Is it Total Depravity?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
It might be worth mentioning, I believe if that soul, through the process above continues to reject the grace of God and His mercy, then that person does become totally depraved both in body and soul.

If it continues, it will be because the soul loves the ways of the flesh.
That soul reveals that it too is depraved by choice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sawdust
Is treating another like you want to be treated a human good? No, it's the highest divine law.

That is called establishment law.
Law of human interaction within a society to guarantee freedom in the land.

The golden rule was not invented by Jesus.
Jesus was simply repeating a well established rabbinical decree.

The Golden Rule, often summarized as "treat others as you would like to be treated," is a principle found in many cultures and religions throughout history. It is not exclusive to Christianity or Jesus.

The golden rule was to grant freedom within a national entity among it various peoples.
For both believer and unbeliever alike.
 
That is called establishment law.
Law of human interaction within a society to guarantee freedom in the land.

The golden rule was not invented by Jesus.
Jesus was simply repeating a well established rabbinical decree.

The Golden Rule, often summarized as "treat others as you would like to be treated," is a principle found in many cultures and religions throughout history. It is not exclusive to Christianity or Jesus.

The golden rule was to grant freedom within a national entity among it various peoples.
For both believer and unbeliever alike.

But it is the highest divine law. So if it's in every culture then that is evidence that the spirit of God speaks to all of humanity.

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12
 
  • Like
Reactions: GWH
I'd like to see evidence of that
Rabbi Hillel's Golden Rule states, "What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow:
This is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."
This principle emphasizes treating others with kindness and respect,
forming a foundational ethical guideline in Judaism.

Jesus was perfectly teaching the true ways of Judaism!
He was a rabbi!
 
But it is the highest divine law. So if it's in every culture then that is evidence that the spirit of God speaks to all of humanity.

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12

In that sense?

Capital punishment is also divine law.

For believer and unbelievers!
 
Rabbi Hillel's Golden Rule states, "What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow:
This is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."
This principle emphasizes treating others with kindness and respect,
forming a foundational ethical guideline in Judaism.

Jesus was perfectly teaching the true ways of Judaism!
He was a rabbi!

I've read that Hillel said that, but I want to see written evidence. It could just be a tradition attributed to Hillel from Christianity's influence. So if you can point me to where Hillel actually wrote that, I will appreciate it.
 
I've read that Hillel said that, but I want to see written evidence. It could just be a tradition attributed to Hillel from Christianity's influence. So if you can point me to where Hillel actually wrote that, I will appreciate it.

Or a pre-first century writing in which someone attributes that quote to Hillel will work
 
.

If man were in a state of total depravity?
Total = 100% depraved?
Then God would have NOTHING to save!

What we have been told to believe by some has been a case of a well-intentioned misnomer.

For when it comes to the unrighteousness of man?
It is not actually total depravity.
But, the total incapacitation of man.

Man has been totally incapacitated....
He is unable to function as God intended.

We need to rethink that over for a while.

grace and peace ............
only God is Good when it comes to the natural man 🤩
 
I've read that Hillel said that, but I want to see written evidence. It could just be a tradition attributed to Hillel from Christianity's influence. So if you can point me to where Hillel actually wrote that, I will appreciate it.

Are you suggesting the Jesus taught something radically new with the Golden rule?
 
only God is Good when it comes to the natural man 🤩

Only God is inherently good but creation is declared good when in accordance with His will. Gen.1:31

As far as fallen man is concerned, his soul is neither good nor evil, the corruption dwells in the flesh. He learns good and evil and in accepting or rejecting God's grace, becomes who he follows as declared by God.
 
only God is Good when it comes to the natural man 🤩
allhavesinned.png

“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone. Mark ch. 10 verse 18 and Luke ch. 18 verse 19 “There is only One who is good.” Matthew ch. 19 verse 17b. There is no one who does good. fr Psalm ch. 14. There is no one righteous, not even one. Romans ch. 3 verse 10. They are corrupt; their ways are vile. There is no one who does good. All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. fr Psalm ch. 53 verses 1-3. Surely there is no righteous man on earth who does good and never sins. Ecclesiastes ch. 7 verse 20. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jordon
I've read that Hillel said that, but I want to see written evidence. It could just be a tradition attributed to Hillel from Christianity's influence. So if you can point me to where Hillel actually wrote that, I will appreciate it.

Please... Google it!

There is a whole lot of information about it.

I learned of that years ago.
 
only God is Good when it comes to the natural man 🤩

When you are filled with the Spirit?
And understanding sound doctrine... and walking in it?
You are being good in God's eyes.

You cease being the natural man in that state of grace.

......
 
  • Like
Reactions: sawdust
Only God is inherently good but creation is declared good when in accordance with His will. Gen.1:31

As far as fallen man is concerned, his soul is neither good nor evil, the corruption dwells in the flesh. He learns good and evil and in accepting or rejecting God's grace, becomes who he follows as declared by God.
He saw that his creation good, he eve s
Only God is inherently good but creation is declared good when in accordance with His will. Gen.1:31

As far as fallen man is concerned, his soul is neither good nor evil, the corruption dwells in the flesh. He learns good and evil and in accepting or rejecting God's grace, becomes who he follows as declared by God.
Only God is Good when it comes to the natural man
 
It's possible. I have to have more evidence before I can make up my mind.

The lawyer who summed up the Law to love God with all you are and love others as yourself, Jesus agreed was Torah teaching not Him teaching something new. Lk.10:28

I can't see any difference between loving others as yourself and treating others as you want to be treated. Can you?

Also Jesus used the OT scriptures to explain His own mission to the two disciples on the Emmaus road. It seems to me that if the OT can contain all that is needed for the Messiah to complete His mission faithfully, loving others would be a pre-requsite and hence also taught in the OT.
 
When you are filled with the Spirit?
And understanding sound doctrine... and walking in it?
You are being good in God's eyes.

You cease being the natural man in that state of grace.

......
only God is good when it comes to the natural man 🤩
 
He saw that his creation good, he eve s Only God is Good when it comes to the natural man

Only God is inherently good but creation is declared good when in accordance with His will. Gen.1:31

As far as fallen man is concerned, his soul is neither good nor evil, the corruption dwells in the flesh. He learns good and evil and in accepting or rejecting God's grace, becomes who he follows as declared by God.