That could just mean God knew us from conception, before were formed in the womb. Any parent can appoint their unborn child, from before conception even, to some career, and then train them up for it as they grow. after they are born. That language of Jer. 1:5 does not have to imply God knew Jeremiah before Jeremiah was conceived.
Is Anything Not Predestinated by God?
- Thread starter Solitude
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Blue155
Guest
well you could imply anything you want, even when you take into account Gods life exists in all mankind, you could imply he's refering to his life that he knows before hand, in which case he is implying it's his life he's refering to that he knows, seeing as his life is all knowing in every point of time, but anyhoo he knows the future past and present, as he's eternal with a far superior knowledge than any other life.
But you've had many more scriptures to show how people believe what they do about this matter, in another thread, then you imply them to mean something else, so I'm not about to post my beliefs and understandings of scripture just for you to turn them on there head. And not because I'm being rude, just thats what you'll do.
God knows everything that is true, so all that is past and present. including any of His specific past and present plans for the future. But most of the future is not yet settled and true, and God does not know as true what is not yet true.
To foreknow something or someone at a particular time simply means to have known that something or someone before that particular time. It does not intrinsically mean to know something or someone from the beginning of the world, or from before the beginning of the world.
He knows the future he knows the past he knows the present, you obviously can't grasp the simplicity of that,
He knew the day Paul would be filled with holy spirit before he was born,
Either he knows the future or he doesn't , Which is it.
He knows whose names will be in the book
He knows how many days you will live.
He knows the begining from the end
He knows how you will treat him.
He knows if your going to change
He knows
The Bible doesn't agree with you. God expected good grapes, but He saw wild grapes. He expected justice, but He was disappointed to find instead oppression. That does not describe God as knowing exactly what He was going to get for His investment in freewill creatures.
Isa 5:4
What more could have been done to My vineyard
That I have not done in it?
Why then, when I expected it to bring forth good grapes,
Did it bring forth wild grapes?
Isa 5:5
And now, please let Me tell you what I will do to My vineyard:
I will take away its hedge, and it shall be burned;
And break down its wall, and it shall be trampled down.
Isa 5:6
I will lay it waste;
It shall not be pruned or dug,
But there shall come up briers and thorns.
I will also command the clouds
That they rain no rain on it.”
Isa 5:7
For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel,
And the men of Judah are His pleasant plant.
He looked for justice, but behold, oppression;
For righteousness, but behold, a cry for help.
If God knew all that man would do, why would he be sorry that He had made man to do what He had planned man to do?
Gen 6:6
And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.
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Blue155
Guest
he thinks he identified a flaw in scripture that reveals God doesn't always know the future, but really he hasn't. All hes identified is how God sets the future in those instances or changes the future,
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Blue155
Guest
Dont know for sure, but I believe he left, probably he decided to do something new and out with the old lol
Pardon my observation, but that sounds like a bunch of gobbly gook that tries to limit God’s power to align with a particular human viewpoint.
Why would God bring animals to Adam to see what Adam would call them, if you claim He already knew what Adam would call them?
Gen 2:19
Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like you are contradicting yourself. Why would God change the future you claim He determined and knew would happen?
that's not a contradiction and neither have I claimed he predetermines your every action,
If he didn't change your futures you would be held captive by the wrong will.
Predetermining is not for-knowing
For-knowing is being able to see your whole life
Predetermining is making a decision based on that
Do you believe that God foreknew all things in the world's history before He created the world with its foreknown history? or do you believe that God only began to foreknow the world's history after He had initiated this world? Was God able to see your whole life before He created the world? or only after He created the world?
If he foreknew history before creating, then he choose to create this history, and therefore predetermined it.
if He foreknew history only after creating the world - "Oh, now that the starting array of atoms is here, I can see everything that is going develop from this starting point to this world I have made" - then He had no idea what He was making until after He had made it, and He is just passively watching the unfolding of a mostly unplanned history that He initiated without realising what it would become.
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Blue155
Guest
Well, obviously, God knew mankind was going to sin, otherwise what’s the point of Rev. 13:8 “…the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world”? As well as Ephesians 1:4ff (without the Calvinistic reading, of course).
No I believe what his word teaches with a life time of knowledge from my ancestry.
Biblical understandings more than suggest mankind is in a timeless perspective with God, where God is knowing the future, and how he chooses to change mankind's future he already knows,
Such as espesians 1:4 2 and all the other passages cited to you.
The simple understanding is God created a future in his image that mankind did not abide in,
And what he did with your time is beyond you, because his devine power which is eternal and holds all of time, is in his hands and he can do as he pleases with your time, whether or not your in his present time or his past time.
That phrase only indicates that God knew someone in mankind could sin, and the Son was prepared even from the beginning, to step in to attempt to redeem the sinner/s, if someone did. It does not indicate that it was God's intention that someone sin.
You believe a metaphysical understanding passed on traditions from Platonist ideas bleeding into the Church. You won't find any timeless realm mentioned in the Bible.
How can I be in God's present time or inHis past time, if you claim He is timeless?