Is Speaking in Tongues still available today?

[FollowerofShiloh]

That sounds like disorder and disregard of Paul's teachings in I Corinthians 14 to me. Look at verse 28. Back up in the chapter. When we pray in church, we are supposed to do it in a way that builds up the church. The one who does so in tongues doesn't edify others. Paul spoke in tongues more than them all, yet in the church he would rather speak 4 words with the understanding that he may instruct others than 10,000 words in an unknown tongue.

I was in a meeting where maybe 5000 people spoke in tongues as the 'worship leader' directed. I refrained out of obedience to scripture. Except it seemed like a lot of them were saying either 'babababa' or 'bada bada bada.' They had a guest speaker from America, but at the end he had people gather those who wanted to be baptized with the Holy Spirit speak in tongues. His instructions to them was to think nothing and say 'whatever bubbles up out of their spirit.' If other people around them were saying 'bada bada bada', did anything supernatural have to occur for them to do the same thing? I found out that group of churches had a lot of people who sounded like that. The man at that meeting was a guest speaker. I don't know what they normally did in their churches in that regard.

I read Azusa Street experiences about being sanctified, devoted to God, and death to self among those who were baptized with the Holy Ghost. I can't rule out people being pressured, coached, or put in situations where they make a little noise and others saying 'you got it.' I don't believe the Holy Spirit needs the coaching or the social pressure. I didn't have anyone coaching me or any special 'set up' to make it happen for me.

Actually there's a big difference between praise and worship in tongues as a prayer language compared to the isolated incident of tongues and interpretation.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

'm not sure what your area of disagreement is supposed to be with the post I made. I agree that speaking in tongues involves the Spirit giving utterance, a point I made to you some time back in the thread. They spoke as the Spirit gave them utterance. The Spirit enabled them to speak, but they did the speaking.

But you are cutting off verses about the word of wisdom and the word of knowledge.

And I disagree with the translators here to say utterance of wisdom or utterance of knowledge. I'm assuming that's ESV. I realize they have to use some different language to make their translations different enough from others to have a copyright. But logos has a broader meaning than 'utterance.' I suspect here it's more of a message from God rather than one that necessarily has to be spoken out through the person at the moment. That sounds more like prophesying.

Be that as it may, it's saying word of wisdom and word of knowledge, not word of tongues.
And I don't see how 'as the Spirit gave them utterance' contradicts what I wrote. The Spirit gives what is to be said. At the same time, tongues is a gift that has to be properly stewarded. It's possible to use it improperly, like everyone praying in tongues at the same time in church where you can't ear anything but speaking in tongues and unbelieving visitors think you are all crazy, or taking turns speaking in tongues and no one interpreting, or someone giving a message in tongues, finding there is no interpreter and going on and on in tongues.

Not cutting off Verses. From verse 8 to 10 is a continuation. I just did not list ""all of the Gifts," only listed tongues.

 

[presidente]

In Peter's example in Chapter 10, it declares the circumcised knew the Gentiles were speaking in tongues. It doesn't say they could understand it. But they "knew" the Holy Spirit fell upon/indwelled them and they spoke in tongues. Every example ""in the Bible"" after that states basically the same thing. So if it is human language ever, it is very rare. But I've been serving God for over 50 years and never heard of it or been told of it. Just heard through the grapevine it has happened. So it is a very very extremely rare thing """if""" it actually happens.

But I am not going to say it does not nor cannot happen. Just that as a Pentecostal Minister, I've never seen it or been first hand told of it.

I have talked face-to-face with two people who spoke in tongues and it was understood by others. One brother I've corresponded with a video chatted with for years has heard speaking in tongues in English, not his native language, but he's heard it 'in tongues' by two speakers. I also spoke to someone who heard someone in a Chinese village speak in tongues in English. I've read posts on forums from one or two others who have spoken in tongues and others understood. And then I've heard testimonies in the Assemblies of God.

I haven't heard a tongue I understood 'with my understanding' myself yet.

 

[presidente]

Not cutting off Verses. From verse 8 to 10 is a continuation. I just did not list ""all of the Gifts," only listed tongues.

I Corinthians 12

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:



Paul doesn't say 'utterance of tongues' here.

 

[presidente]

Actually there's a big difference between praise and worship in tongues as a prayer language compared to the isolated incident of tongues and interpretation.

Yes, collective praying or singing in tongues in church in 'worship' is not taught in scripture and goes against what Paul teaches in I Corinthians 14. Tongues and interpretation, properly done, does not.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I have talked face-to-face with two people who spoke in tongues and it was understood by others. One brother I've corresponded with a video chatted with for years has heard speaking in tongues in English, not his native language, but he's heard it 'in tongues' by two speakers. I also spoke to someone who heard someone in a Chinese village speak in tongues in English. I've read posts on forums from one or two others who have spoken in tongues and others understood. And then I've heard testimonies in the Assemblies of God.

I haven't heard a tongue I understood 'with my understanding' myself yet.

So we are alike. We've heard about but never saw it ourselves. Like I said, I believe it's possible. I just have never seen it myself.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I Corinthians 12

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:



Paul doesn't say 'utterance of tongues' here.

8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

He does in verse 8 and it applies to all the Gifts listed.

 

[presidente]

8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

He does in verse 8 and it applies to all the Gifts listed.

So you think he's saying utterance of the working of miracles, utterance of gifts of healing, and utterance of distinguishing between spirits?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Yes, collective praying or singing in tongues in church in 'worship' is not taught in scripture and goes against what Paul teaches in I Corinthians 14. Tongues and interpretation, properly done, does not.

Paul had small starter up churches.
The church with 10,000 members has been solidified and the mass majority are believers.
I know what you're saying, but Paul never dealt with a church with that many people in it.
If he had, I wonder if he would have made mention to that?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

So you think he's saying utterance of the working of miracles, utterance of gifts of healing, and utterance of distinguishing between spirits?

I think the Holy Spirit works through utterance. Utterance means "to elevate." So the Spirit elevates all the Gifts.

 

[presidente]

I think the Holy Spirit works through utterance. Utterance means "to elevate." So the Spirit elevates all the Gifts.

In what language does 'utterance' mean to elevate. I've seen the same word translated 'speak' in Greek translated 'utterance.' It also means something spoken in English.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

In what language does 'utterance' mean to elevate. I've seen the same word translated 'speak' in Greek translated 'utterance.' It also means something spoken in English.

I bet you saw it as "elevates" speaking, but did not pay attention to the elevating part.

 

[presidente]

I bet you saw it as "elevates" speaking, but did not pay attention to the elevating part.

Utterance doesn't mean elevate in any language I know of, and I looked up the etymology and that's not where the word comes from.

 

[presidente]

Paul had small starter up churches.
The church with 10,000 members has been solidified and the mass majority are believers.
I know what you're saying, but Paul never dealt with a church with that many people in it.
If he had, I wonder if he would have made mention to that?

I don't see why more people would change the rules on speaking in tongues. Implementing I Corinthians 14 could be difficult with that many people. If a prophetic word comes to someone else while a prophet is speaking, the prophets is to hold his peace, for ye may all prophesy. And if every one of them had a teaching, with 10,000 people, that could be a long meeting. With 10,000 people that must have been difficult. But Paul implies he's appealing to universal church practices, and there may have been 10,000 Christians in Jerusalem at some point.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Utterance doesn't mean elevate in any language I know of, and I looked up the etymology and that's not where the word comes from.

From a Bible Thesaurus
In Acts 26:25. In the 3 translations it refers to elevated speech by men of God who were under the control of the Holy Spirit, at the time they were speaking.

It means to make it embolden, to elevate.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I don't see why more people would change the rules on speaking in tongues. Implementing I Corinthians 14 could be difficult with that many people. If a prophetic word comes to someone else while a prophet is speaking, the prophets is to hold his peace, for ye may all prophesy. And if every one of them had a teaching, with 10,000 people, that could be a long meeting. With 10,000 people that must have been difficult. But Paul implies he's appealing to universal church practices, and there may have been 10,000 Christians in Jerusalem at some point.

If a prophetic word would come, the congregation gets quiet and the one speaking is the only person heard. It's always happened that way with 2 people or 10,000.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

From a Bible Thesaurus
In Acts 26:25. In the 3 translations it refers to elevated speech by men of God who were under the control of the Holy Spirit, at the time they were speaking.

It means to make it embolden, to elevate.

It's funny this uses a verse that shows a king speaking with authority. But it's meant to show God speaks through us boldy during speaking in tongues. I even admit that's an odd way to explain it.

 

[Inquisitor]

I have already shown that there is NO SUCH THING as tongues (languages) of angels. Even while Paul was Paradise, he understood what was being said, but was forbidden to disclose it. And every time an angel spoke in Scripture it was either in Hebrew or Aramaic. And "tongues of men" simply means human languages.

What about when God spoke in thunder and only one or more understood?

John 12:28-30
Father, glorify your name. Then a voice came from heaven: “I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again.” The crowd that stood there and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, “An angel has spoken to him.” Jesus answered, “This voice has come for your sake, not mine.”

Ex 19:16–20
On the morning of the third day there were thunders and lightnings and a thick cloud on the mountain and a very loud trumpet blast, so that all the people in the camp trembled. Then Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet God, and they took their stand at the foot of the mountain. Now Mount Sinai was wrapped in smoke because the Lord had descended on it in fire. The smoke of it went up like the smoke of a kiln, and the whole mountain trembled greatly. And as the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder, Moses spoke, and God answered him in thunder.

1 Corinthians 14
Pursue love, yet earnestly desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. For the one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people, but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. But the one who prophesies speaks to people for edification, exhortation, and consolation. ...

 

[Cameron143]

What about when God spoke in thunder and only one or more understood?

John 12:28-30
Father, glorify your name. Then a voice came from heaven: “I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again.” The crowd that stood there and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, “An angel has spoken to him.” Jesus answered, “This voice has come for your sake, not mine.”

Ex 19:16–20
On the morning of the third day there were thunders and lightnings and a thick cloud on the mountain and a very loud trumpet blast, so that all the people in the camp trembled. Then Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet God, and they took their stand at the foot of the mountain. Now Mount Sinai was wrapped in smoke because the Lord had descended on it in fire. The smoke of it went up like the smoke of a kiln, and the whole mountain trembled greatly. And as the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder, Moses spoke, and God answered him in thunder.

1 Corinthians 14
Pursue love, yet earnestly desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. For the one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people, but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. But the one who prophesies speaks to people for edification, exhortation, and consolation. ...

That was an electrostatic utterance.

 

[Inquisitor]

Hello everyone. I am an elderly christian and would like to share a few verses. I have only read some of the sections of this thread ...the comments in the early sections of the thread..I decided to try to share something hoping it will help. Since I have not read the entire thread these verses may already have been shared. Please look at the Bible verses Mark 16: 6-20 ..especially look at Mark chapter 16 verses 16 and 17. I believe because of God's love for us all when we humbly look to Him for understanding, for answers to spiritual questions He will reveal the truth in His time if our heart is humble and repentant and our motive is genuine. The experience of speaking in tongues as mentioned in the Bible is a supernatural event ...the account of Jesus resurrection from the dead is an amazing supernatural event. Sometimes it is not easy for the natural human mind to truly accept the realm of the supernatural..so I think that only when we can humbly submit our entire self to God will we be able to believe and experience some of the things that God wants to show us . It is very important I think for us to seek the fruits of the spirit, to seek to draw closer to God day by day with a humble repentant heart and then He will be able to work in us and through us by the power of the Holy Spirit.

The scripture is clear as a bell on what our faith is based on.

1 Corinthians 2:4-5
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. I also was with you in weakness and fear, and in great trembling, and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of mankind, but on the power of God.