of living Psa 119:172 and His righteousness is everlasting Psa 119:142 just as His law is as it is a reflection of God's character, people reject God's law because they want to depend on their righteousness - the same issue Lucifer had and why we are in this mess in the first place. God is not trying to punish us with His commandments but to bless and sanctify Isa 56:1-6 Rev 22:14 Eze 20:12 . They are perfect for converting the soul Psa 19:7 He wants us depending on Him and if we have Christ in us we would be keeping all of His righteous and holy commandments through faith and love.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree. All will get sorted out soon enough because Jesus is coming back soon and I pray we will all be ready.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You're changing what was asked- where does it say Christ was born "under the law of Moses"

The law of Moses is what condemned and contained the curses those for not keeping what was inside the Ark of the Covenant- the Ten Commandments. One was blessed when keeping what was inside the Ten Commandments.

Deut 31:26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;

Jesus took that curse for us- not so we can profane His Ten Commandments and sin- why He taught not to break the least of these commandments or teach others as one would be in fear of sin and judgement. Mat 5:19-30

People like to throw out God's law with the law of Moses, but its not what Jesus taught. He taught not a jot or tittle can be changed as no one is above God. Instead of bringing an animal sacrifice when we sin, which is still breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 the Ten Commandments Rom 7:7 breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12 we can go directly to Jesus when we sin and repent, which means a change of heart and direction. If we don't even recognize God's Ten Commandments as the law to show us our sins- Rom 3:20 it really puts someone in a bad spot. Pro 28:13 Heb 10:26-30 Rev 22:15 compared to overcoming Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14

“And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭31:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And this is the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death. And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, And rose up from Seir unto them; He shined forth from mount Paran, And he came with ten thousands of saints: From his right hand went a fiery law for them. Yea, he loved the people; All his saints are in thy hand: And they sat down at thy feet; Every one shall receive of thy words. Moses commanded us a law, Even the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob. And he was king in Jeshurun, When the heads of the people And the tribes of Israel were gathered together.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭33:1-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And this is the law which Moses set before the children of Israel: these are the testimonies, and the statutes, and the judgments, which Moses spake unto the children of Israel, after they came forth out of Egypt,”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭4:44-45‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?”
‭‭John‬ ‭7:19‬ ‭

“He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s called Moses law because he is the one chosen to mediate a relationship between God and the people . You are speaking about things youve never read and retained and don’t understand

“For the law was given by Moses,

but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There is no seperate law that God made without Moses mediation Moses went up and dealt with God he received the commandments and all the judgements he was given for those rebellious people. There’s a reason Hod said he would make a new covenant that wasn’t according to the covenant he made with them when he led them out of Egypt

No matter how you try to spin it god gave the Ten Commandments to Moses upon Mount Sinai . That is what Moses law is built upon those are the fort ten commands of Moses law given to him by God before they worshipped the calf and cursed themselves by breaking his covenant when God handed them over to the angels to worship

“saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him. ( Moses was getting the Ten Commandments from God on Sinai ) And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices By the space of forty years in the wilderness? Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, And the star of your god Remphan, Figures which ye made to worship them: And I will carry you away beyond Babylon.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:40-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s almost like you’ve never read any of this stuff or maybe it’s not sinking in because you already know better n your own mind

 

[Pilgrimshope]

As stated previously. The law that defines sin when transgressed - the Ten Commandments Romans 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 cannot be the same law that was added for breaking God's law.

God's Ten Commandments has always been - without law- there is no sin. Lucifer sinned in heaven- He broke God's law. 1 John 3:8 Adam and Eve sinned in the garden- it was more than not eating from the forbidden tree- they broke all kinds of commandments when they coveted and stole something that didn't belong to them and breaking the very first commandment when they believed the words of the "other spirit" over the Words of God- same problem we have today. Cain new it was "sin" when he killed Abel because without law there is no transgression Rom 4:15 therefore he was given the commandment to thou shalt not murder only found in the Ten Commandments that Jesus in His own Words said is what is sin and what we will be judged by Mat 5:19-30 and taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these Mat 5:19-30 because when we keep our rules over obeying the commandments of God our hearts are far from God. Mat 15:3-14 He wants our hearts close to Him which is why He wrote His law in our hearts Heb 8:10. When we reject His law- we are an enmity against God Rom 8:7-8

God's commandments are His righteous way of living Psa 119:172 and His righteousness is everlasting Psa 119:142 just as His law is as it is a reflection of God's character, people reject God's law because they want to depend on their righteousness - the same issue Lucifer had and why we are in this mess in the first place. God is not trying to punish us with His commandments but to bless and sanctify Isa 56:1-6 Rev 22:14 Eze 20:12 . They are perfect for converting the soul Psa 19:7 He wants us depending on Him and if we have Christ in us we would be keeping all of His righteous and holy commandments through faith and love.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree. All will get sorted out soon enough because Jesus is coming back soon and I pray we will all be ready.

“As stated previously. The law that defines sin when transgressed - the Ten Commandments Romans 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 cannot be the same law that was added for breaking God's law. “

your quotes make no sense to support what your saying are you just randomly writing numbers ?

Do You think the Ten Commandments were given to Adam in Eden ?

Or have you read the bible and understand they came along well after israel had been in Egypt four hundred years and were given to Moses upon Sinai ? 430 years after the gospel was promised to Abraham ?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

“As stated previously. The law that defines sin when transgressed - the Ten Commandments Romans 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 cannot be the same law that was added for breaking God's law. “

your quotes make no sense to support what your saying are you just randomly writing numbers ?

Do You think the Ten Commandments were given to Adam in Eden ?

Or have you read the bible and understand they came along well after israel had been in Egypt four hundred years and were given to Moses upon Sinai ? 430 years after the gospel was promised to Abraham ?

The Ten Commandments was a copy of what was in heaven. The earthy sanctuary was a copy of the heavenly one. Heb 8:1-5 which is why God's ark of the covenant that Lucifer used to cover Ezekiel 28:14 is in heaven just as scripture states Rev 11:19 It did not start in Mt Sinai, God wrote it with His own finger and spoke to the whole nation of Israel which represent His people in Mt Sinai. They already knew God's law before given at Mt Sinai.

Where there is no law there is no transgression. Heb 4:15 God needs a standard to Judge by and why Jesus said the commandments of God quoting from the Ten is what sin is and what we will be judged by Mat 5:19-30 breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12 The law that defines sin Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 cannot be the same law that was added for transgressing God's law. Hence why the law of Moses was outside the ark of the covenant. Deut 31:26

 

[SabbathBlessing]

The Ten Commandments was a copy of what was in heaven. The earthy sanctuary was a copy of the heavenly one. Heb 8:1-5 which is why God's ark of the covenant that Lucifer used to cover Ezekiel 28:14 is in heaven just as scripture states Rev 11:19 It did not start in Mt Sinai, God wrote it with His own finger and spoke to the whole nation of Israel which represent His people in Mt Sinai. They already knew God's law before given at Mt Sinai.

Where there is no law there is no transgression. Heb 4:15 God needs a standard to Judge by and why Jesus said the commandments of God quoting from the Ten is what sin is and what we will be judged by Mat 5:19-30 breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12 The law that defines sin Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 cannot be the same law that was added for transgressing God's law. Hence why the law of Moses was outside the ark of the covenant. Deut 31:26

Where there is no law there is no transgression. -sorry scripture reference is Rom 4:15, not Heb 4:15

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The Ten Commandments was a copy of what was in heaven. The earthy sanctuary was a copy of the heavenly one. Heb 8:1-5 which is why God's ark of the covenant that Lucifer used to cover Ezekiel 28:14 is in heaven just as scripture states Rev 11:19

Where there is no law there is no transgression. God needs a standard to Judge by and why Jesus said the commandments of God quoting from the Ten is what sin is and what we will be judged by Mat 5:19-30 and the law that defines sin cannot be the same law that was added for transgressing God's law.

So there’s a lot of worship of other gods in heaven then ? Lord of murder ? Adultery ? Coveting ? Comon man there’s no shame in learning

why didnt God tell cain “ thou shalt not kill ?” Why did that come after cain killed ?

because if you aren’t dealing with a killer you never have to tell them not to kill sin comes before the law that’s why the law came man became sinful but we did t know the difference in good and evil ( forbidden knowledge in Eden )

that’s why the law came later to define what sin was and that it’s result is death

That’s what the law is all about he’s speaking to a people that didn’t know what sin was or that there was a difference in what we do the law needed to come into the world for this reason only before the gospel came

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Until Moses received the law no one had any baseline from God about what was sin and what was right sin filled the earth first and then God gave the law so that man can recognize thier sins and repent and believe the truth of the gospel and be redeemed from that state that requires a law for sinful rebellious people

“dont do this it’s sin “ if anyone does this they must be out to death “

this is sin don’t do it

“Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

or else this will surely be done to you

“And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭20:10‬ ‭

You don’t take righteous people who would never commit adultery and start telling them don’t commit adultery that’s only going to tempt the sinful nature and it’s why the law wasn’t sufficient to save sinners

“What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. ( not covering is a ten commandment the law gives the knowledge of sin )

But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

( it backfired because man was wicked it only tempted thier flesh by introducing sin man was corrupted the holy law boy served to put then to death because they were sinners all like us )

For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:7-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the idea is you can’t take a person that’s wicked in thoer heart and mind in thier soul and tell them not to sin but to always do exactly as they are commanded it will never work it’s only going to make them more rebellious because that’s who they are

the difference in the law and gospel is the difference of how you speak to inmates on death row and how you speak to free people who aren’t criminals

 

[SabbathBlessing]

So there’s a lot of worship of other gods in heaven then ? Lord of murder ? Adultery ? Coveting ? Comon man there’s no shame in learning

why didnt God tell cain “ thou shalt not kill ?” Why did that come after cain killed ?

because if you aren’t dealing with a killer you never have to tell them not to kill sin comes before the law that’s why the law came man became sinful but we did t know the difference in good and evil ( forbidden knowledge in Eden )

that’s why the law came later to define what sin was and that it’s result is death

That’s what the law is all about he’s speaking to a people that didn’t know what sin was or that there was a difference in what we do the law needed to come into the world for this reason only before the gospel came

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Until Moses received the law no one had any baseline from God about what was sin and what was right sin filled the earth first and then God gave the law so that man can recognize thier sins and repent and believe the truth of the gospel and be redeemed from that state that requires a law for sinful rebellious people

“dont do this it’s sin “ if anyone does this they must be out to death “

this is sin don’t do it

“Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

or else this will surely be done to you

“And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭20:10‬ ‭

You don’t take righteous people who would never commit adultery and start telling them don’t commit adultery that’s only going to tempt the sinful nature and it’s why the law wasn’t sufficient to save sinners

“What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. ( not covering is a ten commandment the law gives the knowledge of sin )

But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

( it backfired because man was wicked it only tempted thier flesh by introducing sin man was corrupted the holy law boy served to put then to death because they were sinners all like us )

For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:7-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the idea is you can’t take a person that’s wicked in thoer heart and mind in thier soul and tell them not to sin but to always do exactly as they are commanded it will never work it’s only going to make them more rebellious because that’s who they are

the difference in the law and gospel is the difference of how you speak to inmates on death row and how you speak to free people who aren’t criminals

Jesus spoke about the Ten Commandments showing they mean much more than stated Mat 5:19-30. You don't think Lucifer committed spiritual adultery in heaven when he chose his righteousness over God's? Scripture says he was a murderer from the beginning John 8:44. Where is the law that tells us not to murder- The Ten Commandments. No law no sin.

We have a righteous God and no judge can judge without a law to judge by. If one wants to cover God's law and say we don't have to keep despite the warning from Jesus not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments as one would be in fear and judgement Mat 5:19-30- that's a choice one can make.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree. All gets sorted out soon enough.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Jesus spoke about the Ten Commandments showing they mean much more than stated Mat 5:19-30. You don't think Lucifer committed spiritual adultery in heaven? Scripture says he was a murderer from the beginning John 8:44. Where is the law that tells us not to murder- The Ten Commandments.

We have a righteous God and no Judge can judge without a law to judge by. If you want to cover God's law and say we don't have to keep despite the warning from Jesus not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19-30- thats a choice one can make.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Yeah we definately disagree that’s what I was saying it seems a waste of time you haven’t touched on any of the mounds of scripture plainly stating the case you just avoid it and say others are mixed up about the law

air you read the five Books of Moses you will understand it alot better paying close attention to Gods communications with Moses what he appointed him to do and what he told him would come about later in the messiah and his words

a that’s the stuff in the law meant for us Christian’s the things Moses was foretelling about Jesus and his words in the gospel the actual lawgiver

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Yeah we definately disagree that’s what I was saying it seems a waste of time you haven’t touched on any of the mounds of scripture plainly stating the case you just avoid it and say others are mixed up about the law

air you read the five Books of Moses you will understand it alot better paying close attention to Gods communications with Moses what he appointed him to do and what he told him would come about later in the messiah and his words

a that’s the stuff in the law meant for us Christian’s the things Moses was foretelling about Jesus and his words in the gospel the actual lawgiver

Jesus wrote the Ten Commandments.

You're argument is with a much Higher Authority than I. Jesus taught them, kept them and told us to. Mat 5:17-30, Mat 19:17-19 Mat 15:3-15 Mark 7:7-13. God's people keep God's commandments through faith and love 1 John 5:3 John 14:15 Exo 20:6 Rom 3:31 Rev 14:12 which reconciles us Rev 22:14. Sin separates us Isa 59:12 Rev 22:15 Mat 5:19 Mat 7:21-23 Heb 10:26-30 The path we end up on is based on our choices Rom 6:16. Jesus said enter by the narrow gate, following the popular crowd is never a good idea Mat 15:3-14