Is masturbation really a sin?

[presidente]

Have you ever had a mid-life crisis?

I don't thinks so. I've occasionally had a crisis here or there. Eternity is long, so I don't think there is a midlife for the saints.

I cannot understand how a person such as yourself not understand that Satan has so many strongholds in the earth today with perversion, porn, more sex on tv, more sex in music, more teens having sex, many more singles shacking up, far less marriage, and yet, in spite of all this perversion,

There are lots of strongholds.... Why do you think I cannot see that.

wonder if masterbation is really a sin. If singles are committing adultery doing it then so are the married that do it.

Where does the Bible say singles or married people are committing adultery by masturbating? Are you assuming that any man who masturbates has to covet a woman to do so? What if he's thinking about his wife, collecting a fertility sample for the doctor, without using porn? One poster/preacher here seemed to think that was okay. What do you think? But I think we should all agree a nurse using intercourse on a patient to collect a sample would be sexual immorality.

With all the temptation in the world, it would be ludicrous to think a married man in his flesh could masterbate without imagining something perverted.

I don't get why that would have to be the case. Are you speaking from your own experiences? If so, why would other men have to be like that? If a man is looking at a woman to lust after her while masturbating, the looking to lust is sinful.

Again, masturbation isn't something I'd encourage. But I don't see scripture that condemns it. Therefore, I don't heap condemnation on people over it.

Again, what I object to is people decreeing stuff is sin without scripture to back it up.

I'm 62 & will not go to a public pool because I don't trust myself with so many girls around.

I hope it is a matter of the eyes only.... but that makes sense. If you can go when no one is around that's best.

 

[Suze]

I get this from some people when alcohol comes up. I've tasted beer and wine a few times in my life. But I'm not a drinker, but you point out that the Bible doesn't say it's a sin to drink, and some religious people will accuse you of being a social drinker, a drunk, loving sin, or whatever. If you don't have a solid argument, you can just call the other person a wanker I suppose.



I never had sex with a girlfriend. My wife and I waited until we got married. We were both Christians. I've got an 'outlet' through marriage a lot of singles don't, and a lot of them are younger than I am. If some of them masturbate from time to time, do you have any __scriptures___ that accuse them of sin for doing so. There are chapters that list sexual sins. Where is this mentioned?



Do you care what God thinks? Where has God revealed that this is a sin?




In the Bible, there are certain people that are demonized. Typically, they are raving. It may throw them to the ground, speak through them. Then there is the issue of the world being under the power of the evil one. But not everyone is laying on the ground with demons talking through them or breaking chains with superhuman strength. The verses you quoted didn't say that anyone who sins is demonized. Is that what you believe?



Do you love assuming and accusing others? What do you do on the alcohol threads? You could see wearing jeans or red dresses as part of sexual immorality. But does the Bible teach that? I've heard both mentioned in preaching.



I'm pointing out arguments that seem dumb to me and making parallel arguments. Have you been doing this yourself?

Thank you for that comprehensive response , I often don't have the patience or energy to give such excellent replies . For me , I'm sure that there was a very specific word in the ancient Hebrew and in the Greek , for the very specific act of masturbation . God is not afraid to say exactly what He means , He is not the author of confusion and , if we read the Old Testament , He is very specific and conscientious to make sure that we know what He regards as sinful . He leaves us in do doubt because He is fair and just and loves us . He does not mention masturbation , as far as I can tell , at all , never mind to tell us that it's sinful . That's all I need to b confident in this matter . God's Word is The Word and the only One I am interested in .

 

[Meatbag]

Hello out there
It was covered back in post #3
masturbation will reinforce selfish behaviour & thinking in general
Take these things seriously

 

[Suze]

Hello out there
It was covered back in post #3
masturbation will reinforce selfish behaviour & thinking in general
Take these things seriously

I do take things seriously , however , I take sin seriously . There r a million selfish things we all do every day , selfish yes , sinful no . There is a difference between selfishness and sinfulness , if there wasn't we would all b doomed . Except of course , for the fact that Christ has covered our sins with his sinless blood . Selfish and sinful r not the same thing . We must b specific with sin because.......God is , very specific , it's not our place to add or subtract from the Bible . God bless you

 

[Meatbag]

+bursts out laughing+
Hi again.
I will be very specific in future when making the drive-by post
And you speaking truth there, God bless you

 

[DavidLamb]

I do take things seriously , however , I take sin seriously . There r a million selfish things we all do every day , selfish yes , sinful no . There is a difference between selfishness and sinfulness , if there wasn't we would all b doomed . Except of course , for the fact that Christ has covered our sins with his sinless blood . Selfish and sinful r not the same thing . We must b specific with sin because.......God is , very specific , it's not our place to add or subtract from the Bible . God bless you

I wonder how you define selfishness. I say that because you say that selfishness is not necessarily sinful. There are plenty of bible verses against sinfulness, For example:

“Let no one seek his own, but each one the other’s well-being.” (1Co 10:24 NKJV)

 

[Edward429451]

I find the worldview that if there is a sin or a problem, there MUST be a specific demon behind that problem, named specifically after that problem, to be a bit strange. That's the thinking of ____some___ Charismatics, not all, and less common with Pentecostals. I cannot think of any cases in scripture where a demon was cast out of someone to keep that person from sinning. A demon may have enabled a fortune-teller to fortune tell in Acts, and on occasion Jesus cast out a demon associated with an ailment, but Matthew 4 lists evil spirits as a separate category from various ailments that Jesus cured.

If I believed that, I might wonder if people who believed this had a spirit of naming problems after spirits.



That verse doesn't mention masturbation. What man is this? A man is not to look at a woman in order to covet her. He doesn't have to even see her naked for that. He doesn't have to masturbate to do that. Why would a man have to covet a woman or think about a specific woman to masturbate? What if a married man thought about his own wife?

Masturbation existed before Internet porn was widely available. When I was in high school, the Internet was some text thing used by NASA. Some kids still joked and made nasty comments about masturbation. Was there no masturbation ion earth before 1826, before the first photograph? If we dug, we could probably find some historical references, maybe some guidelines for priests' requiring penance in the middle ages or something from ancient Rome.

I'm wondering if some people read a certain set of life experiences into some of these passages.

Why are you saying this? Is it because you have experience with this and every time you did this you lusted for a woman? If that is your experience, does that mean it was the experience of everyone who masturbated?



I've already posted that masturbation isn't something I'd encourage people to do, but it also isn't something I'm going to speak out and condemn people as sinners for doing, since I can't find scripture to back that up. I'll speak out against looking with lust... and masturbation doesn't have to occur for that to happen.

You seem to be implying that I have 'the spirit of lust.' First of all, do you actually have any 'revelation' behind your worldview and accusation of people having demons? If you are wrong, you could be slandering someone, which is actually a sin. In your own worldview, would youthink that that would have to necessitate your getting demon-possessed by a slander demon for that to even occur? I believe ___people___ can sin, whether demons directly tempt them or not., btw I wouldn't want to accuse someone of having a 'spirit' without something revelatory to back that up, something from scripture or from the Holy Spirit. Telling baby believers they have demons when they don't can mess with their heads, so you'd better be careful.



If you've got not evidence from scripture, you can just use implied accusations and rhetoric like this to 'strengthen' your arguments I suppose.


I don't want to 'invite an evil spirit in.' You should be careful not to accuse others. That's one of my concerns here. I don't know if it is true that over 95% or 96% of men have masturbated. I don't want to accuse them of sin if I don't have scripture to back it up. I'm not encouraging it, but I'm not going to condemn without a basis.

I would encourage you to really dig deeply into the Bible about what you believe and about your worldview. You mentioned Derek Prince. i like Derek Prince, I mean the late Derek Prince's videos and materials. But I am wary of some of his demonology and that sort of thing. Everything needs to be evaluated against what is revealed in scripture. I don't see the idea that if there is a sin, social ill, or problem, that there MUST be a demon named after that specific problem. That idea has run wild in Charismania since.

I guess you got triggered judging from you repeated posts and diatribes about masturbation is somehow good.

Let me get this straight, you like Derek Prince. So you've heard many of his videos and teachings. Did you like any of the testimonies about when he cast the spirit of masturbation out of different people and how that spirit always leaves through their fingers?

How come you don't want me talking about demonology? Is that you talking, or...someone else?

I didn't condemn anyone but somebody who writes as much as you do about masturbation and how it is ok...can't admit that they themselves do the practice? I don't believe that someone can write that much about something without knowing a very lot about it! There is another guy here that has chided me for speaking about demons, we don't need that! he said...

And what's this stuff from you about, if it isn't in the bible specifically, then it has to be ok? Would you dare to try to hold God to the Word inasmuch as He can't say it is an evil practice now? That's absurd. Anti=rapture people say that, and so do homosexuals.

They're called "Translations" and it depends on what translation you are reading to if a certain word is in there. The word Rapture isn't in my Translation, but it is in the Latin Vulgate! So maybe you just need to read a more modern translation to get the words you (do not) seek.

Try the NLT bible, that will give you plenty to write about, lol.

Transgender isn't in scripture, that must be good too?

Your problem is the letter of the word and not the Spirit of the word.


2nd Corinthians 3:6
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life..../KJV

And that's what you are doing. "It doesn't say it in scripture exactly that way, so it is ok to go masturbate"? Uhh, good luck with that.

 

[Edward429451]

I wonder how you define selfishness. I say that because you say that selfishness is not necessarily sinful. There are plenty of bible verses against sinfulness, For example:

“Let no one seek his own, but each one the other’s well-being.” (1Co 10:24 NKJV)

All selfishness is a manifestation of Pride. Pride is clearly spoken against in scripture!

 

[Edward429451]

Here's a more modern translation for the homosexuals out there who say "homosexual" isn't in the bible.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,
10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.
11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God..../NLT

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I get this from some people when alcohol comes up. I've tasted beer and wine a few times in my life. But I'm not a drinker, but you point out that the Bible doesn't say it's a sin to drink, and some religious people will accuse you of being a social drinker, a drunk, loving sin, or whatever. If you don't have a solid argument, you can just call the other person a wanker I suppose.

You only think I don't have a solid argument because you love this sin and don't want to stop it.

The Bible is written the way it is because it is written to God's people. The closer you are in fellowship and obedience to Him, the clearer the nuances become.

For example, the Bible talks about sexual immorality, impurity and lewdness. A Christian who is very close to God will be led by the Holy Spirit to look up those words, so that they can know what specific things under

I never had sex with a girlfriend. My wife and I waited until we got married. We were both Christians. I've got an 'outlet' through marriage a lot of singles don't, and a lot of them are younger than I am. If some of them masturbate from time to time, do you have any __scriptures___ that accuse them of sin for doing so. There are chapters that list sexual sins. Where is this mentioned?

I already pointed out that masturbation falls under sexual immorality, impurity and lewdness. But like I said before, you don't want to accept this because this is a sin you love and can't let go of.

Single Christian people don't have to struggle with this. They have the Holy Spirit to help them overcome this.

Satan will try once in a while to get me tempted, but I always run to God to keep me strong and be able to resist and say no to the temptation or sin. I've said before that being in Christ, it get's easier remaining in Him to overcome this sin and all others.

Do you care what God thinks? Where has God revealed that this is a sin?

Yeah, I do a lot.

I do Bible study with the Lord. When He showed me that masturbation falls under sexual immorality, impurity and lewdness, I knew I couldn't ignore what He's teaching me.

It was difficult at first because the Holy Spirit and my own desires where struggling with each other, but this taught me perseverance to not give up. The more I yielded to the Holy Spirit, the less difficult it was to overcome this sin.

It got to the point where it was very easy to say no to this sin or temptation of it and the Holy Spirit maintains the strength to keep doing so and remains vigilant if the temptation arises.

I really love the freedom that God has given me. It's hard to describe! But in no way do I ever want to go back to this sexual immorality, impurity and lewdness.

In the Bible, there are certain people that are demonized. Typically, they are raving. It may throw them to the ground, speak through them. Then there is the issue of the world being under the power of the evil one. But not everyone is laying on the ground with demons talking through them or breaking chains with superhuman strength. The verses you quoted didn't say that anyone who sins is demonized. Is that what you believe?

You don't have to be frothing in the mouth or shaking on the ground etc. to be oppressed (in the case of Christians). That's possession by demons of non-believers. But the Bible does talk of not letting satan (or his demons) get a foothold by committing sins. I already wrote on that.

Do you love assuming and accusing others? What do you do on the alcohol threads? You could see wearing jeans or red dresses as part of sexual immorality. But does the Bible teach that? I've heard both mentioned in preaching.

You say you're a Christian, right? We're suppose to admonish each other to righteous living, especially since we're so close to the very last days.

The Bible says that there will be an increase of wickedness and the love of most will grow cold. This is occurring now, not only in the world, but among Christianity.

There has always been some apostasy, some falling away, but now it's infected a lot of us within the world-wide Christian community.

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

This Bible passage is talking about Christians, not unbelievers. This is why I don't care much what other Christians say, especially if what they say doesn't line up with what the Bible says.

 

[presidente]

I guess you got triggered judging from you repeated posts and diatribes about masturbation is somehow good.

Calling other people's posts 'diatribes' is not a formula for respectful conversation.

I am also not saying that 'masturbation is somehow good.' I am saying if you are going to accuse people of sin, you need to have some actual scripture to back it up. The case against masturbation is as loose as the case against birth control, and maybe even weaker.

Now, within your world view, should you consider that you wrote that about me because of a 'lying spirit' or a 'spirit of inaccuracy.' Would have to consider that you need to have a demon cast out of you?

Do you think all sins are caused by specific demons named after that sin?

Let me get this straight, you like Derek Prince. So you've heard many of his videos and teachings. Did you like any of the testimonies about when he cast the spirit of masturbation out of different people and how that spirit always leaves through their fingers?

I've never heard that one. He had a good teaching on fasting. Someone on a forum asked who readers would prefer as a teacher, Kenneth Hagin or Derek Prince. I thought Derek Prince, except I was wary of his emphasis on demons and the way he viewed it. Someone said Hagin liked Derek Prince, but was wary of his teachings on demons.

I'm not going to base doctrine on Prince's experience. I know there are a lot of Charismatics and people in the signs and wonders movement who make light use of scripture and a lot of their rapidly evolving doctrine is based on what preacher's say and other people's experiences.

I have a question for you? When you accuse someone of having a spirit or a demon do you feel like you have to have some sort of revelation from the Holy Spirit to say that, or is it just derived from a world view you've picked up from others?

Is it like this for you? Do you think like this?

"You watch porn, so I cast out that lust demon."
"You have pain, so I cast out that pain demon."
"You have arthritis so I cast out that arthritis demon."
"You lost a foot, so I cast out that spirit of one-footed-ness."
"Your food is not salty so I cast out the spirit of unsaltiness out of your food."

How come you don't want me talking about demonology? Is that you talking, or...someone else?

I'm not going to accuse you of needing to have a 'spirit of slander' or a 'spirit of accusation' in you. I believe you need to take responsibility for your own actions, and if I don't actually perceive a spirit myself, I have no right to make the accusation. (And a childish assumption that if someone has a problem they must have a demon named after that problem doesn't count.)

I would remind you of James 4:11
Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge

I would also point you to the numerous scriptures that address sin as people's responsibility. You can go through Paul's letters and see that Paul exhorts people to steal no more and to work with their own hands... with no recommendation to cast out demons of theft or laziness out of them. He doesn't say to cast the demon of fornication out of people in I Corinthians 5 and 6. He doesn't tell them to cast out the spirit of division in I Corinthians 2 by yelling at it, or tell them to cast out a spirit of disorderly use of gifts in chapter 14, or a demon of denying the resurrection of the dead in chapter 15. Jesus said to his audience, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. He didn't say He needed to cast out their spirit of unrepentance, and we never see Him rebuking the spirit of unbelief in the Bible.

Btw, I also didn't say I didn't want you talking about demonology. Be careful not to misrepresent others? But again, I take that as _____your____ choice, and ____your_____ responsibility. If a demon is involved, I haven't perceived that, so I choose not to misrepresent you. Rather, I think it is good if you rethink this issue, actually study what the Bible teaches on it instead of repeating stuff from preachers or books you've read, and pray about it.

I didn't condemn anyone but somebody who writes as much as you do about masturbation and how it is ok...can't admit that they themselves do the practice? I don't believe that someone can write that much about something without knowing a very lot about it! There is another guy here that has chided me for speaking about demons, we don't need that! he said...

I just choose not to comment on whether I ever masturbated. When I see people posting stuff that implies that someone who masturbates ___has to be looking at porn__ or has to be thinking lustful thoughts, I'm thinking there is a really big chance that they are reading their own personal experience into the situation.

If I don't have scripture to back it up, I'm not willing to heap condemnation upon teens. I'm willing to teach on and promote waiting until marriage, not looking with lust, etc. That can be taught out of the Bible without getting 'too creative.' Then there is medical stuff like collecting samples for fertility (never had an issue with that personally, praise God) or masturbation incorporated into a marital sexual experience. One of the posters here allowed for that... but we wouldn't allow sex with a non-spouse for the same reasons.

And what's this stuff from you about, if it isn't in the bible specifically, then it has to be ok? Would you dare to try to hold God to the Word inasmuch as He can't say it is an evil practice now? That's absurd. Anti=rapture people say that, and so do homosexuals.

You aren't making much sense here? Are you wanting to say, 'Thus saith the Lord' a prophecy that God has now revealed that masturbation is evil, but that the Bible does not teach that it is evil? Are you implying that the Bible doesn't teach that there is a rapture? There is I Thessalonians 4. It happens at the parousia according to that passage. Are you trying to imply that the Bible doesn't address homosexual activity? Look at Leviticus 18, 19, Romans 1, I Timothy 1, and I Corinthians 6.

They're called "Translations" and it depends on what translation you are reading to if a certain word is in there. The word Rapture isn't in my Translation, but it is in the Latin Vulgate! So maybe you just need to read a more modern translation to get the words you (do not) seek.

'Rapture' is not in the Vulgate, but a related Latin word is. But what is your point? How does this relate to the topic. We aren't talking about just a word showing up in a translation, but a scripture addressing the topic.

Transgender isn't in scripture, that must be good too?

Men dressing as women and women as men is addressed. So is homosexual activity.

Your problem is the letter of the word and not the Spirit of the word.

The passage in II Corinthians is about the letter v. the Spirit, not 'the Spirit of the word.' The 'spirit of the law' is an idea from Augustine, maybe Ambrose and California law, not what Paul was talking about.

2nd Corinthians 3:6
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life..../KJV

And that's what you are doing. "It doesn't say it in scripture exactly that way, so it is ok to go masturbate"? Uhh, good luck with that.

IMO, a rather poor interpretation of the passage. Did you read the whole chapter and try to get the gist of what Paul is saying?

 

[presidente]

You only think I don't have a solid argument because you love this sin and don't want to stop it.

I'm married, getting late in the so-called 'middle age' space here, so I have a reason to expend my energies on my wife. I will say I've never been drunk or slept around. But I don't care to comment on whether I've done the matter in question. I don't feel like I have justification, from scripture, to condemn other people.

The Bible is written the way it is because it is written to God's people. The closer you are in fellowship and obedience to Him, the clearer the nuances become.

For example, the Bible talks about sexual immorality, impurity and lewdness. A Christian who is very close to God will be led by the Holy Spirit to look up those words, so that they can know what specific things under...
...

I do Bible study with the Lord. When He showed me that masturbation falls under sexual immorality, impurity and lewdness, I knew I couldn't ignore what He's teaching me.

This seems pretty close to prophesying that the words in the Bible mean this and that, and your basis for condemning those who do this or have done this is divine revelation, or being closer to God than they are. If that is what you believe, by all means, abstain from that activity.

Btw, I don't see anything connecting masturbation to porneia, whoring around, in how the term is used. Impurity can be used of moral impurity or OT uncleanness. Male masturbation could lead to ritual uncleanness in the law of Moses, but so could intercourse, which is clearly not forbidden.

 

[Edify]

I've already posted that masturbation isn't something I'd encourage people to do, but it also isn't something I'm going to speak out and condemn people as sinners for doing, since I can't find scripture to back that up. I'll speak out against looking with lust... and masturbation doesn't have to occur for that to happen.

2 things I see here... 1. that speaking against masterbation is automatically condemnation, which is a psychological play to shut down those who believe it to be sin. That's not proper, but judging those who disagree.
2. you have said you didn't do it, yet you say it can be done without lusting over someone.
Since your own claims say you have no experience, then you have no real knowledge of what masterbation is capable of doing.
I'm disturbed that a man of your spiritual education knows nothing about this.

 

[presidente]

2 things I see here... 1. that speaking against masterbation is automatically condemnation, which is a psychological play to shut down those who believe it to be sin. That's not proper, but judging those who disagree.

I consider calling something a sin to be condemning that activity. I don't intend it as any kind of psychological play.

2. you have said you didn't do it, yet you say it can be done without lusting over someone.
Since your own claims say you have no experience, then you have no real knowledge of what masterbation is capable of doing.
I'm disturbed that a man of your spiritual education knows nothing about this.

No, I said I wasn't going to comment on whether I'd done this before. But I suspect that those who post along the lines of masturbation=porn use __might__ be writing based on their own past experience, or it could be experiences with others.

Do you think this is a sin for medical reasons-- e.g. fertility sample collection (not using porn of course) or for alleviating a prostate condition? What about incorporated into a marital bedroom experience?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I'm married, getting late in the so-called 'middle age' space here, so I have a reason to expend my energies on my wife. I will say I've never been drunk or slept around. But I don't care to comment on whether I've done the matter in question. I don't feel like I have justification, from scripture, to condemn other people.


This seems pretty close to prophesying that the words in the Bible mean this and that, and your basis for condemning those who do this or have done this is divine revelation, or being closer to God than they are. If that is what you believe, by all means, abstain from that activity.

Btw, I don't see anything connecting masturbation to porneia, whoring around, in how the term is used. Impurity can be used of moral impurity or OT uncleanness. Male masturbation could lead to ritual uncleanness in the law of Moses, but so could intercourse, which is clearly not forbidden.

This is just going over old ground. You're obviously going to keep doing it. So I'll leave it here.

 

[Suze]

We r all de

I wonder how you define selfishness. I say that because you say that selfishness is not necessarily sinful. There are plenty of bible verses against sinfulness, For example:

“Let no one seek his own, but each one the other’s well-being.” (1Co 10:24 NKJV)[/QUOTE
We r all definitely selfish and I can prove it .

I wonder how you define selfishness. I say that because you say that selfishness is not necessarily sinful. There are plenty of bible verses against sinfulness, For example:

“Let no one seek his own, but each one the other’s well-being.” (1Co 10:24 NKJV)

We r all selfish and I can prove it . Do u have any savings ? Own your own home ? A car ? Jewellery ?
Matthew chapter 10 verses 17-22 . We r all selfish and if selfishness is a sin then we r all sinners .

 

[Edify]

Do you think this is a sin for medical reasons-- e.g. fertility sample collection (not using porn of course) or for alleviating a prostate condition?

There's a medical procedure that doesnt require it.

 

[Suze]

We r all de



We r all selfish and I can prove it . Do u have any savings ? Own your own home ? A car ? Jewellery ?
Matthew chapter 10 verses 17-22 . We r all selfish and if selfishness is a sin then we r all sinners .

Mark Chapter 10 not Matthew

 

[Suze]

I wonder how you define selfishness. I say that because you say that selfishness is not necessarily sinful. There are plenty of bible verses against sinfulness, For example:

“Let no one seek his own, but each one the other’s well-being.” (1Co 10:24 NKJV)

Mark chapter 10 not Matthew , sorry .

 

[CS1]

If masturbation is a sin, then if masturbating for medical purposes, doing it for the doctor is okay in your book, why wouldn't having intercourse with the nurse... to get a sample... be okay? 'Thou shalt not commit adultery' is in the Bible. Masturbation isn't specifically mentioned.



I'm saying back up your teachings with scripture, not loose reasoning.

• Those are terms that can be used to describe other sins. 'Wickedness' might translate a stronger word to describe especially egregious sin.

Broad categories of sin. Shameful lusts tempt people to commit shameful sins.

This cover a whole host of things.



Solo masturbation could occur in a bedroom. So could adultery. Are those nobody's business? If it's sinful and it occurs in a bedroom, it's still sinful, and occurring in a bedroom doesn't make it nobody's business.

{quote]
and trying to make one or God seem so unreasonable sound just like the snake in the garden " you shall not surely die."

Non sequitur. Where is the logical connection to what we were talking about.


I was surprised to learn that there were porn addicts depriving their wives. I'd have thought porn would have worked them up and the problem would be when their wives found out, they would feel like the men were thinking about other women (which probably happens too.) But there are married men who get addicted to the dopamine, watch porn, masturbate, then deprive their wives. There are two sin issues here--- looking at women with lust, and depriving the wife. Of course, single men can do the same thing.

But not everyone who has masturbated was looking at online porn. The word masturbate existed when I was a teenager, and there was no online porn, and kids that wanted porn had to go through an adult at a counter at the convenience store, when the porn was behind the counter, or steal some from an adult who was into that. My guess is fewer adults were into that many decades ago. I also heard or read once about a landlady who peeped through a keyhole at a tenant and had a man arrested for masturbation in California back in the 1800s. There were likely some people who masturbated before photos were invented. Maybe they were staring at cave paintings.

Again, my issue here is people throwing around accusations and adjectives without having solid scriptural arguments for what they are accusing others of. The teenager who gets wound up and relieves some pressure or tension or whatever, or even the married couple in the examples mentioned before, the husband getting fertility exams, etc. are all condemned by some of the rhetoric on this forum (you carve out exceptions for the latter two.) The theological reasoning for no birth control is pretty similar to that used for outlawing masturbation. You've got to take a few 'leaps' that aren't supported by scripture to arrive at the conclusions. I'm pointing that out. John wrote that sin is the transgression of the law.[/QUOTE]
it is common sense there are medical reason why one would have to provide a sample in that manner. It seems strange one would even have to explain again the context of medical reasons such has heathy seed to impregnate a women or one's wife. How is that sin? where as addiction to porn and the action of that is clearly not the same would you not agree?

If you have to ask why having sexual intercourse with the nurse to get one sample you have displayed clear perversion in your thinking. I have never heard of such twisted reasoning to defend a sexual perversion before it also most laughable if it were not so stupid.

I don't need to back up what is clearly an empty thought and anecdotical response . You need to back up your position with scripture.