Is Christmas paganism?

[tourist]

I can provide Scriptual evidence and historical evidence that Christmas and Easter have nothing to do with the worship of Yah and are indeed pagan in origin and practice. How many Encyclopedias would you like me to quote? WOuld you like to read Jeremiah 10 about tree worship? Or Jeremiah 7 about Ashtoreth, Ishtar, Easter, Eostre?

It is clear these "holi"days were instutited by the RCC into Christendom, and I know it can hurt because we are so accustomed to them, I celebrated them my entire life growing up, but once I read the Scripture and the history I knew it was wrong...

It;s crazy, it seems the only problem or bad thing one can do in the modern "church" is call a sin a sin... or say obedience is right...

SO where did I boast of my obedience?

you said:



You used this post as proof:



Where is the boasting of my obedience?

I spoke on a changed heart, and many people wanting a religion that suited them rather than the religion Yahshua taught. Can you tell me many people do not do this? If He changes our heart would we not want more and more to go His way? Is standing for His way the only unacceptable doctrine?

Also calling a sin what it is, a sin is not condemnation, saying one is not goingto the kingdom is condemnation...

There is nothing wrong with dying eggs with your family for Easter or enjoying an Easter dinner together. Not to mention the candy. I am going to get a chocolate bunny and bite the ear off first. Yeah, I'm down with Peeps too. Jelly Beans. Easter is the next best thing to Halloween. Not to sure about the Easter Bunny though. That might be pagan in nature.

 

[Shamah]

There is nothing wrong with dying eggs with your family for Easter or enjoying an Easter dinner together. Not to mention the candy. I am going to get a chocolate bunny and bite the ear off first. Yeah, I'm down with Peeps too. Jelly Beans. Easter is the next best thing to Halloween. Not to sure about the Easter Bunny though. That might be pagan in nature.

Well we face the matter of tradition or truth. If truth takes priority you might want to find out where the origin of egg dying comes from, I'll give you a hint: the godess Ishtar, also known as Ashtoreth, Eostre, and the Queen of Heaven...

 

[LPT]

does money have pagan roots, who invented the first gold coin?

 

[Shamah]

does money have pagan roots, who invented the first gold coin?

Is money a religious practice? or is that and apples to oranges comparison?

With that said people lusting for money and the power it brings can but a stumbling block. People should never put money before the Most High.

Matthew 6:19-20,19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal,"20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal."

 

[FlyingDove]

Question: Should we celebrate Christmas or we should not celebrate because it's paganism?

Short answer Yes! Any day is a good day to celebrate Christ.

Titus 1:
15 To the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled & unbelieving is nothing pure; even their mind & conscience is defiled

16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable & disobedient & unto every good work reprobate

Rom 14 teaches we shouldn't judge other's on what days they celebrate or what days they considered more sacred than others. We are taught that as long as we do it unto the Lord. We may eat what we want & consider what ever days we wish as more special than another.

If you don't believe Christmas should be celebrated, don't! To rain on anyone's joy. By getting between them & there thankful worship of God. For the wonderful gift of salvation offered to us in the person of Jesus Christ. Makes zero sense to me!

When was Jesus born?
I've herd many say Dec 25

I've herd many say During the Feast of Tabernacles, Sept - Oct

I herd a Messianic Rabbi lately make a great case for Nisan, March - April

I'll make my case for The Feast or Trumpets during Tekiah Ha-Gadol Sept - Oct

Start with Hanukkah also known as The Feast of Dedication (Jn 10:22) & the Festival of Lights.

Jesus the light of the world: Jn 8:12 & Jn 12:35. See "Servant" in Isa 53 & Mark 9

The Hanukkah Menorah has 9 candles. The one in the middle is called the servant candle and used to light the other 8.

Start with Hanukkah, add 266 days. The average incubation period of a human being (266 days). What feast will you come up with?

The CONCEPTION of the Lord Jesus Christ happens in December. Many Bible verses make reference to a "CHILD" while it's still in the womb.

A woman who is "with child" has another living soul "with" her. As she progresses she becomes "great with child" (Luke 1:41 & 2:5), until she is "ready to be delivered" (Revelation 12:4; see also 1 Samuel 4:19; Isaiah 26:17).

The Lord Jesus was most likely conceived in Dec 4 B.C, during Hanukkah (Festival of Lights - Feast of Dedication) Jesus is the Light of the world (John 8:12)

The Lord Jesus was then born on Sept 11th in 3 B.C, during the (Rosh Hashanah) Feast of Trumpets during Tekiah Ha-Gadol. One Hundred Shofar Blasts bring in the New Year. 33 short blasts of 3 then comes Tekiah Ha-Gadol. A single unbroken blast, held as long as possible.

The Lord Jesus was then circumcised day 8 on Sept, 19 3 BC. During the Feast of Atonement (Yom Kippur)

Then the Lord Jesus dwelled/tabernacled in a manger (sukkah) with his parents during the Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot) that yr.

1) During Trumpets: The Lord Jesus is born. (During Tekiah Ha-Gadol)
2) Day of Atonement: Circumcision Of the Lord Jesus. (Day 8)
3) During Tabernacles: The Lord Jesus dwelled/tabernacled in a manger (sukkah) with his parents.
4) During Passover: Jesus dies (Death)
5) During Unleavened Bread: Jesus is buried (Burial)
6) During Firstfruits: Jesus rises (Resurrection)
7) During Pentecost: Jesus sends the Holy Spirit (Christian Church is Born)

 

[Nehemiah6]

Question: Should we celebrate Christmas or we should not celebrate because it's paganism?

If the focus of Christmas is on Christ, it is Christian.

If the focus of Christmas is something else, it is pagan.

Take you pick.

 

[Shamah]

If the focus of Christmas is on Christ, it is Christian.

If the focus of Christmas is something else, it is pagan.

Take you pick.

If someone does all the Christmas tradtions would you consider this a "focus on Christ" or "pagan"?

 

[Nehemiah6]

If someone does all the Christmas tradtions would you consider this a "focus on Christ" or "pagan"?

Some of the traditions are harmless and express a Christian spirit (e.g. giving gifts or meals to those who are destitute or even to loved ones). Other traditions are definitely worldly and pagan (drinking and carousing and focusing on self indulgence).

 

[Blik]

My question to those who strongly oppose celebrating Christmas and view it as paganism:

"Do you condemn those who celebrate the birth of Christ during Christmas?"

If we are Christians who follow Christ, we may judge about following or not following Christmas, but we may not judge the people who make this decision. Judging people is God's work not ours.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If we are Christians who follow Christ, we may judge about following or not following Christmas, but we may not judge the people who make this decision. Judging people is God's work not ours.

That's exactly what the New Testament says about observing holy days.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Mat 4:4, “But He answering, said, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of יהוה.” (Deut 8:3)

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

well that's Jesus talking. so why are you still in the OT? we don't have to keep the law...if you keep reading in the NT, you will instruction on that very thing. read the verse you quoted...I think you missed it:

UNTIL John the law and the prophets were...SINCE that time, the Kingdom of God is preached...how do you enter the kingdom?

by believing in Christ and that He died for your sins and was resurrected and has ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God. He lives forevermore to make intercession for us. He is our High Priest and God has found His sacrifice perfect and it is the final one. yet you keep going back to the law

you are concerned with dead things. let the dead bury the dead then.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

People are free to do whatever they want, showing Jer 7 and 10, John 4:24, etc. are not defining what another does it is pointing to the word of the Most High. This thread is about if Christmas is pagan or not, so are only people that say it is not pagan allowed to post?

You say I define what is acceptable to the Most High, yet I quoted the Most High's words, He says not to worship Him in ways He does not command... and yes decorating a tree and atanding in awe to it is paying ot homage, reverence and worship and/or using it to worship the Most High:

Jeremiah 10:1-5, “Hear the word which YHWH speaks concerning you, O house of Israyl. This is what YHWH says: Do not learn the way of the heathen and do not be deceived by the signs of heaven; though the heathen are deceived by them For the religious customs of the peoples are vain; worthless! For one cuts a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. They decorate it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, so that it will not move; topple over. They are upright, like a palm tree, but they cannot speak; they must be carried, because they cannot go by themselves. Do not give them reverence! They cannot do evil, nor is it in them to do righteousness!”

Deuteronomy 12:29-, “When YHWH your Father cuts off the nations from in front of you, and you displace them and live in their land, Be careful not to be ensnared into following them by asking about their gods, saying: How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do the same. You must not worship YHWH your Father in their way, for every abomination to YHWH, which He hates, they have done to their gods."

Everyone is a t a different place in their journey but the Spirit guides all to the same place in the end. That place is truth.

John 4:24, “Yah is Spirit, and those who worship Him need to worship in spirit and truth.”

Psalm 145:18, "יהוה is near to all who call upon Him, To all who call upon Him in truth."

It does not matter how we see it.. It matters how the Creator sees it.

if you think people are free to do whatever they want, why say that only those who really understand follow what you believe?

I'm not sure you know what you believe since it is a mashup of old and new testaments

you cannot please God by trying to follow parts of the law.

don't give me this everyone is on a journey nonsense when you know full well you do not even believe that yourself and you set standards for partial law obedience when the real obedience needs to come through Christ.

Who is truth? Jesus said that HE is the Way, the TRUTH and the Life.

so follow Him...

 

[7seasrekeyed]

"Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not" (Jeremiah 10:2-4).

Forerunner of the Christmas tree?

no

carved idol

and yes I have seen that scripture used for years to claim otherwise

 

[Jesus4ever]

The facts are:

Christmas is around the pagan winter solstice, much like there is a summer solstice still celebarted in many places in Scandinavia for example.
Christmas has santa claus, elves, christmas trees (ba'al trees, check out Jeremiah 10:3-4).

The facts also are:
Christians have been celebrating the birth of Jesus during that time for centuries, and you dont need to have the santas and elves.
Even Easter has pagan things attached to it today (easter eggs, fertility symbols, witches etc.) does that mean we cannot celebrate Easter? No.

My point is, we know Christmas has a lot of pagan junk in it, just like every other holiday, but we dont have to include those in our own personal celebration. That is if we want to celebrate at all, this is an optional thing. Nobody should be condemned for days they celebrate according to the Scriptures:


Romans 14:5-6 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Agreed. Every time I celebrate Christmas, my main focus is always JESUS. Not trees, gifts, elves, etc. It´s all about the love of God for us with an opportunity to share the Gospel. It´s also an opportunity to strengthen family relations. Christmas trees, etc are mere ornaments. I do not bow to them or worship them. I just worship Jesus!

 

[tourist]

Well we face the matter of tradition or truth. If truth takes priority you might want to find out where the origin of egg dying comes from, I'll give you a hint: the godess Ishtar, also known as Ashtoreth, Eostre, and the Queen of Heaven...

I really don't give a squat about the origin of egg dying. I consider it a fun family activity. For the record, I haven't participated in this for years but have a few happy memories as a child and later as a parent. Why take all of the joy out of life sweating the small spiritually insignificant details? There are pagan origins in just about everything we do so who really cares as long as it does not have an adverse affect on our spiritual growth. As far as traditions are concerned what are biblically wrong about them?

 

[tourist]

Agreed. Every time I celebrate Christmas, my main focus is always JESUS. Not trees, gifts, elves, etc. It´s all about the love of God for us with an opportunity to share the Gospel. It´s also an opportunity to strengthen family relations. Christmas trees, etc are mere ornaments. I do not bow to them or worship them. I just worship Jesus!

I have yet to meet anyone that bows to worship to a Christmas tree decked out with ornaments. Dressing a tree for Christmas is a wholesome family activity. You certainly not going to strengthen family relations by neglecting to buy your kids a few gifts for Christmas if you can afford to do so. Santa makes a list of the children who have been naughty or nice through-out the year, nice kids get toys. I have yet to meet a naughty kid who didn't deserve a toy.

 

[Studyman]

My “New Covenant” of the Roman Catholic Church? My “Feasts unto the Lord” of the Roman Catholic Church? You never seem to run out of straw man arguments.

All you have continued to show me are straw man arguments, false accusations and your perverted gospel of salvation by “grace plus law, faith plus works.”

I’m not a Roman Catholic and I don’t follow the Pope or Constantine or believe in the power of the RCC or their religious traditions, so your ludicrous arguments are moot.

You truly sound like a frustrated man who is having a very difficult time making the transition from the old covenant into the new covenant, which is common among SDA’s, those in the Hebrew Roots movement and misguided teachers of the law in general.

Religious traditions and doctrines of man are hard to overcome.

 

[mailmandan]

Religious traditions and doctrines of man are hard to overcome.

You seemed to have mastered the art of making false accusations. You must be proud.

 

[gb9]

Religious traditions and doctrines of man are hard to overcome.

it is hard for those who think they have to earn salvation by keeping the Law/ Sabbath to give all glory to Jesus and celebrate His Birth and Resurrection .

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Well we face the matter of tradition or truth. If truth takes priority you might want to find out where the origin of egg dying comes from, I'll give you a hint: the godess Ishtar, also known as Ashtoreth, Eostre, and the Queen of Heaven...

that's not true. you would not have source for that because it does not even exist

here is a source for FIVE different theories about why people dye eggs

note these are all theories. just because it was done in a place for whatever purpose, does not mean it is THE source for all egg dying

and here is yet more info on it:

Numerous theories exist about why dyeing Easter eggs is a popular tradition. Mental Floss and the Holiday Spot suggest various histories. While there's a strong belief dyeing eggs started as a pagan tradition, apparently the connection isn't proven. I'll share some of the ideas here.
SPRING HOLIDAYS: Easter eggs were commonly painted and dyed as a part of holiday celebrations of the new season, and this tradition (used by Persian, Egyptian and other cultures) was adopted by Christians, weaving the practice into the celebration Jesus' resurrection.
PASSOVER CONNECTION: During Passover, hard-boiled eggs dipped in salt water are used as a symbol of new life and the continued use of the symbol in the closely connected religions makes sense.
BLOOD OF CHRIST: Since early egg dyeing was often red (with an egg dye made of onion skins), there are myths stating the color represents the blood of Christ. One thought is that Mary brought boiled eggs to the crucifixion and Jesus' blood dripped on them, so the red dye highlights that occurrence.
This tradition may have also taken root in Mesopotamian culture.
JESUS' TOMB: A couple of histories connect the use of the egg with the tomb of Jesus. One being that the egg resembles the tomb rolled away from the tomb which led to the discovery of Jesus rising. Another idea involves Mary Magdalene visiting the tomb and upon discovering it empty, the bag of eggs she had with her turned red.
This list is by no means exhaustive, but some of the more popular theories about dyeing Easter eggs.

source

you cannot state something as fact when it so obviously is anything...anything...but fact.