f...,
Providing we ..."maintain"......that status on a level ....acceptable at judgement after death.
Until that time and while we are on this earth we are repented...born again....not saved.
Is baptism required for salvation?
- Thread starter Hevosmies
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f...,
Providing we ..."maintain"......that status on a level ....acceptable at judgement after death.
Until that time and while we are on this earth we are repented...born again....not saved.
So where do you draw the line on acceptable. And where is the scripture to support that.
I ask because everyone sins, believers and non believers. Please do tell.
Can a believer be just a liar and be excepted simply because he believes. Or a thief? Or can he commit adultery against his wife. Wherever you draw the line, then please tell me why it is fair for two people that don't cross your line have to completely different fates based solely on their belief.
Why is it written that no one comes to the Son unless first called by the Father. And if a person is not called He will not seek Jesus. Therefore it is by nothing he did that brought about his salvation. Which is fact according to the Bible. So that means those here in this first life are chosen and do nothing to earn salvation. Ephesians talks in detail about this. Ephesians 2. As does Jesus and many other places in scripture that simply state all men will be saved. Which is the only way any of makes any sense and has no contradictions. And again it is simply stated over and over and over again. No human gets cast into the lake of fire. We are all Gods children and He loves us all the same.
How would you handle this?
John 12 (Jesus speaking)
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Not that it matters or anything. It's just the most important message of the Gospel.
No, of course He didn't. That qualifies Him to be Baptized. Whether you never sin or repent and stop sinning are the only way a Baptism will be genuine. You and everyone there will know too. Because God will very loudly confirm it from the sky. "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased."
If that didn't happen then you may want to have another look at your repentance.
Just sayin.
So baptism is not for sin forgiven. It is only a declaration or symbolism. Jesus didn't need forgiven yet baptized.
Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been (past tense with ongoing present results) saved through faith.. From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is neither "obtained" or "maintained" by works/is not based on the merits of our performance.
This really hits the nail on the head. I agree, Baptism is simply an outward reflection of an inward salvation. We see this in Paul's statement, which is nicely quoted above in the gentleman's post.
1 Peter 3:21
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
So I think it is clear here that Baptism is not necessary for salvation, but baptism is an act of obedience in relation to the clear command from the Lord himself to:
Matthew 28:19
Go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
The other point here that makes this clear in my mind is the thief on the cross. If we say baptism is necessary for salvation, we must then say if one is not baptized he or she cannot be saved. I want to take a look at a passage in the Old Testament as an example of what I believe God does with true faith and repentance.
Malachi 3:16
Then those who feared the LORD spoke with one another. The LORD paid attention and heard them, and a book of remembrance was written before him of those who feared the LORD and esteemed his name.
Is this the same book referenced in Psalm 56:8?
You have kept count of my tossings; put my tears in your bottle. Are they not in your book?
Daniel 7:10 also talks about the "books of God" which are obvious symbols of his divine omniscience.
Daniel 7:10
A stream of fire issued and came out from before him; a thousand thousands served him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him; the court sat in judgment, and the books were opened.
Then we have the issue of the thief on the cross who, having never been baptized, is promised to enter into heaven with no preconditions concerning being baptized.
Lastly, would not Paul have put a greater emphasis on baptism had it truly been a prerequisite for salvation?
1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
I think it is rather clear to me that the only thing necessary for salvation is Faith in the risen Lord Jesus Christ.
Yes, but It doesn't say father only call so many.
Do you believe the father randomly call people or there is or are qualification?
The only qualification I know is
John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
To me this verse mean the father call whosoever believe.
We can say allot about this, if we are to follow in Jesus footsteps, why don't we also get baptized. Jesus paved the way as an example to be baptized, is it a must? ... if Jesus did it .. why not..
who is to say that we should not be or don't have to be baptized to get your name written in the Book of Life... who is to say?
Jesus is our example.. it is Him we should Follow ..right .. Jesus did it.. so Follow Him.
who is to say that we should not be or don't have to be baptized to get your name written in the Book of Life... who is to say?
Jesus is our example.. it is Him we should Follow ..right .. Jesus did it.. so Follow Him.
Jesus was baptized not for the purpose to get His name written in the book of life. Jesus is the owner of that book and the owner of heaven and earth.
Jesus name may not written in the book of life but He is the King there.
Jesus didn't need to repent for He never sinned. Fact
Jesus didn't need to be forgiven. Fact
Jesus was Baptized. Fact
I think it is symbolic.
I don't think it is only symbolic.
I think it was necessary. That Jesus be Baptized.
And he was Baptized by a man born for that purpose.
The one calling in the dessert
Kind of important to note and consider.
One thing is for sure. If your sinning....
Your Baptism is not genuine. Not excepted by the Father.
Jesus was the example of a genuine Baptism.
For me it symbolizes the time after His return.
When we are raised. Born again by the Spirit.
Washed clean by His blood then led to living waters.
But it is not only symbolic. It also shows us that it is
not something that needs to be done to help in our
repentance, it is something that happens after a
a full genuine repentance is achieved and one is
no longer victim to the evils that surround us.
And that only happens when they are removed
and cast. As shown by history. Every one dies.
Therefore they were still sinning. For if one
could repent fully, he would never taste death.
"If you keep my commands, you will never taste death"
There is a reason for it though it may seem to not
make sense. and it only appears illogical because
of the false teachings and preconceived notions
that all modern Christians have.
He went as a non sinner to be Baptized.
practicing sinners are not Baptizable.
Or it would have been written like this.
Be Baptzied so the Holy Spirit can bless you
and lead you to repentance.
They were very well trained scholars in their dialects.
They wrote it correctly. Repent first, then be Baptized.
The Book of life was written and sealed since the beginning.
The end is known.
It was known before the Creation.
You again ignore the verse that says, "No one comes to me unless first called by the Father."
No one is truly saved while on a Earth that is ruled by the devil.
Few are chosen and not to be saved.
They are chosen to do Gods work.
Yet they are left to battle evil also for it is the lesson.
And even the chosen must learn it.
Free will requires that a choice be present.
The choice is always something different from Gods will.
Satan presents that's choice.
So you believe real or genuine baptism is when we are not sining, and death proof that we are sining, so real baptism happen after His return?
I think It is good analysis.
I can. Because it has been revealed to me.
And I have been chosen, as were the disciples
to preach the "Good News" as it was simply
preached in the beginning.
There is no line. God not G-d
C...,
Suggest you change bibles and study scriptures.
G-d is the one in charge of determining if you and I have met His standard of righteous.