IS SIN A CHOICE?

[Tararose]

Do you think jesus could have sinned?

Well firstly He is God and so is not under the commands He had to issue to sinful man. He chose to put himself in the bodily form of a Hebrew under the law. He was tempted as a human, I am sure his body had natural urges and desires that affected him, but as we tend to speak and act from the overflow of our hearts Jesus had no reason to do things that meant less to Him than doing the will of His Father. He was under such pressure to avoid His Fathers will when it came to the cross, that He sweat drops of blood In his efforts to stay the course. In theory He as a human could have given in to the flesh just as Adam and Eve has the choice to as pure human beings not born of sin. If there was no battle there would have been no victory.

 

[Tararose]

If, as you quoted, Christ faced temptation and did not give in to it. He released us from the power of sin and made us no longer slaves to sin. Why then do you still believe it is impossible for us not to sin? just curious

Simply put we do not desire the will of God to the extent Christ did. He did not come as a man born in sin. He knows we did and He is compassionate to the fact we have to see out the rest of our days in this weak flesh. If we walk in the spirit we will not fullfil The lusts of the flesh. The bible implicitly says that. However it takes a continuous level of commitment and effort that none of us have yet managed. God knows none of us will manage it but urges us to resist with His strength. The more we resist and do the will of God, the more natural it becomes to us. But it’s a journey, we have been habitual sinners and now need to “practise” walking in the new life we have been given. God is realistic to know we will not perfect it in this life, for if we say we are without sin we lie and the truth is not in us. It is theoretically possible for a born again believer not to sin, but it hasn’t been done until Christ came and it hasn’t been done since for there is only one who lives on earth without sin and that is Christ. We have not yet resisted to the point of blood ... as scripture puts it. It is possible... but no one has done this (Consistently and without exception )except Christ.

 

[infinitekhanol]

Well firstly He is God and so is not under the commands He had to issue to sinful man. He chose to put himself in the bodily form of a Hebrew under the law. He was tempted as a human, I am sure his body had natural urges and desires that affected him, but as we tend to speak and act from the overflow of our hearts Jesus had no reason to do things that meant less to Him than doing the will of His Father. He was under such pressure to avoid His Fathers will when it came to the cross, that He sweat drops of blood In his efforts to stay the course. In theory He as a human could have given in to the flesh just as Adam and Eve has the choice to as pure human beings not born of sin. If there was no battle there would have been no victory.

In so doing, he shows us by example that it is possible for us human beings not to sin as well

 

[Tararose]

In so doing, he shows us by example that it is possible for us human beings not to sin as well

Which takes us full circle, it is a choice for believers to sin.

I am thankful that although the bible states we still all sin Sometimes, (but that true believers won’t make a practise of it) forgiveness is still available thanks to Christ, even for believers who at times fall short of the available help of God to overcome every temptation. What A great God we serve, He knows the spirit is indeed willing but the flesh is weak, and He is full of mercy and grace towards us.

 

[AlmondJoy]

Hello again AlmondJoy, while I believe that I understand what you are saying, that the unregenerate man/woman is a slave to sin because that is what they desire most in this world, so they will always/freely choose to sin when they could have chosen to act according to righteousness instead (if righteousness was their principle desire instead of sin, that is).

And just to be clear, you do not mean that there is a third party (like God) who is overwhelming their free will choices and 'causing' them to sin/leaving them with no choice but to sin (causing them to do what they would have never chosen to do on their own), do you

Thanks

~Deut

Thanks for saying it better than I did. Your right

I guess what I was trying to say was to the unsaved sinner, sin is as natural as breathing. Literally they were born that way and yes they are a slave to sin.

 

[pottersclay]

In so doing, he shows us by example that it is possible for us human beings not to sin as well

If you are speaking of the christ you are sadly mistaken. His sinless life was not the example that we could do it too.
Without him we can do nothing. Your best day is a filthy rag to God. Be perfect as the father in heaven is perfect.
Without spot without blemish. That covers word, thought, deed, are you saying it is possible to achieve this this side of heaven?

 

[AlmondJoy]

Not so. God has given every human being a conscience, and the conscience in fact has the Law (the Ten Commandments) embedded in it. See Romans 2.

I should have worded that differently. Your post reminded me of a sermon I read from Ivor Powell called "the conscience, Gods greatest preacher"

The unsaved are a slave to sin they don't have the Spirit of God leading them to all truth

Maybe I'm wrong, its been many years but I don't remember as an unsaved man being tempted by the devil or the flesh to sin

After salvation the war was on.

 

[Ogom]

The more we resist and do the will of God, the more natural it becomes to us. But it’s a journey, we have been habitual sinners and now need to “practise” walking in the new life we have been given.

yes, a Journey. a Path. the Way.


Acts 24:14, 15, 22, 24, 25

New International Version


14 However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,

15 and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16 So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.

22 Then Felix, who was well acquainted with the Way, adjourned the proceedings. “When Lysias the commander comes,” he said, “I will decide your case.”

24 Several days later Felix came with his wife Drusilla, who was Jewish. He sent for Paul and listened to him as he spoke about faith in Christ Jesus. 25 As Paul talked about righteousness, self-control and the judgment to come,



Read full chapter
Acts 24:14 in all English translations

 

[Tararose]

If you are speaking of the christ you are sadly mistaken. His sinless life was not the example that we could do it too.
Without him we can do nothing. Your best day is a filthy rag to God. Be perfect as the father in heaven is perfect.
Without spot without blemish. That covers word, thought, deed, are you saying it is possible to achieve this this side of heaven?

What you have said is true, but we are not “without Him” as believers. And IF we walk after the spirit we will not give in to the desires of the flesh. It is God who works us to will and to do His good pleasure and so the only hinderance to
That is our choosing to quench the spirit and walk in the flesh sometimes.

 

[infinitekhanol]

Simply put we do not desire the will of God to the extent Christ did. He did not come as a man born in sin. He knows we did and He is compassionate to the fact we have to see out the rest of our days in this weak flesh. If we walk in the spirit we will not fullfil The lusts of the flesh. The bible implicitly says that. However it takes a continuous level of commitment and effort that none of us have yet managed. God knows none of us will manage it but urges us to resist with His strength. The more we resist and do the will of God, the more natural it becomes to us. But it’s a journey, we have been habitual sinners and now need to “practise” walking in the new life we have been given. God is realistic to know we will not perfect it in this life, for if we say we are without sin we lie and the truth is not in us. It is theoretically possible for a born again believer not to sin, but it hasn’t been done until Christ came and it hasn’t been done since for there is only one who lives on earth without sin and that is Christ. We have not yet resisted to the point of blood ... as scripture puts it. It is possible... but no one has done this (Consistently and without exception )except Christ.

The first thing is to know what the goal is as concerning sin. I trust we know it but do not believe, it is possible to achieve, thereby, defeating it already in our mind. Jesus told the woman caught in adultery- go and sin no more. The bible tells us the same thing in various ways starting from Genesis to Revelation. Our Lord God has given us grace through our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus tells us his strength is made perfect in our weakness. He has even exemplified the way for us to show us that it is possible. The bible tells us as you quoted, walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. Sin is not inherent in us and therefore we can get rid of it by holding on to the marvelous grace of God. If we continue to believe that it is impossible, this believe continues to play itself out in us. He cannot tell us to do what he knows it is impossible for us to do.

What you mentioned reminds me of what some people say when faced with challenges of life. We hear some say, “I am not Jesus, or that Jesus is God, am I God?”, forgetting that as Christians, we are supposed to imbibe the mind of Christ. Jesus went through his suffering and temptations without compromising his identity, likewise, we must go through our temptations without compromise as his followers. If we remain true to our faith in the face of the tempiation, the Holy Spirit will walk us through and out of that situation to a triumphant end.

 

[Tararose]

The first thing is to know what the goal is as concerning sin. I trust we know it but do not believe, it is possible to achieve, thereby, defeating it already in our mind. Jesus told the woman caught in adultery- go and sin no more. The bible tells us the same thing in various ways starting from Genesis to Revelation. Our Lord God has given us grace through our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus tells us his strength is made perfect in our weakness. He has even exemplified the way for us to show us that it is possible. The bible tells us as you quoted, walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. Sin is not inherent in us and therefore we can get rid of it by holding on to the marvelous grace of God. If we continue to believe that it is impossible, this believe continues to play itself out in us. He cannot tell us to do what he knows it is impossible for us to do.

What you mentioned reminds me of what some people say when faced with challenges of life. We hear some say, “I am not Jesus, or that Jesus is God, am I God?”, forgetting that as Christians, we are supposed to imbibe the mind of Christ. Jesus went through his suffering and temptations without compromising his identity, likewise, we must go through our temptations without compromise as his followers. If we remain true to our faith in the face of the tempiation, the Holy Spirit will walk us through and out of that situation to a triumphant end.

My point is not that we have an excuse to sin, but it is clear we will sin. if we say we have no sin the truth is not in us. If anyone reaches a point of believing they have no sin, the truth is not in them.

It is not about impossible or possible, rather we must practice Righteousness and when (as scripture states we will) we fall short, confess and get back on track quick smart.

God needing to be working in us to Will and to do His good pleasure is a sign we need work! The challenge remains to have the mind of Christ and as we submit to God this is formed in us. Renewing our minds is a process Also.

These are things Christ did not require. He was the way, He is the way. We are not. We are on it and learning as we go, being conformed , sanctified and changing from one degree of glory to another.

Being perfect is possible as soon as we are saved - because He is our perfection. Being righteous as soon as we are saved is possible - because He is our righteousness. Learning to live out His example in this fallen flesh (which is still in the fall) however, Is a life long process and will never end on this earth. For now we know only in part and we must not lean on our own understanding. His thoughts are not our thoughts and His ways are higher than ours.... And so even if our own consciences do not condemn us ...(ie. we think we are sinless)... The word still says we deceive ourselves if we say we have no sin, and the truth is not in us.

Jesus could say He had no sin. He was and still is the truth. This is why I say we are not Christ. To elevate ourselves to a position of professing to be a sinlessly perfect human is Just not biblical.

This is not an excuse to sin. We should strive to resist and turn to God For strength in our hour of weakness full-stop. It is possible not to sin and that is truth. But we stilL do, regardless of what we know or believe is possible.

 

[infinitekhanol]

Simply put we do not desire the will of God to the extent Christ did. He did not come as a man born in sin. He knows we did and He is compassionate to the fact we have to see out the rest of our days in this weak flesh. If we walk in the spirit we will not fullfil The lusts of the flesh. The bible implicitly says that. However it takes a continuous level of commitment and effort that none of us have yet managed. God knows none of us will manage it but urges us to resist with His strength. The more we resist and do the will of God, the more natural it becomes to us. But it’s a journey, we have been habitual sinners and now need to “practise” walking in the new life we have been given. God is realistic to know we will not perfect it in this life, for if we say we are without sin we lie and the truth is not in us. It is theoretically possible for a born again believer not to sin, but it hasn’t been done until Christ came and it hasn’t been done since for there is only one who lives on earth without sin and that is Christ. We have not yet resisted to the point of blood ... as scripture puts it. It is possible... but no one has done this (Consistently and without exception )except Christ.

Sorry, I wanted to add to my post that I like where you said above The more we resist and do the will of God, the more natural it becomes to us. For this is the actual truth.


I kind of omitted it.

 

[infinitekhanol]

My point is not that we have an excuse to sin, but it is clear we will sin. if we say we have no sin the truth is not in us. If anyone reaches a point of believing they have no sin, the truth is not in them.

It is not about impossible or possible, rather we must practice Righteousness and when (as scripture states we will) we fall short, confess and get back on track quick smart.

God needing to be working in us to Will and to do His good pleasure is a sign we need work! The challenge remains to have the mind of Christ and as we submit to God this is formed in us. Renewing our minds is a process Also.

These are things Christ did not require. He was the way, He is the way. We are not. We are on it and learning as we go, being conformed , sanctified and changing from one degree of glory to another.

Being perfect is possible as soon as we are saved - because He is our perfection. Being righteous as soon as we are saved is possible - because He is our righteousness. Learning to live out His example in this fallen flesh (which is still in the fall) however, Is a life long process and will never end on this earth. For now we know only in part and we must not lean on our own understanding. His thoughts are not our thoughts and His ways are higher than ours.... And so even if our own consciences do not condemn us ...(ie. we think we are sinless)... The word still says we deceive ourselves if we say we have no sin, and the truth is not in us.

Jesus could say He had no sin. He was and still is the truth. This is why I say we are not Christ. To elevate ourselves to a position of professing to be a sinlessly perfect human is Just not biblical.

This is not an excuse to sin. We should strive to resist and turn to God For strength in our hour of weakness full-stop. It is possible not to sin and that is truth. But we stilL do, regardless of what we know or believe is possible.

If God wanted us to believe that because he is God, that is why he was able to do what he did for us on earth, he would not have come in human form. He came to give us all the understanding we need as human beings to achieve perfection here on earth and have eternal life. He exemplified the Way for us as a man with human needs as we have and died for us to remove the burden of past sin so that we do not become slaves to sin any longer. He resurrected us with him imputing his righteousness unto us, giving us a new life, so we are no longer in the fallen flesh as you posited in your post. As we have followed Adam and Eve to sin, we can in the same vain follow Christ Jesus to godliness unto perfection here on earth. His grace and truth teaches us to go and sin no more but we are still lacing our mind with unbelief in this regard.

 

[infinitekhanol]

If you are speaking of the christ you are sadly mistaken. His sinless life was not the example that we could do it too.
Without him we can do nothing. Your best day is a filthy rag to God. Be perfect as the father in heaven is perfect.
Without spot without blemish. That covers word, thought, deed, are you saying it is possible to achieve this this side of heaven?

Yes by holding on to the faith of Jesus. Without him we are nothing and we can do nothing .

 

[Tararose]

If God wanted us to believe that because he is God, that is why he was able to do what he did for us on earth, he would not have come in human form. He came to give us all the understanding we need as human beings to achieve perfection here on earth and have eternal life. He exemplified the Way for us as a man with human needs as we have and died for us to remove the burden of past sin so that we do not become slaves to sin any longer. He resurrected us with him imputing his righteousness unto us, giving us a new life, so we are no longer in the fallen flesh as you posited in your post. As we have followed Adam and Eve to sin, we can in the same vain follow Christ Jesus to godliness unto perfection here on earth. His grace and truth teaches us to go and sin no more but we are still lacing our mind with unbelief in this regard.

I will resist the obviously loaded and sarcastic question of “so then you never sin?” and simply break off here with an assumption we must be misunderstanding one another. Catch you on another thread perhaps

 

[infinitekhanol]

I will resist the obviously loaded and sarcastic question of “so then you never sin?” and simply break off here with an assumption we must be misunderstanding one another. Catch you on another thread perhaps

What I am stating here are the facts as I see them and are not personal in terms of referring to myself. So it is good you did not ask.

I agree with you. Let's end it here. it is good chatting with you.

 

[p_rehbein]

Sometimes sin is a choice, and sometimes it is not (when speaking of Believers).

There is a sin of "commission" and a sin of "omission."

Sometimes a believer can do something as an instinctive reaction that he would not do normally. Or he may do something without realizing what he is doing is a sin. That is the sin of omission.

The sin of commission is the sin that a person, believer or not, chooses to do.

Either way, for a believer, when he realizes what he has done, he should ask forgiveness from God for that sin. Some people say that believers do not have to ask forgiveness for each of their wee, little, or huge sins AFTER they have been saved. But: Jesus Himself said we ARE TO........

Matthew, Chapter 6:

9) After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11) Give us this day our daily bread.
12) And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13) And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14) For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15) But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

 

[Tararose]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGMdUZPbbNnZVy6l2TPkDKw

A friend sent me this church service live YouTube link, I clicked on and it’s just starting now and apparently the topic is “can a Christian be perfect”

Just thought it might be interesting if anyone is free and fancies watching it. It’s old fashioned church which may or may not be to your taste - but the sermons are usually good

 

[AlmondJoy]

Sooo why would you dodge such a question?

The question had nothing to do with my post. It was a bait question.

Do you sin?

If or when you sin are you forced to or do it or do you chose to?

 

[Scribe]

Sin is not a choice in fact it's what we do best. There is no good thing in us people.
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. All.
You would think after 6000 yrs man would of come up with some sort of methods....exercise...pill.....nope.
In fact you read that it get progressively worse in the last days......

I think we should also add the following to the definition of sin
Sin is defined as the thought of foolishness (Proverbs 24:9)

All the temptations we face stop or continue at the door of our thought.

I am starting to think I might sin every day.