Is masturbation really a sin?

[presidente]

There's a medical procedure that doesnt require it.

Not sure what you are talking about but that sounds horrifying.

 

[presidente]

Non sequitur. Where is the logical connection to what we were talking about.

it is common sense there are medical reason why one would have to provide a sample in that manner. It seems strange one would even have to explain again the context of medical reasons such has heathy seed to impregnate a women or one's wife. How is that sin? where as addiction to porn and the action of that is clearly not the same would you not agree?

If you have to ask why having sexual intercourse with the nurse to get one sample you have displayed clear perversion in your thinking. I have never heard of such twisted reasoning to defend a sexual perversion before it also most laughable if it were not so stupid.

I don't need to back up what is clearly an empty thought and anecdotical response . You need to back up your position with scripture.

The law of Moses says not to uncover your sister's nakedness. The Bible isn't perverted for suggesting such an idea. And I didn't have any particular nurse in mind.

The act of having sex with the nurse is a sinful act. if some bad guys say they will shoot you if you don't have sex with the nurse, it's still a sin to do so. If that were the only way available to collect a sample for the doctor, it's a sin. But you allow for masturbation to collect a sperm sample, so you aren't treating sex with a woman like masturbation. One, you have as a sin in all cases. I'm assuming sex with the nurse is always wrong in your mind (unless she's the wife of the man in question.)

You can insult me, but that doesn't strengthen your argument.

 

[Howdy]

Excuse the crude nature of this post, I just have really been struggling with this lately. Is it a sin? Where is the line drawn?

Where is your mind in these actions?

 

[CS1]

The law of Moses says not to uncover your sister's nakedness. The Bible isn't perverted for suggesting such an idea. And I didn't have any particular nurse in mind.

The act of having sex with the nurse is a sinful act. if some bad guys say they will shoot you if you don't have sex with the nurse, it's still a sin to do so. If that were the only way available to collect a sample for the doctor, it's a sin. But you allow for masturbation to collect a sperm sample, so you aren't treating sex with a woman like masturbation. One, you have as a sin in all cases. I'm assuming sex with the nurse is always wrong in your mind (unless she's the wife of the man in question.)

You can insult me, but that doesn't strengthen your argument.

Are you ok?

Because I am finding it hard to take you seriously. You are talking around the comments I have made in response to your postings.


The act of having sex with a nurse in the context you laid out in your post if married that would be adultery, if not that would be fornication. In context to a medical specimen to determine one's sperm Count has never required one to have sex with the nurse to find out if one has a good count or not. FYI it has never been required to have sex with a nurse to achieve lab work. Your point is ridicules.


Then you again result to Hypothetical's over and over again. And by your own example being forced to have sex is known as rape which is a violation of the law of the land which we are to obey unless it goes against Gods laws.


I am not treating sex in anyway. I am saying that most men who are engaged in this self-gratification are addicted to sexual perversion. Furthermore sexual idolatry has brought many men of God down which is plainly seen in the word of God The list is very long and it is today with men who have been over taken by sexual addition. As I said repeatedly Masturbation is not the cause but the effects of something deeper,


The list of godly of godly men who were overtaken by sexual sin:

• Samson
• Eli's two sons
• David
• Salomon
• many of the Kings after Salomon engaged in idol worship which required sexual sin as it was the custom with most false gods of fertility

 

[presidente]

• The act of having sex with a nurse in the context you laid out in your post if married that would be adultery, if not that would be fornication. In context to a medical specimen to determine one's sperm Count has never required one to have sex with the nurse to find out if one has a good count or not. FYI it has never been required to have sex with a nurse to achieve lab work. Your point is ridicules.

• 
  

Antoni van Leeuwenhoek important in the history of the microscope, is said to have retrieved a sperm sample after intercourse with his wife. I wonder if he had masturbated and written that he had done so if this would have been seen as incredibly scandalous. So I had in mind the early history, perhaps earliest history, of retrieving such samples in mind.

My point is, if masturbation is a sin, then it's wrong to do it, like a nurse doing so would be in such a situation, if one were not married to the nurse.

And by your own example being forced to have sex is known as rape which is a violation of the law of the land which we are to obey unless it goes against Gods laws.

Not sure how that topic came up.

I am not treating sex in anyway. I am saying that most men who are engaged in this self-gratification are addicted to sexual perversion.

I haven't surveyed to find out, and I don't know how one would measure that. I do know that porn use is widespread, but that has not always been the case.

 

[Edify]

I am also not saying that 'masturbation is somehow good.'

Matthew 5:37
New American Standard Bible
But make sure your statement is, ‘Yes, yes’ or ‘No, no’; anything beyond these is of evil origin.
So far you have been somewhere in the middle.

Ezekiel 16:17
New American Standard Bible
You also took your beautiful jewels made of My gold and of My silver, which I had given you, and made for yourself male images so that you might commit prostitution with them.
God says His bride has made a male dildo & committed adultery with it.
Why would God say that as a major sin and use masterbation as an example of such sin?

 

[presidente]

Matthew 5:37
New American Standard Bible
But make sure your statement is, ‘Yes, yes’ or ‘No, no’; anything beyond these is of evil origin.
So far you have been somewhere in the middle.

This is a verse about saying yes or no, not about swearing oaths.

What I said is I am not going to encourage people to masturbate, but I don't find any scripture that condemns it, so I'm not going to condemn it as sin either. I could say the same about drinking Red Bull also.

I do have a problem with fuzzy youth of scripture.

Ezekiel 16:17

New American Standard Bible
You also took your beautiful jewels made of My gold and of My silver, which I had given you, and made for yourself male images so that you might commit prostitution with them.
God says His bride has made a male dildo & committed adultery with it.
Why would God say that as a major sin and use masterbation as an example of such sin?

You would have to prove this to me. It doesn't say that in the translation you used. The cognate word in Indonesian, and I've read in Arabic looks like it could mean that. Still if that is the metaphor.... worshipping idols is parallel with adultery in the book.

 

[Edify]

You would have to prove this to me.

Gee, I thought I just did!

 

[Edify]

From gotquestions.org:
In the New Testament, the word most often translated “sexual immorality” is porneia. This word is also translated as “whoredom,” “fornication,” and “idolatry.” It means “a surrendering of sexual purity,” and it is primarily used of premarital sexual relations. From this Greek word we get the English word pornography, stemming from the concept of “selling off.” Sexual immorality is the “selling off” of sexual purity and involves any type of sexual expression outside the boundaries of a biblically defined marriage relationship (Matthew 19:4–5).

 

[Edify]

1 Thessalonians 4:3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; 4that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God;

Most Bible commentators define sexual immorality as any sexual act or lust outside of the marriage relationship. They also say it involves lack of self-control.

 

[CS1]

Antoni van Leeuwenhoek important in the history of the microscope, is said to have retrieved a sperm sample after intercourse with his wife. I wonder if he had masturbated and written that he had done so if this would have been seen as incredibly scandalous. So I had in mind the early history, perhaps earliest history, of retrieving such samples in mind.

My point is, if masturbation is a sin, then it's wrong to do it, like a nurse doing so would be in such a situation, if one were not married to the nurse.



Not sure how that topic came up.

I haven't surveyed to find out, and I don't know how one would measure that. I do know that porn use is widespread, but that has not always been the case.

Let me say this. Anyone who find "Antoni van Leeuwenhoek important in the history " because he abused his wife and documented that abused and called it Science, is a great example of what Germany called science when they murdered and abused 6 million Jews.

And if you have to "wonder if he had masturbated and written that he had done so" then you say "if Masturbation sin" is greatly revealing of you mind-set. Who would want to know such perverted things? And used it to formulate and argument for Masturbation.

 

[Snackersmom]

5not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God;

I had to do a double-take because I read v. 5 as "Snot in lustful passion"

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Let me say this. Anyone who find "Antoni van Leeuwenhoek important in the history " because he abused his wife and documented that abused and called it Science, is a great example of what Germany called science when they murdered and abused 6 million Jews.

And if you have to "wonder if he had masturbated and written that he had done so" then you say "if Masturbation sin" is greatly revealing of you mind-set. Who would want to know such perverted things? And used it to formulate and argument for Masturbation.

2 Timothy 3:1-5

1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

 

[presidente]

Let me say this. Anyone who find "Antoni van Leeuwenhoek important in the history " because he abused his wife and documented that abused and called it Science, is a great example of what Germany called science when they murdered and abused 6 million Jews.

They talk about the guy in science class... you know...from the 1600's, and he's Dutch. They don't talk about him abusing his wife. I asked Google, and its AI didn't know about him abusing his wife either. The Nazis invaded the Netherlands, too, you know... but much later. I think you are historically confused. He lived way before Hitler.

And if you have to "wonder if he had masturbated and written that he had done so" then you say "if Masturbation sin" is greatly revealing of you mind-set. Who would want to know such perverted things? And used it to formulate and argument for Masturbation.

[/quote]

Those are some selected quotes taken out of context of the flow of what I was saying. But if you can't really defend what you are saying, I see why you are resorting to such tactics.

 

[presidente]

Gee, I thought I just did!

How so?

I know zakar can mean male part in Indonesian, and read that it __can__ mean that in Arabic, though I think it means 'male' normally. I don't know that it means that in Hebrew. Did you read that idea in a commentary?

The donkey/horse verse is in Ezekiel also. Maybe that's why some of the Jews required men be 40 to read it?

 

[Edward429451]

Calling other people's posts 'diatribes' is not a formula for respectful conversation.

I am also not saying that 'masturbation is somehow good.' I am saying if you are going to accuse people of sin, you need to have some actual scripture to back it up. The case against masturbation is as loose as the case against birth control, and maybe even weaker.

Now, within your world view, should you consider that you wrote that about me because of a 'lying spirit' or a 'spirit of inaccuracy.' Would have to consider that you need to have a demon cast out of you?

Do you think all sins are caused by specific demons named after that sin?



I've never heard that one. He had a good teaching on fasting. Someone on a forum asked who readers would prefer as a teacher, Kenneth Hagin or Derek Prince. I thought Derek Prince, except I was wary of his emphasis on demons and the way he viewed it. Someone said Hagin liked Derek Prince, but was wary of his teachings on demons.

I'm not going to base doctrine on Prince's experience. I know there are a lot of Charismatics and people in the signs and wonders movement who make light use of scripture and a lot of their rapidly evolving doctrine is based on what preacher's say and other people's experiences.

I have a question for you? When you accuse someone of having a spirit or a demon do you feel like you have to have some sort of revelation from the Holy Spirit to say that, or is it just derived from a world view you've picked up from others?

Is it like this for you? Do you think like this?

"You watch porn, so I cast out that lust demon."
"You have pain, so I cast out that pain demon."
"You have arthritis so I cast out that arthritis demon."
"You lost a foot, so I cast out that spirit of one-footed-ness."
"Your food is not salty so I cast out the spirit of unsaltiness out of your food."



I'm not going to accuse you of needing to have a 'spirit of slander' or a 'spirit of accusation' in you. I believe you need to take responsibility for your own actions, and if I don't actually perceive a spirit myself, I have no right to make the accusation. (And a childish assumption that if someone has a problem they must have a demon named after that problem doesn't count.)

I would remind you of James 4:11
Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge

I would also point you to the numerous scriptures that address sin as people's responsibility. You can go through Paul's letters and see that Paul exhorts people to steal no more and to work with their own hands... with no recommendation to cast out demons of theft or laziness out of them. He doesn't say to cast the demon of fornication out of people in I Corinthians 5 and 6. He doesn't tell them to cast out the spirit of division in I Corinthians 2 by yelling at it, or tell them to cast out a spirit of disorderly use of gifts in chapter 14, or a demon of denying the resurrection of the dead in chapter 15. Jesus said to his audience, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. He didn't say He needed to cast out their spirit of unrepentance, and we never see Him rebuking the spirit of unbelief in the Bible.

Btw, I also didn't say I didn't want you talking about demonology. Be careful not to misrepresent others? But again, I take that as _____your____ choice, and ____your_____ responsibility. If a demon is involved, I haven't perceived that, so I choose not to misrepresent you. Rather, I think it is good if you rethink this issue, actually study what the Bible teaches on it instead of repeating stuff from preachers or books you've read, and pray about it.



I just choose not to comment on whether I ever masturbated. When I see people posting stuff that implies that someone who masturbates ___has to be looking at porn__ or has to be thinking lustful thoughts, I'm thinking there is a really big chance that they are reading their own personal experience into the situation.

If I don't have scripture to back it up, I'm not willing to heap condemnation upon teens. I'm willing to teach on and promote waiting until marriage, not looking with lust, etc. That can be taught out of the Bible without getting 'too creative.' Then there is medical stuff like collecting samples for fertility (never had an issue with that personally, praise God) or masturbation incorporated into a marital sexual experience. One of the posters here allowed for that... but we wouldn't allow sex with a non-spouse for the same reasons.



You aren't making much sense here? Are you wanting to say, 'Thus saith the Lord' a prophecy that God has now revealed that masturbation is evil, but that the Bible does not teach that it is evil? Are you implying that the Bible doesn't teach that there is a rapture? There is I Thessalonians 4. It happens at the parousia according to that passage. Are you trying to imply that the Bible doesn't address homosexual activity? Look at Leviticus 18, 19, Romans 1, I Timothy 1, and I Corinthians 6.

'Rapture' is not in the Vulgate, but a related Latin word is. But what is your point? How does this relate to the topic. We aren't talking about just a word showing up in a translation, but a scripture addressing the topic.

Men dressing as women and women as men is addressed. So is homosexual activity.


The passage in II Corinthians is about the letter v. the Spirit, not 'the Spirit of the word.' The 'spirit of the law' is an idea from Augustine, maybe Ambrose and California law, not what Paul was talking about.


IMO, a rather poor interpretation of the passage. Did you read the whole chapter and try to get the gist of what Paul is saying?

I didn't condemn anybody or accuse anyone. If what I said hits too close to home for you then that would be a matter of your own conscience, mr. I don't admit or comment of yourself, lol. Ok, now I don't think that you do it yourself! Lol!

 

[Edify]

How so?

I know zakar can mean male part in Indonesian, and read that it __can__ mean that in Arabic, though I think it means 'male' normally. I don't know that it means that in Hebrew. Did you read that idea in a commentary?

The donkey/horse verse is in Ezekiel also. Maybe that's why some of the Jews required men be 40 to read it?

We are done. I cannot help you.

 

[Edward429451]

Is it like this for you? Do you think like this?

"You watch porn, so I cast out that lust demon."
"You have pain, so I cast out that pain demon."
"You have arthritis so I cast out that arthritis demon."
"You lost a foot, so I cast out that spirit of one-footed-ness."
"Your food is not salty so I cast out the spirit of unsaltiness out of your food."

Spirit of Lust.
spirit of Infirmity.
Spirit of Arthritis.
You're perhaps insane.
See? You want to argue so go on down the street with that.

Colossians 3:4-10
5 So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world.
6 Because of these sins, the anger of God is coming.
7 You used to do these things when your life was still part of this world.
8 But now is the time to get rid of anger, rage, malicious behavior, slander, and dirty language.
9 Don’t lie to each other, for you have stripped off your old sinful nature and all its wicked deeds.
10 Put on your new nature, and be renewed as you learn to know your Creator and become like him..../NLT

I am also not saying that 'masturbation is somehow good.' I am saying if you are going to accuse people of sin, you need to have some actual scripture to back it up. The case against masturbation is as loose as the case against birth control, and maybe even weaker.

You contradict yourself there. First you say masturbation is not good, then you say the case that masturbation is bad is loose, thereby becoming an advocate for masturbation. As soon as you say the first word against masturbation being wrong, you are coming into agreement with a spirit of masturbation. Do you not believe the word of God is the authority on the matter? God's word puts down masturbation in one verse, as I posted above. If you deny that truth then I think think they call that being in rebellion against God?

 

[Edward429451]

I do have a problem with fuzzy youth of scripture.

That explains a lot about you. You're at that age where, you know everything, and yet, your brains isn't even fully developed until around age 25. So Maybe you might consider the fact that you might be wrong!

I bet when you're 50 you wont feel the same way.

 

[CS1]

2 Timothy 3:1-5

1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

amen