Is Anything Not Predestinated by God?

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I fear you have misunderstood why I posted these early figures. They addressed to the best of their abilities some of the major questions that arose then - and continue to be discussed today. It was merely to show their understanding at an early point in Christian history.

Christ is my singular hero. We can learn from history if we put it in the proper perspective. Education and fluidity in various languages can be a great asset, or hindrance to zeroing in on truth.

I mean no rudeness in my remarks and hope the peace of God is your foundation. I will disengage from our conversation to avoid any further confusion.
 
Finally! Good. Now we have something to examine beyond your assertions.


Actually, this doesn't support your view the way you might think. God declares (through Isaiah) what He will do in response to Hezekiah's entreaty. That's not quite the same thing as "knowing the future".


The word is "divine". To "devine" is quite different. Also, you haven't actually provided any Scripture here.

Humans don't have divine nature in them. Those humans who have put their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation have the Holy Spirit within them and they are being slowly conformed to the nature of Christ, but that still doesn't mean "divine nature". It means "sanctification".
If you don't think the devine nature of God the father goes to work in a person first then you clearly don't have enough insight to grasp what is being said, and I'm not prepared to explain myself anymore to you, I've done enough explaining to you only to have all my explanations I've given you to be seen as absolutely nothing on way to many occasions. You haven't appreciated not one single bit of good knowledge I've given you. For that reason I'm not talking to you anymore.

I don't have to explain myself to somebody like you who keeps on imposing there views upon me, and twisting everything I say to mean something I'm not saying.

And I've had enough of all your insults today you have just about pushed my patience to limit, in my book you've mastered the art of being extremely awkward.
 
If you don't think the devine nature of God the father goes to work in a person first then you clearly don't have enough insight to grasp what is being said
The word is “divine”. I grasp that your ideas, like your spelling, are often wrong. This one certainly is.

You haven't appreciated not one single bit of good knowledge I've given you.
You haven’t given any “good knowledge”… at least not today.

For that reason I'm not talking to you anymore.
You seem to think that will bother me. It doesn’t, because I can continue to point out the errors in your posts without your insults in response.

I don't have to explain myself to somebody like you who keeps on imposing there views upon me, and twisting everything I say to mean something I'm not saying.
Twisting? Not at all. Nor am I imposing my views. I’m just telling you where you are objectively wrong, or being childish.

And I've had enough of all your insults today you have just about pushed my patience to limit, in my book you've mastered the art of being extremely awkward.
I certainly haven’t seen any evidence of patience. Rather, I see your childish insults towards anyone who disagrees with you. As for “awkward”, again, I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
 
The word is “divine”. I grasp that your ideas, like your spelling, are often wrong. This one certainly is.


You haven’t given any “good knowledge”… at least not today.


You seem to think that will bother me. It doesn’t, because I can continue to point out the errors in your posts without your insults in response.


Twisting? Not at all. Nor am I imposing my views. I’m just telling you where you are objectively wrong, or being childish.


I certainly haven’t seen any evidence of patience. Rather, I see your childish insults towards anyone who disagrees with you. As for “awkward”, again, I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
I don't care what you think anymore.

Your absolutely nothing to me anymore.

Goodbye I will not speak to you ever again hater
 
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So, this verse must be a lie, according to you.
Numbers 23:19
“God is not a man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind.”
No, it is true. However you are divorcing the verse from context to broaden its import to enable you to slip in your presupposition that God is absolutely immutable.

Balaam wanted to curse Israel. God made him bless Israel. Balak wanted Balaam to change God's decree. Balaam said that, in this case, God would not change His mind and God is not like men who can be pressured to change their minds on their decrees and make their previous decree untrue.
So, what Balaam is saying is.
"God is not a man (who can be bribed) for to lie, or a son of man (who can be bribed) for to change His mind. (Yahweh does accept gold or silver as offerings to manipulate His behaviour, as your Baals do. )"

And yes, that is true, without the verse being forced to infer that God is unable to ever change His mind, as the platonic doctrine of immutability presupposes and Christians who hold to that doctrine impose onto the verse..
 
No, it is true. However you are divorcing the verse from context to broaden its import to enable you to slip in your presupposition that God is absolutely immutable.

Balaam wanted to curse Israel. God made him bless Israel. Balak wanted Balaam to change God's decree. Balaam said that, in this case, God would not change His mind and God is not like men who can be pressured to change their minds on their decrees and make their previous decree untrue.
So, what Balaam is saying is.
"God is not a man (who can be bribed) for to lie, or a son of man (who can be bribed) for to change His mind. (Yahweh does accept gold or silver as offerings to manipulate His behaviour, as your Baals do. )"

And yes, that is true, without the verse being forced to infer that God is unable to ever change His mind, as the platonic doctrine of immutability presupposes and Christians who hold to that doctrine impose onto the verse..
OK- So I said I was out of the conversation, but then you posted a rebuttal. It is with this reply that I shall once again to state my position, and leave it at that.

What you get right:

1. Immediate narrative context

You are correct that Book of Numbers 23 occurs in a specific historical situation:
• Balak is attempting to coerce or bribe Balaam into cursing Israel.
• Balaam insists that Yahweh’s declared blessing cannot be reversed by political pressure, money, or ritual manipulation.
• The contrast is explicitly between Yahweh and pagan gods who were believed to be manipulable through offerings.

That is solid exegesis. The passage is polemical against divination-for-hire and bribery.

2. The verse does not explicitly define a metaphysical doctrine

Also correct:
• Numbers 23:19 is not written as a philosophical treatise on divine immutability.
• It does not use abstract ontological language (Greek-style being/essence categories).
• The verse’s primary force is ethical and covenantal: God keeps His word.

So the reply is right to resist reading the verse as “God can never respond, relent, or act differently in any circumstance whatsoever.”


Where your reply overreaches:

1. False dilemma: context vs. broader theology

The argument implies:

If the verse is contextual, it cannot support a broader theological truth.

That does not follow.

Biblical theology regularly works this way:
• A statement made in a concrete situation
• Reveals a general attribute of God’s character

Example:
• “God is not a man, that He should lie”
→ This does function universally across Scripture, not only in Balaam’s moment.

The reply acknowledges this partially (“No, it is true”), but then restricts the second clause more tightly than the text itself does.



2. Overstating the “bribery” gloss

The paraphrase:

“God is not a man (who can be bribed) …”

This idea is theologically true, but:
• The Hebrew text does not explicitly mention bribery
• The verb nacham (“relent/change”) is broader than “change due to bribery”

The bribery angle is implied by the narrative, not embedded in the grammar of the verse itself. That makes it a legitimate inference, but not the only valid reading.



3. Mischaracterizing classical immutability

The strongest inaccuracy is here:

“the platonic doctrine of immutability presupposes … God is unable to ever change His mind”

That is not what classical Jewish or Christian immutability teaches.

Historically:
• Immutability refers to God’s nature, character, and purposes
• It does not deny responsive action within time
• Classical theology has always allowed for:
• God relenting from announced judgment
• God responding to repentance
Anthropopathic language

In fact, Numbers 23:19 itself:
• Grounds God’s “unchanging” action in faithfulness, not rigidity
• “Has He spoken, and will He not fulfill it?”

So the reply sets up a straw version of immutability that few orthodox theologians actually hold.
 
With your view, you are allowing private interpretations.

Actually, @John146, what does 2 Peter 1:19-21 mean?

2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

It means is the following, IMHO.

It was the Holy Spirit who gave the scriptures and so it is the Holy Spirit's prerogative to interpret scripture and teach the disciple. We should not accept an interpretation merely because James or Peter taught it at some time in their ministry; or because Origen or Iranaeus or Augustine taught it. All human teachers make many mistakes in their teaching of the Bible. The Holy Spirit is the only reliable Teacher. The Bereans did not simply believe what Paul preached because Paul was a man of repute in the church. They searched the scriptures to see if the things Paul taught were so, and the Holy Spirit enlightened their reading to confirm Paul's interpretation of the texts he was citing.
Mat 23:8
“But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi'; for One is your Teacher, the Christ,[fn] and you are all brethren.
Mat 23:9
“Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.
Mat 23:10
“And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ.

People in this discussion who cite the names of particular men as evidence for the orthodoxy of an interpretation, because those taught such a theory, and then berate those who disagree with those men's opinions on those texts, are taking a private interpretation as authority, rather than presenting scripture and allowing the Holy Spirit to open those scriptures to others to confirm or deny their interpretations - they are the ones relying on private interpretations.

Those of us who are going to the scriptures and the Holy Spirit to evaluate so called "orthodox" assertions are the Bereans who are not relying on private interpretations, but on the Holy Spirit to interpret. We can show how we have derived our interpretation from the text (Hebrew. Aramaic and Greek). Sectarians in this discussion have not been able explain to us exactly how they get their theories from the texts, because they are simply accepting the private interpretation of those texts by Augustine or someone else, and are not being enlightened by the Holy Spirit to understand the texts.and explain them.

The word heresy comes from the Greek word haireO, I choose. Heterodoxy, which is arriving at different understanding., is not the same as heresy. Some heterodoxies are occurring because individuals are relying on the Holy Spirit to interpret scripture, and they understand a text differently from others. And some heterodoxies occur because men are trying to create for themselves a fan club that they can influence and manipulate. Those trying to get Christians to choose a particular teacher or school of teachers are the actual heretics who divide the body of Christ into competing factions, instead of a single body where each person is encouraged to learn to hear Christ's voice and to follow Christ and be taught by Him how to to love God and others.

So, when Peter says that no scripture is of private interpretation, he is not against Berean searching of scriptures to check whether a "Bible teacher", even a renowned "Bible teacher", is correct, and perhaps coming to a different conclusion than the "teacher" has. He is saying we need to be careful not to accept an explanation from someone (a private person) but to go to the Word and the Holy Spirit for their revelation, and we should go with what the Holy Spirit, the Author, shows us, even if others call our understanding unorthodox or heresy.
 
So, my answer to you is no, predestination does not encourage you to consign your fate to the winds. Predetermination is principally God's call, and predestination is Golgotha -- believers go there to be judged.
 
No, it is true. However you are divorcing the verse from context to broaden its import to enable you to slip in your presupposition that God is absolutely immutable.

Balaam wanted to curse Israel. God made him bless Israel. Balak wanted Balaam to change God's decree. Balaam said that, in this case, God would not change His mind and God is not like men who can be pressured to change their minds on their decrees and make their previous decree untrue.
So, what Balaam is saying is.
"God is not a man (who can be bribed) for to lie, or a son of man (who can be bribed) for to change His mind. (Yahweh does accept gold or silver as offerings to manipulate His behaviour, as your Baals do. )"

And yes, that is true, without the verse being forced to infer that God is unable to ever change His mind, as the platonic doctrine of immutability presupposes and Christians who hold to that doctrine impose onto the verse..
Oops!

'So, what Balaam is saying is.
"God is not a man (who can be bribed) for to lie, or a son of man (who can be bribed) for to change His mind. (Yahweh does accept gold or silver as offerings to manipulate His behaviour, as your Baals do. )" ' -
should actually say
' So, what Balaam is saying is.
"God is not a man (who can be bribed) for to lie, or a son of man (who can be bribed) for to change His mind. (Yahweh does not accept gold or silver as offerings to manipulate His behaviour, as your Baals do. )"
 
Oops!

'So, what Balaam is saying is.
"God is not a man (who can be bribed) for to lie, or a son of man (who can be bribed) for to change His mind. (Yahweh does accept gold or silver as offerings to manipulate His behaviour, as your Baals do. )" ' -
should actually say
' So, what Balaam is saying is.
"God is not a man (who can be bribed) for to lie, or a son of man (who can be bribed) for to change His mind. (Yahweh does not accept gold or silver as offerings to manipulate His behaviour, as your Baals do. )"
Yo there what do you mean yaw-whey again? Do you know that is not appropriate language for saying the Lord's Name?

FYI "yeh-VAH" as in "the Lord"
 
No it appears the conversation took a turn from using the Lord's Name casually to a diatribe on bribes. You do know what bribes are, right?

It's like paper money that's been glued together dude.

Oh and reason? You're touching a nerve and I need you to know, there is a word for that and it's not very nice to just say. "Taking money from the church". Careful there
 
No it appears the conversation took a turn from using the Lord's Name casually to a diatribe on bribes. You do know what bribes are, right?
It appears you continue to say things about me to which I never said. You do know that’s not good, right?
 
No, I disagree with you on that too. By the way, the word Yahweh means "gatekeeper". So, that's not really the Name of the Lord, that is the meaning in Hebrew of the Lord's vocation.
 
No, I disagree with you on that too. By the way, the word Yahweh means "gatekeeper". So, that's not really the Name of the Lord, that is the meaning in Hebrew of the Lord's vocation.
God Himself said in Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

Psalm 83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Who am I to say otherwise?
 
I don't know. I don't see anywhere in the Bible profaning the Lord's advocacy by telling him to spell his name out. Maybe you should ask about the name of the Spirit.

That language would have you go to contempt of court in Germany if you really did offer bribes.