Is abortion murder?

[Demi777]

ok I agree with that and one is too many concerning that area that is why we should allow a deeper study in to why this happens and stop it. instead of running around with murder signs and wasting energy. But if you made abortion illegal triple the number that would be left in ally ways for dead and would be handicapped for life. I live in the city and thousands of children left in abandoned houses and full of disease born addicted starving and all the pro live folks up the street eating steak. But they got their murder sign with them.
It is a sad situation all around on both sides. HEY MAYBE IF WE SET OR DIFFERENCES ASIDE AND COME TOGETHER FOR A REAL SOLUTION WE WOULD BE DOING SOMETHING FOR REAL.

I never said make abortion illegal. Here in germany we barely have issues of abortions bcause contraception is free until 18 and cheap until 21
Plus our abortion laws are much stricter than in the US

 

[Dem]

I never said make abortion illegal. Here in germany we barely have issues of abortions bcause contraception is free until 18 and cheap until 21
Plus our abortion laws are much stricter than in the US

Plus you have government health care which is a great thing. I pay 1,000 a month for health care and if we had kids it would be double. I am a fan of putting more common sense restriction on abortion here in the us.
May the Lord Bless you and Keep you.

 

[Demi777]

Plus you have government health care which is a great thing. I pay 1,000 a month for health care and if we had kids it would be double. I am a fan of putting more common sense restriction on abortion here in the us.
May the Lord Bless you and Keep you.

Well still u pay health care yourself as soon as u start working. Its not as bad as a 1000 but it certainly aint cheap. And rhe system started crashing (healthcare and social securit) because we have many older people and barelyI young. Its just a matter of time until it breaks completely

 

[Dem]

they tell us that in america SS is going broke simple solution make the cap on income flexible. in hard times raise the cap on the amount of taxable income, when they are good lower the cap its simple but we have a select group that will give corporations billions of dollars more a year in tax breaks then threaten to cut our SS . Don't believe all that gun ho stuff about America, they are no longer for the people by the people they are for the corporations by the corporations. Oh well the word says it will be like this.

 

[Ugly]

It's a pretty good excuse alright, especially when underage pregnancy is involved or giving mercy to an unborn child with severe genetic birth defects that will be nothing in constant agony with little to no brain function and constant seizure that will cause it to have even more brain damage than ever. Plus after the parents remove their rose-coloured glasses, they will drop it off at an adult care center for the mentally handicapped possibly to be never mentioned again or barely visited at all. Oh yeah, btw some people purposely have retarded babies for e-fame and media attention and to boost off their narcissistic egos over the suffering of their children who will be used as cash cows.

Got it. Sin is not a sin if its convenient to do it. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[mcubed]

the LXX, targum and Josephus dont agree with that translation.
LXX
22 And if two men strive and smite a woman with child, and her child be born imperfectly formed, he shall be forced to pay a penalty: as the woman’s husband may lay upon him, he shall pay with a valuation. 23 But if it be perfectly formed, he shall give life for life,

ETHERIDGE ’S TARGUM PARAPHRASE 3
“If men when striving strike a woman with child, and cause her to miscarry, but not to lose her life , the fine on account of the infant which the husband of the woman shall lay up on him , he shall pay according to the sentence of the judges. But if death befall her , then thou shalt judge the life of the killer for the life of the woman .”

Josephus:
“He that kicks a pregnant woman, if the woman miscarry, shall be fined by the judges for having, by the destruction of the fruit of her womb, diminished the population, and a further sum shall be presented by him to the woman’s husband. If she die by the blow, he shall also die, the law claiming sacrifice of life for life. 8

This is great, ETHERIDGE ’S TARGUM PARAPHRASE 3 and Josephus backs me up... and mankind demands a payment if the population is diminished by killing the fruit of the womb ... So G-d makes it criminal and Josephus makes it civil!!! and that ETHERIDGE ’S TARGUM PARAPHRASE 3

Thank you for helping my argument!!!

 

[Clear_River]

Ugly

Thanks for clearing it up that you are a plaster saint.

 

[jaybird88]

This is great, ETHERIDGE ’S TARGUM PARAPHRASE 3 and Josephus backs me up... and mankind demands a payment if the population is diminished by killing the fruit of the womb ... So G-d makes it criminal and Josephus makes it civil!!! and that ETHERIDGE ’S TARGUM PARAPHRASE 3

Thank you for helping my argument!!!

i think you might have read the wrong post, because you said before it was murder and life for life. all three of these say its criminal and you pay a fine. criminal yes, murder, not according to these passages.
LXX places different forms of punishment according to the growth of the unborn child. one is a fine, one is a life.

 

[mcubed]

i think you might have read the wrong post, because you said before it was murder and life for life. all three of these say its criminal and you pay a fine. criminal yes, murder, not according to these passages.
LXX places different forms of punishment according to the growth of the unborn child. one is a fine, one is a life.

NOPE DIDN'T READ IT WRONG.... MANS THOUGHTS EXPANDS UPON G-D'S.... UNLESS YOU ARE SAYING WHAT MAN HAS TO SAY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN G-D!?!

Could you clarify... Whose words are more important... correct ... Man's or G-d's?

 

[jaybird88]

NOPE DIDN'T READ IT WRONG.... MANS THOUGHTS EXPANDS UPON G-D'S.... UNLESS YOU ARE SAYING WHAT MAN HAS TO SAY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN G-D!?!

Could you clarify... Whose words are more important... correct ... Man's or G-d's?

your not making any sense.


LXX
22 And if two men strive and smite a woman with child, and her child be born imperfectly formed, he shall be forced to pay a penalty: as the woman’s husband may lay upon him, he shall pay with a valuation. 23 But if it be perfectly formed, he shall give life for life,

here the LXX places a difference on fully formed and not fully formed. if not fully formed it does not view it as a living soul. if it is fully formed and dies in birth its life for life. the 2nd clause disagree with my thoughts on it because i believe life begins at breath. i am happy to admit that because i am trying to get the truth and not twist them to fit an agenda


ETHERIDGE ’S TARGUM PARAPHRASE 3
“If men when striving strike a woman with child, and cause her to miscarry, but not to lose her life , the fine on account of the infant which the husband of the woman shall lay up on him , he shall pay according to the sentence of the judges. But if death befall her , then thou shalt judge the life of the killer for the life of the woman .”

targum says life for life for the woman. no mention of life for life for the unborn child.

Josephus:
“He that kicks a pregnant woman, if the woman miscarry, shall be fined by the judges for having, by the destruction of the fruit of her womb, diminished the population, and a further sum shall be presented by him to the woman’s husband. If she die by the blow, he shall also die, the law claiming sacrifice of life for life. 8

Josephus says a fine to be payed for the lost fruit of the womb, and life for life for the women if she dies.

words of the Most High are greater than mans. not sure what that has to do with what we are talking about??

 

[mcubed]

your not making any sense.


LXX
22 And if two men strive and smite a woman with child, and her child be born imperfectly formed, he shall be forced to pay a penalty: as the woman’s husband may lay upon him, he shall pay with a valuation. 23 But if it be perfectly formed, he shall give life for life,

here the LXX places a difference on fully formed and not fully formed. if not fully formed it does not view it as a living soul. if it is fully formed and dies in birth its life for life. the 2nd clause disagree with my thoughts on it because i believe life begins at breath. i am happy to admit that because i am trying to get the truth and not twist them to fit an agenda


ETHERIDGE ’S TARGUM PARAPHRASE 3
“If men when striving strike a woman with child, and cause her to miscarry, but not to lose her life , the fine on account of the infant which the husband of the woman shall lay up on him , he shall pay according to the sentence of the judges. But if death befall her , then thou shalt judge the life of the killer for the life of the woman .”

targum says life for life for the woman. no mention of life for life for the unborn child.

Josephus:
“He that kicks a pregnant woman, if the woman miscarry, shall be fined by the judges for having, by the destruction of the fruit of her womb, diminished the population, and a further sum shall be presented by him to the woman’s husband. If she die by the blow, he shall also die, the law claiming sacrifice of life for life. 8

Josephus says a fine to be payed for the lost fruit of the womb, and life for life for the women if she dies.

words of the Most High are greater than mans. not sure what that has to do with what we are talking about??

ok... I will re-quote the post you quoted me on....

The famous Scripture, (always miss quoted) eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, is for injured a pregnant woman and the CHILD DIES. Exodus 21:22-24 and even calls for foot for foot. Is abortion murder is not a political issue but a G-dly one. Our legal system has failed children, ESPECIALLY CHILDREN IN UTERO... CHILDREN!!!! G-d speaks LOUD AND CLEAR FOR THE UNBORN!!!!

Ehat does G-d have to say about MONEY?

 

[jaybird88]

ok... I will re-quote the post you quoted me on....

The famous Scripture, (always miss quoted) eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, is for injured a pregnant woman and the CHILD DIES. Exodus 21:22-24 and even calls for foot for foot. Is abortion murder is not a political issue but a G-dly one. Our legal system has failed children, ESPECIALLY CHILDREN IN UTERO... CHILDREN!!!! G-d speaks LOUD AND CLEAR FOR THE UNBORN!!!!

Ehat does G-d have to say about MONEY?

Money??? what are you going on about lol? i would say money makes us do shameful things.

here is the passage, ESV version

22 “When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

lets start over on this one, the passage says life for life, whos life?

 

[mcubed]

Money??? what are you going on about lol? i would say money makes us do shameful things.

here is the passage, ESV version

22 “When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

lets start over on this one, the passage says life for life, whos life?

No according to you... Joshephas and the other site you quoted...The killer has to pay money to the husband....

Let me Quote you....
the LXX, targum and Josephus dont agree with that translation.
LXX
22 And if two men strive and smite a woman with child, and her child be born imperfectly formed, he shall be forced to pay a penalty: as the woman’s husband may lay upon him, he shall pay with a valuation. 23 But if it be perfectly formed, he shall give life for life,

ETHERIDGE ’S TARGUM PARAPHRASE 3
“If men when striving strike a woman with child, and cause her to miscarry, but not to lose her life , the fine on account of the infant which the husband of the woman shall lay up on him , he shall pay according to the sentence of the judges. But if death befall her , then thou shalt judge the life of the killer for the life of the woman .”

Josephus:
“He that kicks a pregnant woman, if the woman miscarry, shall be fined by the judges for having, by the destruction of the fruit of her womb, diminished the population, and a further sum shall be presented by him to the woman’s husband. If she die by the blow, he shall also die, the law claiming sacrifice of life for life. 8

 

[jaybird88]

No according to you... Joshephas and the other site you quoted...The killer has to pay money to the husband....

Let me Quote you....
the LXX, targum and Josephus dont agree with that translation.
LXX
22 And if two men strive and smite a woman with child, and her child be born imperfectly formed, he shall be forced to pay a penalty: as the woman’s husband may lay upon him, he shall pay with a valuation. 23 But if it be perfectly formed, he shall give life for life,

ETHERIDGE ’S TARGUM PARAPHRASE 3
“If men when striving strike a woman with child, and cause her to miscarry, but not to lose her life , the fine on account of the infant which the husband of the woman shall lay up on him , he shall pay according to the sentence of the judges. But if death befall her , then thou shalt judge the life of the killer for the life of the woman .”

Josephus:
“He that kicks a pregnant woman, if the woman miscarry, shall be fined by the judges for having, by the destruction of the fruit of her womb, diminished the population, and a further sum shall be presented by him to the woman’s husband. If she die by the blow, he shall also die, the law claiming sacrifice of life for life. 8

umm yes? they payed money (fine) they didnt pay with their life.
still not following what your getting at.

 

[mcubed]

umm yes? they payed money (fine) they didnt pay with their life.
still not following what your getting at.

Yeah... that is what man said... Not G-d....

Why do you think to murder a child in the womb is not murder?

And you have NEVER ADDRESSED G-D!?!....

Did your woman or ex-woman have an abortion?

 

[jaybird88]

Yeah... that is what man said... Not G-d....

ok?? so now we have two men, reading the word of the Most High, and coming up with two different things. i never said the quotes were the Most High, just giving you two respectible witnesses that support my view.

Why do you think to murder a child in the womb is not murder?

i think life begins at breath, adom was fromed in the earth, was complete when he breathed, we are formed in the womb, complete when we breath.

And you have NEVER ADDRESSED G-D!?!....

no idea what this means.

Did your woman or ex-woman have an abortion?

i dont know anyone that has had an abortion, they are frowned upon where i live.

 

[Enocish]

For a Christian is this really a question. Making a decision between right and wrong is not judging someone. Just asking.

 

[Dem]

For a Christian is this really a question. Making a decision between right and wrong is not judging someone. Just asking.

I guess its all in what you think is right and wrong in this matter. Thats why I leave it in Gods hands He is the judge.

 

[Enocish]

I guess its all in what you think is right and wrong in this matter. Thats why I leave it in Gods hands He is the judge.

Thats my point Gods word already tells us the answer, It is not all in what you think, You either choose to follow Gods word or you don't. This is not the Every man does whats right in his own eyes time period. that was the time of the judges time period. those days are long gone. Just sayin.

 

[jaybird88]

Thats my point Gods word already tells us the answer, It is not all in what you think, You either choose to follow Gods word or you don't. This is not the Every man does whats right in his own eyes time period. that was the time of the judges time period. those days are long gone. Just sayin.

i think most everyone agrees its wrong, the question was is it murder. some dont believe its right to re define life to fit political agendas.