Is faith a work?

[FreeGrace2]

I love what scripture states.

It states, very clearly, that Faith is a gift from God.

Nonsense. It is salvation that is the gift in Eph 2:8, which I've proved from Greek grammar.

It states that Salvation is NOT OF OURSELVES.

That is correct. God does the saving.

It states that Salvation is NOT OF WORKS.

Correct. It is by grace.

So you have a choice. Believe scripture. Or believe your opinion.

Since the genders are the SAME for salvation and gift, I WILL believe Scripture, unlike your stubborn self.

Why don't you believe scripture?

Why don't you? I've proven my belief with Greek grammar. You have nothing but your own biased opinion.

If faith is not a gift of God then it is a work of people.

That is a fallacy. Man believes with his heart. Rom 10:10.

And that would make the scripture false. Which is what your philosophy attempts to make scripture.

Apparently you have a bunch of false notions, probably from ignorant pastors or SS teachers, who have been duped themselves.

The gift of God is salvation and eternal life. Eph 2:8 and Rom 6:23

Faith or believing comes from the heart of man. Rom 10:10

 

[FreeGrace2]

Ephesians 2:8-9 says salvation and grace and faith are all gifts.

No it doesn't. Follow the genders. Genders that match are linked. faith in Eph 2:8 is masculine and salvaiton and gift are feminine.

If you want to argue with the Greek, be my guest. I'm not going to.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If you are following someone like FreeGrace2, then I do not know what to say. He is lost as a Rocky Mountain Billy goat.

Likewise, do you think the internet or a site like Biblehub.com is the last word on Greek grammatical arguments? I thought better of you.

Go ahead and prove BibleHub.com to be wrong.

 

[awelight]

No it doesn't. Follow the genders. Genders that match are linked. faith in Eph 2:8 is masculine and salvaiton and gift are feminine.

If you want to argue with the Greek, be my guest. I'm not going to.

Geeeee... I didn't know Greek authorities needed to go to the Internet for parsing.

 

[Cameron143]

No it doesn't. Follow the genders. Genders that match are linked. faith in Eph 2:8 is masculine and salvaiton and gift are feminine.

If you want to argue with the Greek, be my guest. I'm not going to.

The words follow gender as in any language. Faith is a masculine word in Greek. Gift is a feminine word. Thus the difference.

 

[awelight]

Seems the Bible is clear that faith is not a gift and there aren't any verses that say it is.

On the interest of understanding Eph. 2:8 - you might want to consider this, before believing a website:

"In this verse, to what does the word "that" refer to? Adam Clarke, Wesley & company say that it is neuter plural and "Faith" is feminine hence it cannot refer to faith, (Such an admission would destroy their theological system.) However "Grace" is also feminine as is "Salvation".''

His reply was:
"Here you ask a wonderful theological/exegetical question to which I can only give an opinion, and not a definitive answer. The problem is that there is NO precise referent. Grace is feminine. Faith is feminine. And even Salvation (as a noun) is feminine. Yet it must be one of these three at least, and maybe more than one, or all three in conjunction. Since all three come from God and not from man, the latter might seem the more likely. However, it is a tautology to say salvation and grace are "nor of yourselves," and in that case it certainly looks more like the passage is really pointing out that man cannot even take credit for his own act of faith, but that faith was itself created by God and implanted in us that we might believe (i.e. the normal Calvinistic position). In which regard the whole theological issue of "regeneration preceding faith" comes into play. So, that is basically my opinion, though others obviously disagree strenuously, but from an exegetical standpoint, the other positions have to explain away the matter of the tautology.''
Whether you accept the reply or not, it is sufficient to show that the Greek is not as definitive in this verse as some scholars would have you believe. Editor)

This fair and unbiased study.

 

[Runningman]

Ephesians 2:8-9 says salvation and grace and faith are all gifts.

Let me explain how this reads to me.

This is Ephesians 2:8,9 from whatever random version I clicked on and it happened to be NIV but I'll show the KJV, too, because a lot of people prefer it.

Eph. 2:8,9 NIV
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Eph. 2:8,9 KJV
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

By grace someone is saved and faith is the vehicle for that grace. The gift itself is the salvation, but in order to access that grace one must have faith. Therefore, God produces that grace based on our faith and sustains the salvation with His grace.

The below verse confirms this. Grace is accessed by faith and by God's grace we have salvation.

Rom. 5:1,2 NIV
1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God.

Rom. 5:1,2 KJV
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

 

[Cameron143]

Let me explain how this reads to me.

This is Ephesians 2:8,9 from whatever random version I clicked on and it happened to be NIV but I'll show the KJV, too, because a lot of people prefer it.

Eph. 2:8,9 NIV
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Eph. 2:8,9 KJV
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

By grace someone is saved and faith is the vehicle for that grace. The gift itself is the salvation, but in order to access that grace one must have faith. Therefore, God produces that grace based on our faith and sustains the salvation with His grace.

The below verse confirms this. Grace is accessed by faith and by God's grace we have salvation.

Rom. 5:1,2 NIV
1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God.

Rom. 5:1,2 KJV
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Our faith is a work. The faith that causes belief in us is a gift...it is the faith of Christ. It is also the same faith that we are to live by...Galatians 2:20.
Salvation is a work begun by God in us and continued by God in us. It is always initiated by God. This was the case with Noah. This was the case with Abraham. It was the case with Adam and Eve. None of them went looking for God. He sovereignly chose to seek them out and set His affection upon them.
Adam and Eve after sin hid from God and clothed themselves. God met them in their lost estate having sought them out and clothed them in acceptable attire. The fig leaves represent the attempt to cloth themselves appropriately for God. He shed blood for their clothing thus allowing for forgiveness and pointing towards Christ.
You seem to be genuinely seeking truth and I pray God will lead you into all truth.

 

[Runningman]

On the interest of understanding Eph. 2:8 - you might want to consider this, before believing a website:

"In this verse, to what does the word "that" refer to? Adam Clarke, Wesley & company say that it is neuter plural and "Faith" is feminine hence it cannot refer to faith, (Such an admission would destroy their theological system.) However "Grace" is also feminine as is "Salvation".''

His reply was:
"Here you ask a wonderful theological/exegetical question to which I can only give an opinion, and not a definitive answer. The problem is that there is NO precise referent. Grace is feminine. Faith is feminine. And even Salvation (as a noun) is feminine. Yet it must be one of these three at least, and maybe more than one, or all three in conjunction. Since all three come from God and not from man, the latter might seem the more likely. However, it is a tautology to say salvation and grace are "nor of yourselves," and in that case it certainly looks more like the passage is really pointing out that man cannot even take credit for his own act of faith, but that faith was itself created by God and implanted in us that we might believe (i.e. the normal Calvinistic position). In which regard the whole theological issue of "regeneration preceding faith" comes into play. So, that is basically my opinion, though others obviously disagree strenuously, but from an exegetical standpoint, the other positions have to explain away the matter of the tautology.''
Whether you accept the reply or not, it is sufficient to show that the Greek is not as definitive in this verse as some scholars would have you believe. Editor)

This fair and unbiased study.

True, its a matter of opinion and interpretation like the commenter says (and I respect his openmind and thoughtful answer,) but he falls short of removing all doubt about it. Faith being a work, something we produce, is Biblically viable. Really if we just had something other than Ephesians 2:8,9 which plainly says "Faith is a gift" I would pack my bag and go home. However, what I see is there are verses that say salvation and grace are a gift, but nothing for faith.

Salvation as a Gift:
Romans 6:23
23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

John 4:10
10Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Grace as a Gift:
2 Corinthians 9:14,15
14And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you. 15Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.

Taking all of that into account, with the absence of faith being plainly stated to be a gift, I conclude Ephesians 2:8,9 is about salvation and grace being a gift, not the faith. The faith is a choice, as far as I can tell, and a Greek interpretation of Eph. 2:8,9 is viable.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Geeeee... I didn't know Greek authorities needed to go to the Internet for parsing.

They don't. I do. What's your point?

 

[FreeGrace2]

The words follow gender as in any language. Faith is a masculine word in Greek. Gift is a feminine word. Thus the difference.

You miss the point. Salvation is also feminine, so it is salvation and gift that go together. Eph 2:8 does not say that faith is a gift.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Our faith is a work.

Wrong. The biblical use of "work" is whatever earns something, like a paycheck.

Rom 4-
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

And then there is Eph 2:8,9.

The faith that causes belief in us is a gift...it is the faith of Christ.

What verse tells you that "faith causes belief"? Both are nouns and mean the same thing.

 

[Cameron143]

Wrong. The biblical use of "work" is whatever earns something, like a paycheck.

Rom 4-
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

And then there is Eph 2:8,9.


What verse tells you that "faith causes belief"? Both are nouns and mean the same thing.

Galatians 2:20 says he lives by the faith of the Son of God. This is the faith we are given in salvation and the faith that allows us to walk in the Spirit.

 

[Cameron143]

Wrong. The biblical use of "work" is whatever earns something, like a paycheck.

Rom 4-
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

And then there is Eph 2:8,9.


What verse tells you that "faith causes belief"? Both are nouns and mean the same thing.

Our faith is a work. We believe. That is a work. It is something we do.

 

[Mem]

oo! I saw that genders have been introduced into the discussion, and it recalled to me a lesson in the significance of the distinctions! So, if salvation and gift are feminine, this suggests each concept's potential for birth, and if faith's gender is masculine, then this suggests its designation to work.
I wish I could offer a better synopsis of the lesson but I'm not familiar enough with the material to simplify it adequately. It goes something like, as such as in natural matters of, well, generation, so it is also in language, the masculine (is) giver, or does the work, and the feminine (is) a receiver, nurtures the "gift" and brings it to birth... And in this case, faith (masculine) coupling with salvation (feminine) births a new life!

 

[Runningman]

For it is by grace you have been saved (feminine gender), through faith (masculine gender)—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift (feminine gender) of God—

Can you link that, please? I’m trying to look into it a bit deeper and I can’t find where there the gift is referred to in the feminine gender.

 

[Runningman]

oo! I saw that genders have been introduced into the discussion, and it recalled to me a lesson in the significance of the distinctions! So, if salvation and gift are feminine, this suggests each concept's potential for birth, and if faith's gender is masculine, then this suggests its designation to work.
I wish I could offer a better synopsis of the lesson but I'm not familiar enough with the material to simplify it adequately. It goes something like, as such as in natural matters of, well, generation, so it is also in language, the masculine (is) giver, or does the work, and the feminine (is) a receiver, nurtures the "gift" and brings it to birth... And in this case, faith (masculine) coupling with salvation (feminine) births a new life!

As far as I understand, that’s how genders work in many languages. Makes sense to me.

 

[soberxp]

Yes,faith is a kind of work, in our mind and behavior.

 

[Mem]

Can you link that, please? I’m trying to look into it a bit deeper and I can’t find where there the gift is referred to in the feminine gender.

Typing "gift of God: into the search bar at bible hub retrieves rom6: 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. where the word for gift in the lexicon indicates the strong's5468 'charisma' which is delineated as neuter.

But in another example, referring to the gift of the Holy Spirit, Acts 10: 45 All the circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, the word for gift here is 'dorea' strong's1431 which is delineated as feminine.

Looking at Eph 2: 8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 'grace' is chariti5485 and 'faith' is pistis4102; and both are feminine and gift is doron 1435; neuter

So, I'd have to look further to see where freeG got those designation from, unless he offers the link before then that is.

But as an aside, I just noticed the strong's greek for God is theo2316, both masculine and feminine, I never realized that!

 

[Runningman]

Typing "gift of God: into the search bar at bible hub retrieves rom6: 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. where the word for gift in the lexicon indicates the strong's5468 'charisma' which is delineated as neuter.

But in another example, referring to the gift of the Holy Spirit, Acts 10: 45 All the circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, the word for gift here is 'dorea' strong's1431 which is delineated as feminine.

Looking at Eph 2: 8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 'grace' is chariti5485 and 'faith' is pistis4102; and both are feminine and gift is doron 1435; neuter

So, I'd have to look further to see where freeG got those designation from, unless he offers the link before then that is.

Yes I would like to see a bit more expounding on that with a source if possible.

But as an aside, I just noticed the strong's greek for God is theo2316, both masculine and feminine, I never realized that!

I never noticed that either, but it confirms something that I have always thought. Male and female were created in His image. God isn't a human. We understand male and female, but God is beyond all that; however, apparently He is often referred to in the masculine such as being called Father by Jesus many times.

The NIV puts it like this, other versions put it differently, but this is how understand it.

Genesis 5
1This is the written account of Adam’s family line.
When God created mankind, he made them in the likeness of God. 2He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind” when they were created.